• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Why is there not an Open Carry Association?

BroadwayJoe

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
40
Location
North Carolina
This OCA was just an interesting thought that crossed my mind and wondered the opinions of others. While this site I am certain has done more than anything out there for Open Carry, even if not an association, localized chapters with national collaborate efforts hosting awareness events etc. would definitely have a larger impact then the forum alone. It does not necessarily have to be an official association so to speak, but by having state "governance" for lack of a better word with local chapters all cooperating nationally, this could potentially have a much larger impact and voice then it does currently,even without being an association like an NRA. It could be done through Grass Root movements, or OCDO North Carolina Chapter for example. As far as members, or membership dues, I am pretty sure there are several that wouldn't mind contributing a small amount if the end justified the means. For example, having OCDO colorful brochures (state specific) to hand out to John Q. citizens a few hours a week with a table set up in front of a grocery store or whatever. I guess my point is, when there is something bigger then yourself, it is easier to attract people to join the cause. Few will volunteer to do these kind of things alone, but in numbers, build it and they will come. Just my .02 cents.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
This OCA was just an interesting thought that crossed my mind and wondered the opinions of others. While this site I am certain has done more than anything out there for Open Carry, even if not an association, localized chapters with national collaborate efforts hosting awareness events etc. would definitely have a larger impact then the forum alone. It does not necessarily have to be an official association so to speak, but by having state "governance" for lack of a better word with local chapters all cooperating nationally, this could potentially have a much larger impact and voice then it does currently,even without being an association like an NRA. It could be done through Grass Root movements, or OCDO North Carolina Chapter for example. As far as members, or membership dues, I am pretty sure there are several that wouldn't mind contributing a small amount if the end justified the means. For example, having OCDO colorful brochures (state specific) to hand out to John Q. citizens a few hours a week with a table set up in front of a grocery store or whatever. I guess my point is, when there is something bigger then yourself, it is easier to attract people to join the cause. Few will volunteer to do these kind of things alone, but in numbers, build it and they will come. Just my .02 cents.

You do realize you are describing GRNC, and they have attacked anybody who gets in their way. Up to the point of publishing a persons home address, where that person worked, and where her children went to school. What you would end up with is war with this organization that you cannot win on the organization level. The only people that could change that organization are the members, and they don't, they make excuses for their leader. It is much the same as any organization in Illinois would have to fight the ISRA, and there was once a small organization doing that. I don't exactly know what happened to them.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
They are not as anti-OC as some, but they decidedly are.

Years ago I informed them of their misrepresentation of the law in AL regarding OC. They couldn't care less. I haven't been a member of the NRA since, and won't ever be until they amend their ways and take a pro-no-permission-required-to-carry stance.

Any organization that so actively supports licensing the Right does not advocate the same things that I do. Not even close enough to be tolerable.
 

BroadwayJoe

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
40
Location
North Carolina
They are not as anti-OC as some, but they decidedly are.

Years ago I informed them of their misrepresentation of the law in AL regarding OC. They couldn't care less. I haven't been a member of the NRA since, and won't ever be until they amend their ways and take a pro-no-permission-required-to-carry stance.

Any organization that so actively supports licensing the Right does not advocate the same things that I do. Not even close enough to be tolerable.

I find this interesting. According to the North Carolina Constitution, Article 1 Section 30, it spells out a clear opposition to conceal carry, or at least that is how I am perceiving it, am I misinterpreting?

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice.

I find the following quite interesting too- "as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."

I know our forefathers would be rolling in their graves with the current "liberty" and "rights" the civil people really have.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I find this interesting. According to the North Carolina Constitution, Article 1 Section 30, it spells out a clear opposition to conceal carry, or at least that is how I am perceiving it, am I misinterpreting?

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice.

I find the following quite interesting too- "as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."

I know our forefathers would be rolling in their graves with the current "liberty" and "rights" the civil people really have.

I am sorry, but I don't see how that is replying to my post.

Looking at your post as a stand-alone comment unrelated to mine, I'll just say that I don't care about concealment. If OC is uninfringed, unfettered, and unlicensed for almost all public spaces and private spaces (with the consent of the owner/agent), I'm happy and believe the 2A to be honored.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
This OCA was just an interesting thought that crossed my mind and wondered the opinions of others. While this site I am certain has done more than anything out there for Open Carry, even if not an association, localized chapters with national collaborate efforts hosting awareness events etc. would definitely have a larger impact then the forum alone. It does not necessarily have to be an official association so to speak, but by having state "governance" for lack of a better word with local chapters all cooperating nationally, this could potentially have a much larger impact and voice then it does currently,even without being an association like an NRA. It could be done through Grass Root movements, or OCDO North Carolina Chapter for example. As far as members, or membership dues, I am pretty sure there are several that wouldn't mind contributing a small amount if the end justified the means. For example, having OCDO colorful brochures (state specific) to hand out to John Q. citizens a few hours a week with a table set up in front of a grocery store or whatever. I guess my point is, when there is something bigger then yourself, it is easier to attract people to join the cause. Few will volunteer to do these kind of things alone, but in numbers, build it and they will come. Just my .02 cents.

There is GRNC and AZCDL and MOC and LOCAL - just the ones I can name off the top of my head - that are not only grass roots lobbying/education organizations but have an active social networking component. VCDL, in comparison, is a wallflower and small groups based on narrow geographic affinity do some socialization but not much advocacy. These are just the facts of life.

Compare the numbers of people who hold CHPs/CCWs in any state to the numbers that are members of the state grassroots lobbying organization. Why is the ratio so small? Beyond complacency is the fact that folks have a hard time standing up publically for something that does not enjoy widespread social acceptability and approbation. So long as what they do with their CHP/CCW is not being messed with, they are going to go quietly along with their life.

Even within the state grassroots organizations there are a small number who are doers, and the rst are essentially along for the ride. I support that as it does keep down the confusion and competing energies.

Now tell me how you are going to convince someone to going a national OC association.

stay safe.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I'd love to see a national confederation of these State and local associations. Not one that controls them, but one that helps coordinate efforts--and can claim a huge membership by association.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I'd love to see a national confederation of these State and local associations. Not one that controls them, but one that helps coordinate efforts--and can claim a huge membership by association.

“OpenCarry.org [is a national] gun rights networking hub.”
The Atlantic, May 10, 2011


“There’s even an organization whose raison d’etre is promotion of open carry
. . . OpenCarry.org. These are the shock troops of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away.”
Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
“OpenCarry.org [is a national] gun rights networking hub.”
The Atlantic, May 10, 2011


“There’s even an organization whose raison d’etre is promotion of open carry
. . . OpenCarry.org. These are the shock troops of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away.”
Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

As OCDO is wholly owned, operated, and ruled by two people, it cannot be such a confederation. By definition, a confederation is owned, operated, and ruled by the entities that create it and are confederated by it.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
As OCDO is wholly owned, operated, and ruled by two people, it cannot be such a confederation. By definition, a confederation is owned, operated, and ruled by the entities that create it and are confederated by it.

I never referred to OCDO as a confederation - simply quoted what others have said about it, the effectiveness, and impact.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
As OCDO is wholly owned, operated, and ruled by two people, it cannot be such a confederation. By definition, a confederation is owned, operated, and ruled by the entities that create it and are confederated by it.

Oh, puhhhleeez. John and Mike own the communication channel--the forum. And, for legal protection of themselves, the communications posted here.

But, they do not own or control the people who associate via the forum. The exercise no control or governance except the language and subject matter of the forum. They're more hosts and catalyst than anything else.

I have never once seen them command or forbid action, except in relation to the forum rules. Maybe a couple legal threats to serious trolls. That's it.

Saying John and Mike own, operate, and control the people who associate via the forum (a communication channel) is like saying the post office owns, controls, or operates part of the NRA because it carries the NRA's mailings. Or, that VCDL is owned, operated, or controlled by various e-mail service providers because those providers deliver the VA-Alert e-mails.

The forum is a communication channel. An association is people.
 
Last edited:

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
--snipped--
The forum is a communication channel. An association is people.
Oookaay -

May this amalgamation of associated OC communication activists live long and prosper as Mike and John want.

Anyone wishing to try there hand at similar is welcome so to do....on their own dime :)
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Y'all want to create a national association? Here's a plan -

1. someone put together a list all/a lot of the state-level organizations that promote or support OC. List their official point of contact and, if different, the HCIC that speaks for them.

2. someone else figure out, based on (pulled completely out of thin air) three representatives from each organization, how may people we would be talking about.

3. a different someone else do the preliminary, exploratory stuff to figure out what would be the best housing./meal package for a 2 1/2-day (again pulled out of thin air) meeting at some place sort of geographically centered. It would be nice if both the location and the facility to be used were OC-tolerant if not actually OC-friendly. The date for this should probably be around mid-May or early June - after the school spring break crowds and before the summer vacation crowds.

3 a. executive decision #1 - will this congregation be only "authorized" representatives of the grass-roots organizations, or will the hoi poloi and unwashed masses be allowed in as spectators? If the latter, #2 above needs to estimate how many additional folks need to be covered by any package/discount put together.

4. another somebody write up something telling everybody we are planning on putting this pow-wow together and at the moment are looking for non-binding committment to show up.

5. once this theoretical stuff is put together, someone needs to contact the grass-roots organizartoin in the state where it looks like it will be held and ask if they would like to be the official host organization. I'm not sure (yet) what that would mean besides being "the official host organization".

6. yet another someone needs to take the reins (at least initially) and decide what fraction of 100% participation will be sufficient to move this moster from theoretical to actual, and then put together the necessary committees to make things start happening.

7. once we have committment and housing/meals (and maybe transportation) deals lined up, somebody is going to need to act as the accounts receivable/accounts payable head honcho.

8. It happened. now what?

I have the chutzpah to put my name up to be the HCIC of planning and putting some sort of goat rope together, but folks might not like that I take "HCIC" quite literally. That being the case, who else could we pick on to do this?

BTW - anybody that does not like my plan is invited to submit their alternative. I promise I will not be upset if your train-wreck Chinese fire drill of a plan gets picked over mine.

stay safe.
 

sraacke

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
1,214
Location
Saint Gabriel, Louisiana, USA
Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League (LOCAL) has about 100 paid members. We are not a large group compared to other state organizations but we work hard to educate the public about the laws of this state and the right to Open Carry here.
 
Last edited:

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League (LOCAL) has about 100 paid members. We are not a large group compared to other state organizations but we work hard to educate the public about the laws of this state and the right to Open Carry here.

So, are you volunteering for the HCIC position or one of the underling flunky jobs? I'd vote for you for HCIC - you are already a president and have experience.:p

stay safe.
 

sraacke

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
1,214
Location
Saint Gabriel, Louisiana, USA
Thanks but no thanks. In fact, I've been looking at stepping down and letting someone else deal with it. The problem is finding someone who wants it. Good luck with trying to get something going nationally. I've had enough of dealing with the State level politics. There's no way I would volunteer for a national level gig.

Steve.
 
Last edited:

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
These "guests" are politicians, media, your neighbors, clergy, LEOs, mothers, children, and yes antis.

OCDO is seen. OCDO is read. OCDO is having an impact. OCDO's voice is loud and clear and ever so effective.

This is Truth. My local PD does read the forum and they have admitted this to our members. I welcome them.(added by me)

Who do you think more than anyone else is responsible for the acceptance and growth of OC? Ans: OCDO

This and the mere presence of Legally Armed Citizens everywhere in your Community.(added by me)


. It could be done through Grass Root movements........ ...... I am pretty sure there are several that wouldn't mind contributing a small amount if the end justified the means. For example, having OCDO colorful brochures (state specific) to hand out to John Q. citizens a few hours a week with a table set up in front of a grocery store or whatever. I guess my point is, when there is something bigger then yourself, it is easier to attract people to join the cause. Few will volunteer to do these kind of things alone, but in numbers, build it and they will come. Just my .02 cents.

We are a "grass roots movement". That OCDO information table you mentioned is alive and well in Washington State. Different groups with the same purpose converge on the Gun Shows, festivals, gatherings and public picnics all over the State, north and south to spread the "normalization" of OC. Many states already have that slick little brochure and go thru quite a few of them. Some of us carry them in our pockets of glove boxes on that chance encounter.
A half dozen or so of us spent the day at a Constitution Rally just yesterday, an annual family Picnic next saturday and were invited to the Bellingham Gay Pride festival.
Yes we are a "grass roots" organization and we are that way because many of us believe that Citizenship is a Verb. An Action word. This may be just a forum, but it has a very strong presence.

http://www.washingtongunrights.com/ocdo/wgr.pdf
Other states have these also. I always tell people the can get more information in the privacy of there on homes by going to the National website. I then suggest "stories from the states" and suggest they look at the local (we have a page just for Whatcom county) page to stay informed about events. As we get involved in Community service acts, we ask them to volunteer with us. It is always easier to OC the first time when you have others with you.

There was a "national" group started last year by a group of very heavy hitters. It was called the "Armed Citizens Alliance" and the dues were US$35 a year. It failed. I do not know why, other than a lack of interest by the mods.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Guy's how many OCers do you think there are doing so today? Maybe 10,000 - 20,000 - 30,000 across the country if we're lucky? It is VERY easy to write off that size group of people in DC. 10 Million on the other hand is a very difficult number to dismiss. That was my point. .... carry on...

Well, you might be surprised. I live 20 miles out of a small (about 1000) town. We go to town once a week, or maybe every other week. One day I was talking to a shop keeper about OC and specifically OC in her small store. Her answer was: "I don't know about other stores, but they do it here ALL THE TIME"

This was especially interesting, as we have live here for 8 years and, other than the local LEO, I have NEVER seen anone (other than myself) OC in this town.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
OCers do not belong to an exclusive club - there are no Members Only signs.

OC surely has its activists - well represented here on OCDO. More than that though it is a state of mind, an acceptance of the practice.

VCDL in VA has well over 5,000 members who may chose to OC at any given time. I've been to picnics with approx 200 people OCing and to a dinner with in excess of 150 OCers. Though VCDL does not promote one form of carry over another, whenever we meet for whatever reason virtually 100% of us OC.
 
Top