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Thread: Illinois Governor vetoes parts of concealed carry gun bill

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Illinois Governor vetoes parts of concealed carry gun bill

    http://news.yahoo.com/illinois-gover...193038993.html

    Illinois Governor Pat Quinn on Tuesday vetoed parts of a concealed-carry gun bill that would have allowed the carrying of more than one gun, carrying guns into some places that serve alcohol, and the carrying of a partly exposed gun.
    On noes, OC is soooo bad...
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    It's what I expected, he is expecting that SCOTUS will overturn the circuit court ruling on appeal. I also suspect SCOTUS will overturn the ruling.
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    Was in Illinois recently and visited a few gun stores ... its a madhouse there

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    he didn't really veto parts of the bill, he did an "amended veto" and CHANGED parts of the bill as passed.

    ISRA is pretty fired up, as is the CCRKBA. I wrote about it in my Examiner column this afternoon:

    Ill. Governor Quinn sets stage for CCW confrontation
    http://www.examiner.com/article/ill-...-confrontation

    This is going to get rather interesting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    he didn't really veto parts of the bill, he did an "amended veto" and CHANGED parts of the bill as passed.

    ISRA is pretty fired up, as is the CCRKBA. I wrote about it in my Examiner column this afternoon:

    Ill. Governor Quinn sets stage for CCW confrontation
    http://www.examiner.com/article/ill-...-confrontation

    This is going to get rather interesting...
    He tried an amended veto on an ammunition bill, turning it into an AWB bill. His veto was overridden on that bill and I expect it to be on this one as well. I can't see him getting 19 reps in the house to change their vote so it isn't overridden. I also don't expect the Southern Illinois rep and state senator sponsoring the bills to go along with is amendments.

    He's pandering to his Chicago area supporters hoping to get reelected.

    If his veto isn't overridden its "court carry" and July 10 open carry of any firearm you like will be legal,(well almost still no class 3) unless some local ordinance prohibits it. The CC bill does have preemption in it so no local firearms ordinances on carry when it passes.

    The legislature will be in special session on July 9, so expect it to go into regular session that day and override his veto.

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    Re: Illinois Governor vetoes parts of concealed carry gun bill

    What Junglebob said. This isn't working out so well for Quinn. Remember that once HB183 is over ridden and becomes law that we lose in any case. This is a Chicago carry ( no carry ) bill. We lose if we win.

    Carthago Delenda Est
    Last edited by kurt555gs; 07-03-2013 at 11:36 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by junglebob View Post
    He tried an amended veto on an ammunition bill, turning it into an AWB bill. His veto was overridden on that bill and I expect it to be on this one as well. I can't see him getting 19 reps in the house to change their vote so it isn't overridden. I also don't expect the Southern Illinois rep and state senator sponsoring the bills to go along with is amendments.

    He's pandering to his Chicago area supporters hoping to get reelected.

    If his veto isn't overridden its "court carry" and July 10 open carry of any firearm you like will be legal,(well almost still no class 3) unless some local ordinance prohibits it. The CC bill does have preemption in it so no local firearms ordinances on carry when it passes.

    The legislature will be in special session on July 9, so expect it to go into regular session that day and override his veto.
    (my bold)

    I don't get your assertion - if his veto is not overridden, why doesn't the law he signed (with adjustments) stand?

    ??

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    I think everyone is mis-characterizing this "amended veto". I believe it is simply a veto with suggestions to the legislature what the language would need to be to in order to get his signature the next time it's passed.

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    Re: Illinois Governor vetoes parts of concealed carry gun bill

    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    (my bold)

    I don't get your assertion - if his veto is not overridden, why doesn't the law he signed (with adjustments) stand?

    ??
    As I understand it he hasn't 'signed' anything into law at this point. He made suggestions to the legislature and sent the bill back. If they don't revote on the changed bill by July 10th then the previous injunction from the judge takes effect and there is no more state law on CC, therefore you now have Constitutional Carry by default. (Until a new law finally is signed)

    He can't make changes to a law and let the bill sit on his desk till it becomes law, the changes must be voted on.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baked on Grease View Post
    As I understand it he hasn't 'signed' anything into law at this point. He made suggestions to the legislature and sent the bill back. If they don't revote on the changed bill by July 10th then the previous injunction from the judge takes effect and there is no more state law on CC, therefore you now have Constitutional Carry by default. (Until a new law finally is signed)

    He can't make changes to a law and let the bill sit on his desk till it becomes law, the changes must be voted on.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    That is the way I understand it, but I was not sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baked on Grease View Post
    As I understand it he hasn't 'signed' anything into law at this point. He made suggestions to the legislature and sent the bill back. If they don't revote on the changed bill by July 10th then the previous injunction from the judge takes effect and there is no more state law on CC, therefore you now have Constitutional Carry by default. (Until a new law finally is signed)

    He can't make changes to a law and let the bill sit on his desk till it becomes law, the changes must be voted on.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    Now the other problem is that there is no preemption in Ill. So localities are free to pass whatever restrictions they want.

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    http://www.examiner.com/article/gove...simultaneously

    The amendatory veto process is a power granted to Illinois governors allowing them to make changes to bills that have passed. If a simple majority in each chamber accepts the governor's changes, the altered bill becomes law. If three fifths of each chamber (36 of the state's 59 senators, and 71 of the 118 representatives) vote to override the veto, the original bill becomes law. If neither happens, the bill is dead.


    I would let the bill die ... die you bill, die !

    Don't vote ! Or vote against the veto amendments but not by a 3/5th majority.

    So folks who support constitutional carry could vote FOR the amended bill to keep the % below what is needed to override but not enough to approve?

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Thanks to Baked on Grease, WalkingWolf, notalawyer, and (I can't believe I'm doing this) davidmcbeth for the information about what the actual "veto" is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Thanks to Baked on Grease, WalkingWolf, notalawyer, and (I can't believe I'm doing this) davidmcbeth for the information about what the actual "veto" is.
    Your welcome ... now get on your phone and start calling reps ... this bill should be dead ! Allow constitutional carry !

    (Who cares about chicago at this point in time)

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Your welcome ... now get on your phone and start calling reps ... this bill should be dead ! Allow constitutional carry !

    (Who cares about chicago at this point in time)
    It's "you're" welcome, and I don't think the reps will pay any attention to someone from my location - which is clearly visible by my name, btw.
    Last edited by BB62; 07-03-2013 at 02:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Now the other problem is that there is no preemption in Ill. So localities are free to pass whatever restrictions they want.
    BUT local, state, and federal judges can strike them down if they do not meet the muster of the injunction. IOW Chicago if it passes it's own laws, they STILL will have to allow some form of carry. I only see Chicago and Springfield doing that, Cook county might also, but I am not so sure about Sangamon county.

    The law abiding citizens need to leave those places in Illinois and let those cities collapse.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-03-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    BUT local, state, and federal judges can strike them down if they do not meet the muster of the injunction. IOW Chicago if it passes it's own laws, they STILL will have to allow some form of carry. I only see Chicago and Springfield doing that, Cook county might also, but I am not so sure about Sangamon county.

    The law abiding citizens need to leave those places in Illinois and let those cities collapse.
    Yep, but people will still be arrested and likely prosecuted and it will take a year or two to get each one of these new laws before a court of appeals.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Yep, but people will still be arrested and likely prosecuted and it will take a year or two to get each one of these new laws before a court of appeals.
    But this is what we get from orgs like NRA, and ISRA "baby steps". IMO this whole court ruling was made a fiasco because the supposed 2A orgs were scared poopless that OC would get a foot hold. A law that guaranteed constitutional rights would cut into their bottom line.

    Ever wonder why we hear so little from Alaska, and Vermont?
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    But this is what we get from orgs like NRA, and ISRA "baby steps". IMO this whole court ruling was made a fiasco because the supposed 2A orgs were scared poopless that OC would get a foot hold. A law that guaranteed constitutional rights would cut into their bottom line.

    Ever wonder why we hear so little from Alaska, and Vermont?
    They know how to spell F-R-E-E-D-O-M........in my best William Wallace (Braveheart) voice
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    You guys need to give up - because, as the $hitcago Sun Times reasons oh so well: "So a man packing 10 guns, some peeking out of his jacket, goes into a restaurant and gets drunk and boisterous. Good idea?..."

    http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/211...-gun-bill.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    You guys need to give up - because, as the $hitcago Sun Times reasons oh so well: "So a man packing 10 guns, some peeking out of his jacket, goes into a restaurant and gets drunk and boisterous. Good idea?..."

    http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/211...-gun-bill.html
    The Sun Times is well known to be a liberal newspaper....and sure, I think its a great idea...so there ST

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    You guys need to give up - because, as the $hitcago Sun Times reasons oh so well: "So a man packing 10 guns, some peeking out of his jacket, goes into a restaurant and gets drunk and boisterous. Good idea?..."

    http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/211...-gun-bill.html
    Better Best idea:

    The Sun Times should be limited to one (1) article per edition and it can only be concealed - no openly published stories. Further each should be limited to ten (10) words per submission.

    Carrying an edition into a bar cannot be permitted - people might get into violent arguments about the content + children should never, ever be exposed to such vile thoughts.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Keep in mind the home rule communities cannot pass felony laws. Any laws they pass will be misdemeanor law. State laws would be felonies.

    Several counties have already decided not to enforce such laws already. And the battle in these little RURAL towns would be much easier than having Chicago controlling the state.

    Then let's not forget that these misdemeanor laws will still end up in the federal circuit court, probably bringing another ruling slapping the towns and states. Get them mad and the next step may be to eliminate FOID.

    Probably only a small handful of cities would pass their own gun laws. Chicago, Springfield, Decatur, ~~~

    You guys are letting them scare you with the home rule doo doo.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-05-2013 at 06:15 PM.
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    Illinois Governor vetoes parts of concealed carry gun bill

    From my understanding of the amendatory veto, the bills sponsor has the sole discretion to accept the governors changes, or go for an override. The bills sponsor, Brandon Phelps has already filed for an override. If passed HB183 becomes law. If the override fails, the bill is dead. If it does then FOID card carry with no statewide standards will be the law of Illinois until something is passed or the State Attorney General gets a stay of the order subsequent to a SCOTUS appeal. That deadline I believe is the 24th of July.

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    Is it that if the override fails with greater than 50% in support of the override but less than 60%, then the bill is dead too?

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