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Thread: OT: Warning shots fired when Issaquah man parasails near Chelan Falls

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    OT: Warning shots fired when Issaquah man parasails near Chelan Falls

    CHELAN FALLS (AP) — The Douglas County sheriff’s office says a man fired warning shots at a parasail he felt was flying too low over his property.

    Undersheriff Don Culp told The Wenatchee World the parasail was not hit Tuesday afternoon and the 36-year-old Issaquah man landed at a park in Chelan Falls and called the sheriff’s office.

    The parasailer had taken off from Chelan Butte and ran into the anti-aircraft fire across the Columbia River from Chelan Falls.

    The 66-year-old property owner told a deputy he did not intend to hit the parasail. He said he first yelled at the parasailer for trespassing by flying too low and fired two or three shots after verbal unpleasantries.

    The case was referred to the county prosecutor.

    http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/...-chelan-falls/

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    OT: Warning shots fired when Issaquah man parasails near Chelan Falls

    Because it's soo easy to control the altitude while parasailing. :rollseyes:
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Aye yie yie. If his airspace is encroached upon, this guy should invest in some SAM batteries.

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    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
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    What if... it wasn't a parasail but a SPD RC drone? Do you technically own the airspace above your property? I know I own my land but not the mineral rights. But I'm unsure about my "air space".
    WA Guns
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    Quote Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
    What if... it wasn't a parasail but a SPD RC drone? Do you technically own the airspace above your property? I know I own my land but not the mineral rights. But I'm unsure about my "air space".
    As a pilot I can tell you, you do not own the air space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 44Brent View Post
    SNIP The parasailer had taken off from Chelan Butte and ran into the anti-aircraft fire across the Columbia River from Chelan Falls.
    <chuckle>

    Flak batteries? Tracers?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaun View Post
    Aye yie yie. If his airspace is encroached upon, this guy should invest in some SAM batteries.
    No, no. A covey of barrage balloons. That'll ward off them Luftwaffe parasailers.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
    What if... it wasn't a parasail but a SPD RC drone? Do you technically own the airspace above your property? I know I own my land but not the mineral rights. But I'm unsure about my "air space".
    Well 49 USC 40103 has a clear and concise answer to this question

    (a) Sovereignty and Public Right of Transit.—
    (1) The United States Government has exclusive sovereignty of airspace of the United States.

    (2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace. To further that right, the Secretary of Transportation shall consult with the Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board established under section 502 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (29 U.S.C. 792) before prescribing a regulation or issuing an order or procedure that will have a significant impact on the accessibility of commercial airports or commercial air transportation for handicapped individuals.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    <chuckle>

    Flak batteries? Tracers?
    Personally I like the point defense weapons on the Canadian Forces naval ships

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's an automated computer controlled battery linked to radar and built around a 40mm bofors gun

    (a refreshing twist on a classic weapon)
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Personally I like the point defense weapons on the Canadian Forces naval ships

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's an automated computer controlled battery linked to radar and built around a 40mm bofors gun

    (a refreshing twist on a classic weapon)
    No, no. Those are for hunting song birds and migratory geese.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well 49 USC 40103 has a clear and concise answer to this question
    Well shoot! I was assuming that the land I'd own includes the air above, that way I could've had every legal right to shoot down a government drone that flew overhead.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    No, no. Those are for hunting song birds and migratory geese.
    I use a punt gun for that myself, don't you?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    but the stoopid federal jackboots wouldn't let me carry it on the waterfowl refuge, they don't understand I need my 2 inch punt to protect myself from gang members.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    So....

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    No, no. Those are for hunting song birds and migratory geese.
    ..does that mean it's magazine is plugged so it can only hold 3 shells?

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    Quote Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
    What if... it wasn't a parasail but a SPD RC drone? Do you technically own the airspace above your property? I know I own my land but not the mineral rights. But I'm unsure about my "air space".
    Generally you have exclusive use of your airspace up to the point where you can legitimately & effectively use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfenter View Post
    ..does that mean it's magazine is plugged so it can only hold 3 shells?
    Ask me no questions, and I'll...
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Generally you have exclusive use of your airspace up to the point where you can legitimately & effectively use it.
    cite please.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    cite please.
    This is a good primer on the subject. http://aviation.uslegal.com/ownershi...over-property/

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Generally you have exclusive use of your airspace up to the point where you can legitimately & effectively use it.
    This seems false. There are several types of airspace... Class B, C, & D Airspace exists from the ground up to a varying height based on the class type. In class B airspace you need ATC clearance and direct vectors. Violation of their vectors has serious consequences. If you are in Class B airspace, the FAA owns you. For visual reference look here: http://macklow.com/airspace/airspace-chart-large.gif

    However, since this most likely happened in Class G airspace, let's address that. Aircraft must fly 700' above ground level (agl). That said those are Aircraft regulations. And they seem to show you don't own your airspace.

    According to this document, parachuters need to begin their landing and circling procedures at 2000' agl. That's twice the height small aircraft use when circling an airport. I've never skydived and don't know what the law is on that though.
    Last edited by jfslicer; 07-04-2013 at 10:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfslicer View Post
    This seems false. There are several types of airspace... Class B, C, & D Airspace exists from the ground up to a varying height based on the class type. In class B airspace you need ATC clearance and direct vectors. Violation of their vectors has serious consequences. If you are in Class B airspace, the FAA owns you. For visual reference look here: http://macklow.com/airspace/airspace-chart-large.gif

    However, since this most likely happened in Class G airspace, let's address that. Aircraft must fly 700' above ground level (agl). That said those are Aircraft regulations. And they seem to show you don't own your airspace.

    According to this document, parachuters need to begin their landing and circling procedures at 2000' agl. That's twice the height small aircraft use when circling an airport. I've never skydived and don't know what the law is on that though.
    You have forgotten or at least not included Class E airspace also..... Basically, 500 feet from people or structures UNLESS taking off or landing!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    You have forgotten or at least not included Class E airspace also..... Basically, 500 feet from people or structures UNLESS taking off or landing!
    True... thanks! It's been awhile since I've flown an airplane. My knowledge is a bit hazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfslicer View Post
    This seems false. There are several types of airspace... Class B, C, & D Airspace exists from the ground up to a varying height based on the class type. In class B airspace you need ATC clearance and direct vectors. Violation of their vectors has serious consequences. If you are in Class B airspace, the FAA owns you. For visual reference look here: http://macklow.com/airspace/airspace-chart-large.gif

    However, since this most likely happened in Class G airspace, let's address that. Aircraft must fly 700' above ground level (agl). That said those are Aircraft regulations. And they seem to show you don't own your airspace.

    According to this document, parachuters need to begin their landing and circling procedures at 2000' agl. That's twice the height small aircraft use when circling an airport. I've never skydived and don't know what the law is on that though.
    in Class G airspace, let's address that. Aircraft must fly 700' above ground level (agl). That said those are Aircraft regulations. And they seem to show you don't own your airspace.
    Regardless of the airspace classification, if I owned a building that was 1,100 feet tall, an airplane could not legally fly into/through/too close to it, interfering with my legitimate & effective use of my airspace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Regardless of the airspace classification, if I owned a building that was 1,100 feet tall, an airplane could not legally fly into/through/too close to it, interfering with my legitimate & effective use of my airspace.
    This, plus the fact that a lot of people got huge settlements when the Seattle Monorail was built over their property. Not places where the support pylons were built but those where the tracks were merely hung above their land with out "touching it".

    Every case involving "airspace" is different but in this case the property owner had no legal justification for shooting.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Regardless of the airspace classification, if I owned a building that was 1,100 feet tall, an airplane could not legally fly into/through/too close to it, interfering with my legitimate & effective use of my airspace.
    Agreed. They have to avoid your building by 200'. That's pretty stinking close. It seems clear the parasailer was outside of 200' or else there would not have been sufficient time to yell profanities at him, pull a gun, and fire warning shots. He would have passed over the property in a matter of seconds if he were within 200'-500'.

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Every case involving "airspace" is different but in this case the property owner had no legal justification for shooting.
    Agreed.

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    Land owner is a nut and should be charged with Reckless Endangerment. During college, I was a security guard at Rocket Research in Redmond. Hot air balloons would float down the valley all the time. One finally landed on the campus. I allowed the escort van to come in and pick everyone up. No big deal.

    Now, I live in Arlington. Gliders clear our ridge directly overhead on the way to Arlington Airport. I hope they all make it. Beautiful sight, and very peaceful to watch. I don't think they're interested in invading our property rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Every case involving "airspace" is different but in this case the property owner had no legal justification for shooting.
    Or phrased a bit differently, the guy flying the paraglider could, if he had been armed during his outdoor activity, have fired back and it would have been a legitimate act of self-defense.

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