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Celebrating by firing your gun in the air, really?!?

nuc65

Activist Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
1,121
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
This made me pretty angry and I cannot imagine the pain the parents must feel. "http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2356851/Seven-year-old-boy-dies-hit-stray-bullet-fired-air-walked-July-4-fireworks-display.html"

But what idiot fires a gun in the air? I deem this as criminal. Sure, I fire my piece at the range but never anywhere it isn't safe or required.
 

builtjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
323
Location
South Chesterfield, VA
Living in petersburg, this seems to be the way the fourth is celebrated in the hood. Same happens at midnight on new year's. Wife and I stay inside, lock the doors and wish we could afford the ammo that we hear being wasted. :mad:

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2
 

JohnM15A

Regular Member
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Mar 10, 2013
Messages
234
Location
Woodbridge, VA
Living in petersburg, this seems to be the way the fourth is celebrated in the hood. Same happens at midnight on new year's. Wife and I stay inside, lock the doors and wish we could afford the ammo that we hear being wasted. :mad:

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

Same here in "Hoodbridge". Our development is chuck full of wonderful fun loving Hispanics but on New Year and the 4th they do like to make a racket. Usually 100 or 500 count packs of firecrackers but several firearms also...
 

peter nap

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This is an argument I'm not going to get into but there's more to this boys death than shooting up in the air. IF and there is only guesswork now, IF he was killed by a stray shot from somewhere, it was not from one shot up in the air at more than a 45 degree angle.

The old falling bullet death is a myth and I don't care how many news reports there are. A less than 200 grain bullet falling at a maximum on 120 miles an hour...isn't going to penetrate anyone's skull.

Not saying shooting in the air is a good idea, just that it isn't going to kill anyone any more than a penny off of the Empire State Building.

That bullet works out to less than 14 foot pounds BTW.

My guess is someone shooting some anemic round like a 40, lobbed it over the crowds heads from a couple of hundred yards.
 
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Grapeshot

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This is an argument I'm not going to get into but there's more to this boys death than shooting up in the air. IF and there is only guesswork now, IF he was killed by a stray shot from somewhere, it was not from one shot up in the air at more than a 45 degree angle.

The old falling bullet death is a myth and I don't care how many news reports there are. A less than 200 grain bullet falling at a maximum on 120 miles an hour...isn't going to penetrate anyone's skull.

Not saying shooting in the air is a good idea, just that it isn't going to kill anyone any more than a penny off of the Empire State Building.

That bullet works out to less than 14 foot pounds BTW.

My original "soft spot" theory was apparently flawed - fontanelles normal fuse before 3 years of age.

Nevertheless found this related to the physics of a bullet not fired straight up:

Firearms expert Julian Hatcher has studied falling bullets and found that on average .30 caliber rounds reach terminal velocities of 300 feet per second (90 m/s) and larger .50 caliber bullets have a terminal velocity of 500 feet per second (150 m/s). A bullet traveling at only 150 feet per second (46 m/s) to 170 feet per second (52 m/s) can easily penetrate human skin and at 200 feet per second (60 m/s), that same bullet can penetrate the skull. Even a bullet that does not penetrate the skull may still result in an intracranial injury.

Conclusion: Can be fatal.
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q...red-into-the-air-kill-a-person-when-they-fall
 

peter nap

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My original "soft spot" theory was apparently flawed - fontanelles normal fuse before 3 years of age.

Nevertheless found this related to the physics of a bullet not fired straight up:

Firearms expert Julian Hatcher has studied falling bullets and found that on average .30 caliber rounds reach terminal velocities of 300 feet per second (90 m/s) and larger .50 caliber bullets have a terminal velocity of 500 feet per second (150 m/s). A bullet traveling at only 150 feet per second (46 m/s) to 170 feet per second (52 m/s) can easily penetrate human skin and at 200 feet per second (60 m/s), that same bullet can penetrate the skull. Even a bullet that does not penetrate the skull may still result in an intracranial injury.

Conclusion: Can be fatal.
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q...red-into-the-air-kill-a-person-when-they-fall

That's where the confusion is Grape, Hatcher discusses a bullet in an arc (lobbing) instead of in freefall (Shooting in the air). The Army did a series of studies on this and the bottom line (Granted with a lot of conflicting data) was in a true freefall (No forward thrust left), the bullet won't even hit the 120 MPH mark because it has lost its stabilizing spin and will tumble.

Yes, it could cause death from trauma but that's not what happened here.

It's not that I'm disputing the fact that the kid was killed by a stray shot, it's the phrase "Firing in the air" I object to.

That's like saying my holdover on a 1000 yard target is firing in the air.
 
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peter nap

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Grapeshot

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Still someone discharged their gun in an irresponsible manner resulting in the death of a young boy. Granted there is no cause/reason to presume that a CHP holder was involved nor cause to malign those that carry for personal defense. Unfortunately that is what this journalist does - that is why I accused him of "[highlight]yellow journalism[/highlight]".
 

peter nap

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Still someone discharged their gun in an irresponsible manner resulting in the death of a young boy. Granted there is no cause/reason to presume that a CHP holder was involved nor cause to malign those that carry for personal defense. Unfortunately that is what this journalist does - that is why I accused him of "[highlight]yellow journalism[/highlight]".

+1
 

builtjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
323
Location
South Chesterfield, VA
Indeed. I'm well aware of the fact that a falling bullet will not kill (actually know a guy who was struck by one, got a hell of a headache and a good knot on his noggin), however I've also seen more than a couple of our local idiots who seem to think that approximately 45° is far enough to aim upward.

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2
 

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
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3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
Agree with the assessments of flat-out biased "journalism"

BUT

I think we as gun owners should be loudly and publicly decrying behavior such as this. It is NOT what we stand for.
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
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2,508
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Secret Bunker
I think they should make anvil guns just for these people. They would be equipped with a sensor & only fire when the barrel was 90 degrees from the ground (pointing straight up). The range need only be a few feet. These should be given away free with obama phones. ;) Thus solving multiple problems at once. :D

Win-win! Just kidding...
 

Citizen

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Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP But what idiot fires a gun in the air? I deem this as criminal.

Are you genuinely surprised and considering such to be criminal? Or, just adopting that position?

If the latter, I'll be quiet.

If the former, don't forget our schools and culture stopped teaching firearm safety decades ago. Separately, its kinda hard to make it criminal without men rea. Some people really are that dumb and don't know any better. The solution is to teach them (before the tragedy happens). Personally, I've got little respect for the public school system. But, if we're going to be stuck with it, then it should teach some useful stuff like firearm safety.
 

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Are you genuinely surprised and considering such to be criminal? Or, just adopting that position?

If the latter, I'll be quiet.

If the former, don't forget our schools and culture stopped teaching firearm safety decades ago. Separately, its kinda hard to make it criminal without mens rea. Some people really are that dumb and don't know any better. The solution is to teach them (before the tragedy happens). Personally, I've got little respect for the public school system. But, if we're going to be stuck with it, then it should teach some useful stuff like firearm safety.
Re: Bolded section, surely you jest. Nearly EVERY gun-control law makes one a criminal without the required element of mens rea...

TFred
 

va_tazdad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,162
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
There is no shortage

of idiot gun owners or graduates of the "Dangerous" Dan Rather school of Yellow Journalism.

This incident has shown both unfortunately.

Hopefully, somebody saw what happened and will come forward so the child can at least have justice as he didn't have a chance for a full life.
 

Grapeshot

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of idiot gun owners or graduates of the "Dangerous" Dan Rather school of Yellow Journalism.

This incident has shown both unfortunately.

Hopefully, somebody saw what happened and will come forward so the child can at least have justice as he didn't have a chance for a full life.
Not likely that this person will ever be identified unless someone can trace the original arc of the shot definitely or ballistic markings have evolved to a level seen only on CSI :(
 

davidmcbeth

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Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Not likely that this person will ever be identified unless someone can trace the original arc of the shot definitely or ballistic markings have evolved to a level seen only on CSI :(

Its was Biden's wife ... next mystery!

Really, we don't have enough facts yet IMO.

But Biden's wife is a good likelihood.
 
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