Cool. Feel free to join those who are trying to convince the Clerk of that.... the more the better! :banana:
Samuel H. Cooper, Jr, Accomack Clerk of Court
SHCooper@courts.state.va.us
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Extra Legal Requirement for CHP in Accomack?
- Thread starter Wolf_shadow
- Start date
Cool. Feel free to join those who are trying to convince the Clerk of that.... the more the better! :banana:
Samuel H. Cooper, Jr, Accomack Clerk of Court
SHCooper@courts.state.va.us
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
It probably wouldn't help if I sent an email telling him exactly what I thought of him and his little cards. :lol:
Mike
Site Co-Founder
This needs to be stopped quickly - there is no photo requirement on the VA CHP - anyone asking for one is not our friend.
Samual Cooper Jr
I saw your ad on your website for fake Concealed Handgun Permits. I am interested in one, actually two if I can get separate names.
There was no mention of them, but could I also order a diploma and transcript for an advanced degree.
Please let me know the total cost with shipping.
Thank you in advance
Peter nap
I saw your ad on your website for fake Concealed Handgun Permits. I am interested in one, actually two if I can get separate names.
There was no mention of them, but could I also order a diploma and transcript for an advanced degree.
Please let me know the total cost with shipping.
Thank you in advance
Peter nap
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
Thundar
Regular Member
My e-mail to the Virginia State Police
Sirs,
It has come to my attention that the Accomack Circuit Court is issuing Concealed Handgun Permits that include a photograph. Please confirm that this "Photo CHP" meets the requirements for a primary identification document for a firearms transfer as stated in Section 18.2 308.2.2.
Here is a link to the Accomack Circuit Court website which shows the "Photo CHP" that they are issuing. Link: http://www.co.accomack.va.us/govern...rk-of-circuit-court/concealed-handgun-permits
Thank you for your time
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXX
Sirs,
It has come to my attention that the Accomack Circuit Court is issuing Concealed Handgun Permits that include a photograph. Please confirm that this "Photo CHP" meets the requirements for a primary identification document for a firearms transfer as stated in Section 18.2 308.2.2.
Here is a link to the Accomack Circuit Court website which shows the "Photo CHP" that they are issuing. Link: http://www.co.accomack.va.us/govern...rk-of-circuit-court/concealed-handgun-permits
Thank you for your time
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXX
Thundar
Regular Member
VA State Police Reply
Dear Mr. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
The concealed handgun permit with photo presented on the link you provided does meet the primary identification requirements of Section 18.2-308.2:2, of the Code of Virginia.
Thank you for sharing this information.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, Manager
Firearms Transaction Center
Department of State Police
Dear Mr. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
The concealed handgun permit with photo presented on the link you provided does meet the primary identification requirements of Section 18.2-308.2:2, of the Code of Virginia.
Thank you for sharing this information.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, Manager
Firearms Transaction Center
Department of State Police
JamesCanby
Activist Member
So.... if I read his response correctly, if one has an Accomack Photo CHP, no other ID is required? Doesn't that contradict the existing state law? The VSP website states:
The person issued a permit or in possession of a de facto permit must have the permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and must display the permit AND a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department upon demand by a law enforcement officer.
The "and" would seem to indicate that there must be two documents proffered: the CHP and a government-issued Photo ID.
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Thundar
Regular Member
The question I made to the VSP was about firearms transfers from an FFL, which require a Commonwealth Issued ID and a secondary document - bank check, utility bil, etc. with the same address.
The point is that making up your own ID and putting a Commonwealth seal on it can have unintended consequences.
As to your question, it appears that the "Photo CHP" satisfies both requirements just like an out of state VA CHP issued by the VSP.
USNA69
Regular Member
Since this CHP Photo ID Card has the approval of VSP as a primary identification document, then all of us CHP holders should demand that our respective Clerks of Court begin issuing them to us throughout the Commonwealth.
Thundar
Regular Member
Never say never
In general you are correct, but not in this case.
The Virginia State Police Firearms Transaction Center implements Virginia's CHRI (background check system for purchase of firearms). They write the manual that firearms dealers in Virginia follow. They are very professional and very knowledgeable. They are also the ones that review the state firearms transaction forms (SP65's), so any issues for a Virginia firearms dealer's state paperwork would be handled by this same unit.
VSP FTC is without a doubt much better than the FBI and ATF. FTC delivered a clear, useable (and in my reading of the law correct) answer in less than an hour. The feds would take three weeks to answer with a ten page letter which would read like a letter from the Oracle of Delphi.
In general you are correct, but not in this case.
The Virginia State Police Firearms Transaction Center implements Virginia's CHRI (background check system for purchase of firearms). They write the manual that firearms dealers in Virginia follow. They are very professional and very knowledgeable. They are also the ones that review the state firearms transaction forms (SP65's), so any issues for a Virginia firearms dealer's state paperwork would be handled by this same unit.
VSP FTC is without a doubt much better than the FBI and ATF. FTC delivered a clear, useable (and in my reading of the law correct) answer in less than an hour. The feds would take three weeks to answer with a ten page letter which would read like a letter from the Oracle of Delphi.
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Why would you ask about that? It has nothing to do with the issue at hand - that the piece of plastic the Clerk is issuing does not conform with § 18.2-308.04.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.04
§ 18.2-308.04. Processing of the application and issuance of a concealed handgun permit.
stay safe.
Esanders2008
Regular Member
No. I think that the clerks should conform to established state law.
Whether the State Police considers this plastic card to be a 'valid ID' or not really doesn't matter.... that is NOT the issue being discussed in this thread. The issue being discussed here, is whether that plastic card meets all the legal requirements to be a 'Concealed Handgun Permit' (and it does not).
Btw, I have access to a plastic card printer, and can create cards just like this one. I wonder if the State Police would consider my homemade card just 'valid' ??
^^THIS! I think that's all anyone is asking... that they follow the law.
If I violate the law, I can be arrested.... yet it appears the Accomack Clerk of Court can repeatedly violate the law, with no consequence. :banghead:
USNA69
Regular Member
Since this CHP Photo ID Card has the approval of VSP as a primary identification document, then all of us CHP holders should demand that our respective Clerks of Court begin issuing them to us throughout the Commonwealth.
Esanders, I agree with you. And one way to make that happen is to illustrate how the VSP opinion is bogus. If other Clerks of Court refuse to issue a CHP Photo ID Card, because such issuance is not in compliance with Commonwealth law, then the Accomack Clerk of Court might have some 'splainin' to do, e.g. by what authority did he design and issue a card unique to Accomack County, which VSP has detemined to be legitimate photo identification?
If it is recognized by the Commonwealth as an acceptable ID issued by a State Agency, then I want one, too ... but I likely cannot get one in the City of Norfolk. Perhaps I could demand that the Norfolk Clerk of Court design his own photo ID card. If he did, I can see no reason why VSP would not accept it just as readily as it accepted the one from Accomack County.
Esanders2008
Regular Member
Originally Posted by USNA69
Since this CHP Photo ID Card has the approval of VSP as a primary identification document, then all of us CHP holders should demand that our respective Clerks of Court begin issuing them to us throughout the Commonwealth.
Esanders, I agree with you. And one way to make that happen is to illustrate how the VSP opinion is bogus. If other Clerks of Court refuse to issue a CHP Photo ID Card, because such issuance is not in compliance with Commonwealth law, then the Accomack Clerk of Court might have some 'splainin' to do, e.g. by what authority did he design and issue a card unique to Accomack County, which VSP has detemined to be legitimate photo identification?
If it is recognized by the Commonwealth as an acceptable ID issued by a State Agency, then I want one, too ... but I likely cannot get one in the City of Norfolk. Perhaps I could demand that the Norfolk Clerk of Court design his own photo ID card. If he did, I can see no reason why VSP would not accept it just as readily as it accepted the one from Accomack County.
I agree with your analysis in the first paragraph, but I would rather not have a card that has all of my personal information, some of which is not required by statute ( I did not even provide my ssn on my application) and also lacks a required piece, the judges signature!
USNA69
Regular Member
I should have worded my second paragraph differently. I was going for subtle sarcasm, but I can see how it looked sincere. What I meant to convey was that I am all but certain that my local Clerk would refuse such a request, and that refusal would invalidate the VSP determination that the Accomack-unique card was a valid ID.
No where on the plastic card does it identify the county, or the 'issuing authority'.... its just a plastic card with personal info printed in it. Send me your personal information, and I can print you one just like it.... :uhoh:
(kidding about the personal info... please don't send that to me! LOL)