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Thread: Vancouver OC Arrest

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Vancouver OC Arrest

    Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN3ehYJ3NMA

    Off Topic, yes maybe, something to keep an eye on for sure.
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 07-01-2013 at 01:17 PM.
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    So they don't have the courage to confront a large OC crowd last year at the Peace and Justice festival, yet they always go for the lone ones. Pathetic.

  3. #3
    Regular Member jhfc's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting this.

    I get the sense the Vancouver PD is not at all friendly to OC. I'm aware of at least two cases where the charges appeared trumped up and ridiculous and now, here is a third.

    From those with experience, what can we do to exercise our right to carry and be free from LEO harassment?

    It's infuriating to think the local government can ignore the law and actively work to trample our rights just because they "don't like it".

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhfc View Post
    Thanks for posting this.

    I get the sense the Vancouver PD is not at all friendly to OC. I'm aware of at least two cases where the charges appeared trumped up and ridiculous and now, here is a third.

    From those with experience, what can we do to exercise our right to carry and be free from LEO harassment?

    It's infuriating to think the local government can ignore the law and actively work to trample our rights just because they "don't like it".
    This happened five minutes from my house....... There are local reports that the VPD has been instructed to make people that open carry "Miserable" I say the best thing to do is open carry as often as possible until the judges in Clark county get tired of trumped up charges and finally slap the VPD down.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Open Carry Flash Mob

    The way to defeat the ignorance is to display insurmountable stregnth and agility to the po-po. 20 or 30 open carriers coming together and breaking apart using flash mob assembly techniques would be a very nice first class for those that abuse a disabled veteran.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    The way to defeat the ignorance is to display insurmountable stregnth and agility to the po-po. 20 or 30 open carriers coming together and breaking apart using flash mob assembly techniques would be a very nice first class for those that abuse a disabled veteran.
    He has a hearing tomorrow at 8:30, Clark County court house, as many people as possible should show up for support of this disabled Vet. there are lockers to secure fireams.

    Russ

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    This happened five minutes from my house....... There are local reports that the VPD has been instructed to make people that open carry "Miserable" I say the best thing to do is open carry as often as possible until the judges in Clark county get tired of trumped up charges and finally slap the VPD down.
    If it is official policy, then it would be a violation of Title 18, Chapter 13, Section 241 of the US Code -- Conspiracy against rights. That there is a federal level felony and the entire chain of command might be guilty. Perhaps a complaint to the FBI or DOJ is in order?


    http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/crm/241fin.php
    Last edited by Difdi; 07-01-2013 at 09:16 PM.

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    Regular Member jhfc's Avatar
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    Someone needs to get all of the communications and dash cam video as well before it disappears.

    Can anyone do this or only involved parties?

    Can FOIA be used to determine if the VPD does have marching orders to make life miserable for OCers?

    What is the correct legal approach to get them to behave themselves?

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    If it is official policy, then it would be a violation of Title 18, Chapter 13, Section 241 of the US Code -- Conspiracy against rights. That there is a federal level felony and the entire chain of command might be guilty. Perhaps a complaint to the FBI or DOJ is in order?


    http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/crm/241fin.php
    Great legal theory, the problem will be getting Jenny Durhkan to care about your open carry rights. And that's assuming the FBI will even exert the effort to return your letter.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Great legal theory, the problem will be getting Jenny Durhkan to care about your open carry rights. And that's assuming the FBI will even exert the effort to return your letter.
    You're absolutely right. We should turn in our guns immediately and tear up our CPLs. After all, expecting that those people sworn to uphold the law would actually keep their oaths is stupid.

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhfc View Post
    Someone needs to get all of the communications and dash cam video as well before it disappears.
    Can anyone do this or only involved parties?
    Anyone can make a PDR. But, if it is an open case, they'll likely tell you, "No."

    Can FOIA be used to determine if the VPD does have marching orders to make life miserable for OCers?
    One can ask. Do you really think they'll tell you? It's highly unlikely that there is an "official" policy directing them to violate peoples civil rights.

    What is the correct legal approach to get them to behave themselves?
    Ask nicely. When they say no, sue 'em.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    For those of you who have asked, the Washington Rules of Professional Conduct state:

    RPC RULE 7.3
    DIRECT CONTACT WITH PROSPECTIVE CLIENTS

    (a) A lawyer shall not directly or through a third person, by in-person,
    live telephone, or real-time electronic contact solicit professional
    employment from a prospective client when a significant motive for the
    lawyer's doing so is the lawyer's pecuniary gain, unless the person contacted:

    (1) is a lawyer;

    (2) has a family, close personal, or prior professional relationship
    with the lawyer; or

    (3) has consented to the contact by requesting a referral from a not-
    for-profit lawyer referral service.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    If it is official policy, then it would be a violation of Title 18, Chapter 13, Section 241 of the US Code -- Conspiracy against rights. That there is a federal level felony and the entire chain of command might be guilty. Perhaps a complaint to the FBI or DOJ is in order?


    http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/crm/241fin.php
    A Monell claim in US District Court would likely be more effective.

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    Looks like KATU News did a piece on it today: http://www.katu.com/news/local/open-...?tab=video&c=y

    Open Carry Vancouver replied: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeXV...ZZPwLPPOtRc1Pw

    The news got the laws a bit wrong and twisted the story. It really sounds like he didn't break any laws...

  15. #15
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    since no one else has posted yet... he Open Carried an AR rifle......
    Last edited by Bill Starks; 07-02-2013 at 11:27 PM.

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Here is Komo:

    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/O...214093571.html

    Looks mostly right on the laws, though I wonder how someone gets trespassed if they aren't at the property and they left when they were asked to.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Re: Vancouver OC Arrest

    Ah, Vancouver PD...

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhfc View Post
    From those with experience, what can we do to exercise our right to carry and be free from LEO harassment?.
    Take them to court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    ... I say the best thing to do is open carry as often as possible.....
    This is Truth!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    The way to defeat the ignorance is to display insurmountable stregnth and agility ......
    This is Truth!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    though I wonder how someone gets trespassed if they aren't at the property and they left when they were asked to.
    This way......
    Tuesday morning, Worley pleaded not guilty to a charge of trespassing with a weapon capable of producing bodily harm. Police said he first went to a Burgerville restaurant with a rifle slung over his shoulder. An employee called 911.
    Vancouver police spokeswoman Kim Kapp said a security guard told Worley to leave and called police when he didn’t.
    By the time police arrived, Kapp said Worley had walked to a fireworks stand in the Big Al’s parking lot. Employees closed the stand because they were worried about what Worley was up to. An employee at Big Al’s called 911 while the business went into lockdown.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  19. #19
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Take them to court.



    This is Truth!!



    This is Truth!



    This way......
    Tuesday morning, Worley pleaded not guilty to a charge of trespassing with a weapon capable of producing bodily harm. Police said he first went to a Burgerville restaurant with a rifle slung over his shoulder. An employee called 911.
    Vancouver police spokeswoman Kim Kapp said a security guard told Worley to leave and called police when he didn’t.
    By the time police arrived, Kapp said Worley had walked to a fireworks stand in the Big Al’s parking lot. Employees closed the stand because they were worried about what Worley was up to. An employee at Big Al’s called 911 while the business went into lockdown.
    If he didn't leave, why was he not still there when the police arrived?

  20. #20
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    Sounds like this whole thing maybe hinges on him re-entering property he was ejected from, just to get his car which was parked on said property. I'm not aware of any "I just need to get my car" exemptions to our state's trespass laws.

    My heart is with this guy, but I think we need to keep all possibilities in mind here . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Can someone tell me where "trespassing with a weapon capable of producing bodily harm" appears in the RCW?
    That was my thought as well.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    So who all did not catch that he was OCing a RIFLE? While I understand the isn't much legal difference between OC with a handgun and a rifle, carrying a loaded (or unloaded) AR15 slung at low ready in Vancouver is going to start all kinds of trouble.

  23. #23
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Carrying a rifle in public versus in a rally (where public may well expect to see them being carried) may cause alarm and where things can go afoul, in this case it did.

    Combining the mall and school shootings where a single or a few people have killed and harmed several people and created a fear into today's society.

    When it comes to a private business banning firearms in their business or property is just as everyone in here can restrict access to their homes with someone walking up their walkway with a rifle slung over their shoulders.
    One can tell someone to leave their property with any interaction more then telling them to leave, you don't then it is trespass.

    While this youngman had good intentions but has done more harm to those who carry a pistol or revolver openly by carrying a rifle and may well meet the restrictions in;

    RCW 9.41.270
    Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Can someone tell me where "trespassing with a weapon capable of producing bodily harm" appears in the RCW?
    Doesn't. He would have to be charged with 2 different crimes: trespass and unlawful display.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    So who all did not catch that he was OCing a RIFLE? While I understand the isn't much legal difference between OC with a handgun and a rifle, carrying a loaded (or unloaded) AR15 slung at low ready in Vancouver is going to start all kinds of trouble.
    Display of a rifle is a tricky beast. In State v. Spencer, 75 Wn. App. 118, 121 (1994), Spencer was convicted for carrying a rifle (AK-47) in “a hostile, assaultive type manner with the weapon ready.”

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Carrying a rifle in public versus in a rally (where public may well expect to see them being carried) may cause alarm and where things can go afoul, in this case it did.

    Combining the mall and school shootings where a single or a few people have killed and harmed several people and created a fear into today's society.

    When it comes to a private business banning firearms in their business or property is just as everyone in here can restrict access to their homes with someone walking up their walkway with a rifle slung over their shoulders.
    One can tell someone to leave their property with any interaction more then telling them to leave, you don't then it is trespass.

    While this youngman had good intentions but has done more harm to those who carry a pistol or revolver openly by carrying a rifle and may well meet the restrictions in [RCW 9.41.270(1)].
    I agree, provided only that he had the weapon "at ready." Otherwise, it's a bit too close to call without knowing all the facts.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

  25. #25
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    Otherwise, it's a bit too close to call without knowing all the facts.


    But that's not how we do it at OCDO-WA. Come on, this isn't your first rodeo.

    At OCDO-WA, we gather only one side of the story, dismiss out-of-hand all attempt to tell the other side, and from there we proceed!

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