Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 75

Thread: Celebrating by firing your gun in the air, really?!?

  1. #1
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,121

    Celebrating by firing your gun in the air, really?!?

    This made me pretty angry and I cannot imagine the pain the parents must feel. "http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2356851/Seven-year-old-boy-dies-hit-stray-bullet-fired-air-walked-July-4-fireworks-display.html"

    But what idiot fires a gun in the air? I deem this as criminal. Sure, I fire my piece at the range but never anywhere it isn't safe or required.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    South Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    315

    Re: Celebrating by firing your gun in the air, really?!?

    Living in petersburg, this seems to be the way the fourth is celebrated in the hood. Same happens at midnight on new year's. Wife and I stay inside, lock the doors and wish we could afford the ammo that we hear being wasted.

    Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

  3. #3
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    I am surprised more people are not hurt by this stupidity.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  4. #4
    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by builtjeep View Post
    Living in petersburg, this seems to be the way the fourth is celebrated in the hood. Same happens at midnight on new year's. Wife and I stay inside, lock the doors and wish we could afford the ammo that we hear being wasted.

    Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2
    Same here in "Hoodbridge". Our development is chuck full of wonderful fun loving Hispanics but on New Year and the 4th they do like to make a racket. Usually 100 or 500 count packs of firecrackers but several firearms also...

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    This is an argument I'm not going to get into but there's more to this boys death than shooting up in the air. IF and there is only guesswork now, IF he was killed by a stray shot from somewhere, it was not from one shot up in the air at more than a 45 degree angle.

    The old falling bullet death is a myth and I don't care how many news reports there are. A less than 200 grain bullet falling at a maximum on 120 miles an hour...isn't going to penetrate anyone's skull.

    Not saying shooting in the air is a good idea, just that it isn't going to kill anyone any more than a penny off of the Empire State Building.

    That bullet works out to less than 14 foot pounds BTW.

    My guess is someone shooting some anemic round like a 40, lobbed it over the crowds heads from a couple of hundred yards.
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-06-2013 at 03:15 PM.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,627
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    This is an argument I'm not going to get into but there's more to this boys death than shooting up in the air. IF and there is only guesswork now, IF he was killed by a stray shot from somewhere, it was not from one shot up in the air at more than a 45 degree angle.

    The old falling bullet death is a myth and I don't care how many news reports there are. A less than 200 grain bullet falling at a maximum on 120 miles an hour...isn't going to penetrate anyone's skull.

    Not saying shooting in the air is a good idea, just that it isn't going to kill anyone any more than a penny off of the Empire State Building.

    That bullet works out to less than 14 foot pounds BTW.
    My original "soft spot" theory was apparently flawed - fontanelles normal fuse before 3 years of age.

    Nevertheless found this related to the physics of a bullet not fired straight up:

    Firearms expert Julian Hatcher has studied falling bullets and found that on average .30 caliber rounds reach terminal velocities of 300 feet per second (90 m/s) and larger .50 caliber bullets have a terminal velocity of 500 feet per second (150 m/s). A bullet traveling at only 150 feet per second (46 m/s) to 170 feet per second (52 m/s) can easily penetrate human skin and at 200 feet per second (60 m/s), that same bullet can penetrate the skull. Even a bullet that does not penetrate the skull may still result in an intracranial injury.

    Conclusion: Can be fatal.
    http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/qu...when-they-fall
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    My original "soft spot" theory was apparently flawed - fontanelles normal fuse before 3 years of age.

    Nevertheless found this related to the physics of a bullet not fired straight up:

    Firearms expert Julian Hatcher has studied falling bullets and found that on average .30 caliber rounds reach terminal velocities of 300 feet per second (90 m/s) and larger .50 caliber bullets have a terminal velocity of 500 feet per second (150 m/s). A bullet traveling at only 150 feet per second (46 m/s) to 170 feet per second (52 m/s) can easily penetrate human skin and at 200 feet per second (60 m/s), that same bullet can penetrate the skull. Even a bullet that does not penetrate the skull may still result in an intracranial injury.

    Conclusion: Can be fatal.
    http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/qu...when-they-fall
    That's where the confusion is Grape, Hatcher discusses a bullet in an arc (lobbing) instead of in freefall (Shooting in the air). The Army did a series of studies on this and the bottom line (Granted with a lot of conflicting data) was in a true freefall (No forward thrust left), the bullet won't even hit the 120 MPH mark because it has lost its stabilizing spin and will tumble.

    Yes, it could cause death from trauma but that's not what happened here.

    It's not that I'm disputing the fact that the kid was killed by a stray shot, it's the phrase "Firing in the air" I object to.

    That's like saying my holdover on a 1000 yard target is firing in the air.
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-06-2013 at 03:41 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,182
    MythBusters- Penny Drop

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHxvMLoKRWg

    And an interesting article on 'falling bullets':
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...g_bullets.html

    (Spoiler: it appears that a person might get 'hurt', but it doesn't appear to be terminal under normal 'falling' circumstances. That said, shooting into the air is never a good idea!)

  9. #9
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    MythBusters- Penny Drop

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHxvMLoKRWg

    And an interesting article on 'falling bullets':
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...g_bullets.html

    (Spoiler: it appears that a person might get 'hurt', but it doesn't appear to be terminal under normal 'falling' circumstances. That said, shooting into the air is never a good idea!)
    Agree 100%

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,627
    Still someone discharged their gun in an irresponsible manner resulting in the death of a young boy. Granted there is no cause/reason to presume that a CHP holder was involved nor cause to malign those that carry for personal defense. Unfortunately that is what this journalist does - that is why I accused him of "yellow journalism".
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Still someone discharged their gun in an irresponsible manner resulting in the death of a young boy. Granted there is no cause/reason to presume that a CHP holder was involved nor cause to malign those that carry for personal defense. Unfortunately that is what this journalist does - that is why I accused him of "yellow journalism".
    +1

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    South Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    315

    Re: Celebrating by firing your gun in the air, really?!?

    Indeed. I'm well aware of the fact that a falling bullet will not kill (actually know a guy who was struck by one, got a hell of a headache and a good knot on his noggin), however I've also seen more than a couple of our local idiots who seem to think that approximately 45° is far enough to aim upward.

    Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,765
    Agree with the assessments of flat-out biased "journalism"

    BUT

    I think we as gun owners should be loudly and publicly decrying behavior such as this. It is NOT what we stand for.

  14. #14
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Secret Bunker
    Posts
    2,573

    Re: Celebrating by firing your gun in the air, really?!?

    I think they should make anvil guns just for these people. They would be equipped with a sensor & only fire when the barrel was 90 degrees from the ground (pointing straight up). The range need only be a few feet. These should be given away free with obama phones. Thus solving multiple problems at once.

    Win-win! Just kidding...
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    SNIP But what idiot fires a gun in the air? I deem this as criminal.
    Are you genuinely surprised and considering such to be criminal? Or, just adopting that position?

    If the latter, I'll be quiet.

    If the former, don't forget our schools and culture stopped teaching firearm safety decades ago. Separately, its kinda hard to make it criminal without men rea. Some people really are that dumb and don't know any better. The solution is to teach them (before the tragedy happens). Personally, I've got little respect for the public school system. But, if we're going to be stuck with it, then it should teach some useful stuff like firearm safety.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  16. #16
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Are you genuinely surprised and considering such to be criminal? Or, just adopting that position?

    If the latter, I'll be quiet.

    If the former, don't forget our schools and culture stopped teaching firearm safety decades ago. Separately, its kinda hard to make it criminal without mens rea. Some people really are that dumb and don't know any better. The solution is to teach them (before the tragedy happens). Personally, I've got little respect for the public school system. But, if we're going to be stuck with it, then it should teach some useful stuff like firearm safety.
    Re: Bolded section, surely you jest. Nearly EVERY gun-control law makes one a criminal without the required element of mens rea...

    TFred

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,171

    There is no shortage

    of idiot gun owners or graduates of the "Dangerous" Dan Rather school of Yellow Journalism.

    This incident has shown both unfortunately.

    Hopefully, somebody saw what happened and will come forward so the child can at least have justice as he didn't have a chance for a full life.

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,627
    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    of idiot gun owners or graduates of the "Dangerous" Dan Rather school of Yellow Journalism.

    This incident has shown both unfortunately.

    Hopefully, somebody saw what happened and will come forward so the child can at least have justice as he didn't have a chance for a full life.
    Not likely that this person will ever be identified unless someone can trace the original arc of the shot definitely or ballistic markings have evolved to a level seen only on CSI
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not likely that this person will ever be identified unless someone can trace the original arc of the shot definitely or ballistic markings have evolved to a level seen only on CSI
    Its was Biden's wife ... next mystery!

    Really, we don't have enough facts yet IMO.

    But Biden's wife is a good likelihood.

  20. #20
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Its was Biden's wife ... next mystery!

    Really, we don't have enough facts yet IMO.

    But Biden's wife is a good likelihood.
    It probably was drunk Joe himself. Poor guy has so many blackouts he can't remember.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    It probably was drunk Joe himself. Poor guy has so many blackouts he can't remember.
    Wait a minute...are you talking about dopey Joe the Vice President or AK Joe the Delegate ?
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-07-2013 at 03:18 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Wait a minute...are you talking about dopey Joe the Vice President or AK Joe the Delegate ?
    I thought there was only one drunk dopey Joe, mia culpa for the confusion. Of course I was talking about Obama's court jester...LOL!

    Does AK Joe have a drinking problem also?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I thought there was only one drunk dopey Joe, mia culpa for the confusion. Of course I was talking about Obama's court jester...LOL!

    Does AK Joe have a drinking problem also?
    He gets into a lot of fights
    He has to drink a fair amount.

  24. #24
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not likely that this person will ever be identified unless someone can trace the original arc of the shot definitely or ballistic markings have evolved to a level seen only on CSI
    I believe you are right. Unless the person is a completely dysfunctional sub-human being, they will be aware of this and guilt can be a horrible cancer over the years. Not saying it will substitute for jail time, but it's not over.

    TFred

  25. #25
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Secret Bunker
    Posts
    2,573

    Re: Celebrating by firing your gun in the air, really?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    I think they should make anvil guns just for these people. They would be equipped with a sensor & only fire when the barrel was 90 degrees from the ground (pointing straight up). The range need only be a few feet. These should be given away free with obama phones. Thus solving multiple problems at once.

    Win-win! Just kidding...
    Wow - teach me to attempt humor here....tough crowd, tough crowd. Geesh! I get no respect I tell yah!
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwu-6GxBHN4
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 07-08-2013 at 04:44 AM.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •