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Extra Legal Requirement for CHP in Accomack?

Wolf_shadow

Wolf_shadow

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One of the guys from my sportsman's club open carries all the time here on the shore (Not computer friendly). Anyway he told me today, when he went to get his CHP renewal they took his picture to be printed on the new CHP. Apparently the new card is plastic and they are putting your picture in the upper right corner.

§ 18.2-308.04. Processing of the application and issuance of a concealed handgun permit.
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E. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall specify only the following information: name, address, date of birth, gender, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes, and signature of the permittee; the signature of the judge issuing the permit, of the clerk of court who has been authorized to sign such permits by the issuing judge, or of the clerk of court who has been authorized to issue such permits pursuant to subsection D; the date of issuance; and the expiration date. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall be no larger than two inches wide by three and one-fourth inches long and shall be of a uniform style prescribed by the Department of State Police.
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I don't see where in the code they can now add a photo. IANAL am I missing something?
 
peter nap

peter nap

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Wolf_shadow said:
One of the guys from my sportsman's club open carries all the time here on the shore (Not computer friendly). Anyway he told me today, when he went to get his CHP renewal they took his picture to be printed on the new CHP. Apparently the new card is plastic and they are putting your picture in the upper right corner.



I don't see where in the code they can now add a photo. IANAL am I missing something?
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They can't. I'm guessing the rational is that it will eliminate the need for a second ID card. I don't think that will fly.

I wonder if they're keeping a copy of the Picture. No way to find out either unless the Clerk ignores the sealed info law.
 
Wolf_shadow

Wolf_shadow

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peter nap said:
They can't. I'm guessing the rational is that it will eliminate the need for a second ID card. I don't think that will fly.

I wonder if they're keeping a copy of the Picture. No way to find out either unless the Clerk ignores the sealed info law.
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While the CHP Holders info is sealed I don't see how the procedure for processing is. Also where they used to charge $15.00 they have increased the fee to $35.
 
peter nap

peter nap

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Wolf_shadow said:
While the CHP Holders info is sealed I don't see how the procedure for processing is. Also where they used to charge $15.00 they have increased the fee to $35.
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I'm not sure about the internal procedures yet (keeping a copy). Gotta test it.
The fee change and Picture itself can be dealt with I think.
 
skidmark

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http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.04

....

E. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall specify only the following information: name, address, date of birth, gender, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes, and signature of the permittee; the signature of the judge issuing the permit, of the clerk of court who has been authorized to sign such permits by the issuing judge, or of the clerk of court who has been authorized to issue such permits pursuant to subsection D; the date of issuance; and the expiration date. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall be no larger than two inches wide by three and one-fourth inches long and shall be of a uniform style prescribed by the Department of State Police.
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Somebody help a brother out here, please.

Where in that paragraph does it mention the picture of the applicant?

It seems the Clerk has become disoriented. (Happens a lot in cases of cranio-rectal inversion.)

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.06

....

D. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall contain only the following information: name, address, date of birth, gender, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes, and photograph of the permittee; the signature of the Superintendent of the Virginia Department of State Police or his designee; the date of issuance; and the expiration date.
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Somebody please go explain to the Clerk that a person who lives in Accomack County is a resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia in spite of the fact that 1) in 1670, the Virginia Colony's Royal Governor William Berkeley abolished Accomac County. Seems the Virginia General Assembly re-created it in 1671; and

2) Unlike most of Virginia, during the Civil War, the county was not under Confederate control, but held by the forces of the United States government.

Nowhere in the Code of Virginia does it say the Clerk can use a non-resident permit for residents. And that's where the extra-legal happens. (Stupid is not yet illegal, It ought to be, but personally I think most of the General Assembly is afraid they'd be arrested if they made stupid illegal.)

stay safe.
 
B

Blk97F150

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B

Blk97F150

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Email sent to the Accomack County Clerk of Circuit Court (Samuel H. Cooper, Jr) with a link to the Accomack County website page regarding concealed handgun permits, and a request for him to identify the section in the Code of Virginia that authorizes him to take photographs.

More to follow... :p
 
M

mpguy

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Suffolk Virginia
What I don't get is, why the county can just make up stuff. Its a waste of tax payer money.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
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Blk97F150

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mpguy said:
What I don't get is, why the county can just make up stuff. Its a waste of tax payer money.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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I think a lot of government agencies do that.... they figure that everything is 'fair game', and if/when they get caught they will revise their policy at that time. Most of the time there is no penalty, once they 'comply'... :banghead:
 
peter nap

peter nap

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Blk97F150 said:
I think a lot of government agencies do that.... they figure that everything is 'fair game', and if/when they get caught they will revise their policy at that time. Most of the time there is no penalty, once they 'comply'... :banghead:
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Yep...a lot of arrogance goes with that office.
 
Wolf_shadow

Wolf_shadow

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Blk97F150 said:
http://www.co.accomack.va.us/govern...rk-of-circuit-court/concealed-handgun-permits
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Concealed Handgun Permits

Applications for a Concealed Handgun permits are available from the Clerk's Office or by visiting the Virginia State Police website.

Applications must be received in person at the Clerk’s Office and the permit fee is $35.00. Your photo will be taken to be included on your new handgun permit.


A. 1. Persons who previously have held a concealed handgun permit shall be issued, upon application as provided in §
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18.2-308.02, a new five-year permit unless it is found that the applicant is subject to any of the disqualifications set forth in § 18.2-308.09. Persons who previously have been issued a concealed handgun permit pursuant to this article shall not be required to appear in person to apply for a new five-year permit pursuant to this section, and the application for the new permit may be submitted via the United States mail. The circuit court that receives the application shall promptly notify an applicant if the application is incomplete or if the fee submitted for the permit pursuant to § 18.2-308.03 is incorrect.
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Under VA Code they cannot require applicants to be received in person either!
 
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Blk97F150

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Does anyone on OCDO currently live in Accomack County and NOT have a CHP yet?

If so.... I'll donate $20 towards your CHP license if you agree to apply ONLY following Virginia law, and not submitting anything they are requesting above and beyond the law! :p
 
peter nap

peter nap

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Blk97F150 said:
Does anyone on OCDO currently live in Accomack County and NOT have a CHP yet?

If so.... I'll donate $20 towards your CHP license if you agree to apply ONLY following Virginia law, and not submitting anything they are requesting above and beyond the law! :p
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Go get em!
This is starting to look good.:cool::cool:
 
Wolf_shadow

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Email Sent

I have sent the following email to The Clerk Samual Cooper Jr. and The President of VCDL Philip VanCleave.

Hon, Samual Cooper Jr.

Please let me know what part of the Virginia Code allows your office to require applicants for a Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) to be “received in Person” and to submit to a photograph for use on the new CHP.

In “§ 18.2-308.02. Application for a concealed handgun permit; Virginia resident or domiciliary”. I can find no such requirements or permissions. In fact “§ 18.2-308.04. Processing of the application and issuance of a concealed handgun permit.” Section E states what may be on the permit and I see no allowance for a photo

“E. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall specify only the following information: name, address, date of birth, gender, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes, and signature of the permittee; the signature of the judge issuing the permit, of the clerk of court who has been authorized to sign such permits by the issuing judge, or of the clerk of court who has been authorized to issue such permits pursuant to subsection D; the date of issuance; and the expiration date. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall be no larger than two inches wide by three and one-fourth inches long and shall be of a uniform style prescribed by the Department of State Police.”

The only reference to photograph I find in the code is in section § 18.2-308.06. Nonresident concealed handgun permits. Since § 18.2-308.06. Nonresident concealed handgun permits does not apply to Residents of the state of Virginia this section can not be used to justify photographs on resident CHP’s.

Also in § 18.2-308.010. Renewal of concealed handgun permit. In part Paragraph A says “Persons who previously have been issued a concealed handgun permit pursuant to this article shall not be required to appear in person to apply for a new five-year permit pursuant to this section, and the application for the new permit may be submitted via the United States mail. The circuit court that receives the application shall promptly notify an applicant if the application is incomplete or if the fee submitted for the permit pursuant to § 18.2-308.03 is incorrect.”

In summary in VAC 18.2-308 through 18.2-308.015 in reference to CHP’s, I can find no requirement for an resident applicant to appear in person or submit to a photograph for issuance of a Resident Concealed Handgun Permit. Please enlighten me on how your office can make these requirements.


Rev. John Xxxxxx
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We''ll see how he answers. :banghead: Sam actually knows me as I confronted him on the 90 to 180 day rule on my renewal, and am a member of the local town council.
 
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jsfrederick

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Fredericksburg, VA
Blk97F150 said:
Does anyone on OCDO currently live in Accomack County and NOT have a CHP yet?

If so.... I'll donate $20 towards your CHP license if you agree to apply ONLY following Virginia law, and not submitting anything they are requesting above and beyond the law! :p
Click to expand...

I'll donate another $20!
 
HearseGuy

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VA
jsfrederick said:
I'll donate another $20!
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Dangit, why do I have to be just outside of accomac! Haha

Good on you for bringing this up and out to light wolf shadow. In the local gun shop today I saw 3 or 4 people comparing CHPs today. They look like drivers licenses and had their picture. I raised an eyebrow but didn't say anything. Not sure where they were from.
 
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