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Thread: gathering data - is it really 40%?

  1. #1
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    gathering data - is it really 40%?

    I'm tired of reading about how 40% of gun sales supposedly don't have a background check.
    I'm going to do my own (completely unscientific) study.

    I don't want anything other than these 2 bits of information:
    1) how many guns do you own (right now, today; include ones that you're waiting to pick up from the dealer but have paid for)
    2) how many of those did _not_ involve a background check

    Use whatever email you want, no matter how obviously fake a name it is, and send your answers to me at mkegal.legal [AT] yahoo.com

    After I accumulate a decent response (however I choose to define that - I'm thinking a minimum of 100 guns), I'll publish the totals.

    I'm going to post this on some Facebook pages & other sites too, so please only answer once.
    Feel free to have your friends answer too.

  2. #2
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Any firearm you have acquired.
    The anti's are including gifts & inheritance, we should too.

    Current totals:
    531 owned, 205 without a check, 38.6 %

    It was running about 22% until I got several very dedicated collectors.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 07-08-2013 at 06:10 PM.

  3. #3
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    I'm not willing to say how many guns I own right now, but I can still recall every one I've ever aquired, blown up, or sold. Its kinda easy because there haven't been that many. I'm not so much a gun guy as I am a gun rights guy.

    The total aquired without a backround check amounts to 20%.


    Can I make a suggestion? Rather than refute the anti-gunners by doing your own study, maybe just dig the lies out of their data. Their anti-gunners. They've been caught lying, distorting, omitting, and improperly including things so many times, you can take to the bank the same underlies their current claims. Its practically guaranteed.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I'm not willing to say how many guns I own right now, .
    Bingo ! Good call.

  5. #5
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    i wonder how they count black powder guns and C&R goodies. Also, what about the toys from way before there were background checks. at this point i wouldnt even know how to count mine.

  6. #6
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    Hope this helps, I stopped buying from dealers a long time ago, only way I will is unless it is a very customized firearm.

    Universal Background Check Dog and Pony Show
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0EjOU0OCuA


    Fact Check—Obama: 40% of All Gun Sales Private?
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...es-Are-Private

    "So I started looking through databases for references to this figure, and I soon found myself reading a 2011 study by NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg titled, "Point, Click, Fire: An Investigation Into Illegal Online Gun Sales."

    According to the study, "40% of guns are sold through private sellers." Moreover, the study claims that "these sales—which take place in many venues, including gun shows and, increasingly, on the internet... fuel the black market for illegal guns."

    Many parts of this assertion are factually flawed or, at the least, very misleading.

    First off, the figure of 40% doesn't represent new guns but guns already in circulation, which are being resold on a secondary basis. The intimation that 40% of new guns are being sold illegally is simply myth-making at best, lying at worst."


    The 40% unchecked gun lie!
    http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-con...s-2561118.html

    "John Fund at National Review absolutely dismantles President Obama’s phony “40 percent of all gun purchases are conducted without a background check” factoid today. It’s astonishing just how absolutely and completely false this figure is. It’s not a little clever wordplay or a bit of disingenuous number-twisting from the President; it’s a flat-out lie, and he knows it.

    To summarize Fund’s case: the study that purportedly produced the 40 percent figure (which was actually 36 percent, but Obama rounded it up, presumably because he thinks his target audience can’t handle two-digit numbers) comes from a tiny survey of only 251 people, conducted twenty years ago, which means “most of the survey covered sales before the Brady Act instituted mandatory federal background checks in early 1994.

    And those who responded to this survey only thought they might have been buying guns from unlicensed dealers, based on their perception of the seller’s operation. No effort was made to verify if these impressions were accurate. Furthermore, the total included guns transferred as gifts or inheritances – transactions not even President Obama’s new proposals really crack down on."
    Last edited by zack991; 07-07-2013 at 11:10 AM.
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  7. #7
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well!!!

    37% hand guns. 60% long guns. About 46% of all my guns over all... But,, ive been back ground checked by an FFL about every other time ive bought in a legal private sale.
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 07-09-2013 at 03:26 AM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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  8. #8
    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    I, like alot of people would stew/skew/screw the totals. Being one of the last "boys" in my family, I have all the pass downs, and gifts, and well, I don't buy much from FFLs...
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

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  9. #9
    Regular Member djdavis75's Avatar
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    I'm not really comfortable disclosing how many firearms I own either, but I will say what percentage had or didn't have a background check at the time of purchase. I am omitting a few guns that belong to my kids, and the ones I no longer own. 33.33% were subject to a background check; however, 66.66% were purchased from a FFL, and if purchased today 66.66% would have been subject to a background check. The 33.33% were gifts from my dad, at least 1/2 of which I know he purchased new from an FFL.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafnhaf
    i wonder how they count ... C&R goodies...
    Guns purchased with a C&R should count as done with a background check. It's an FFL, and you had a background check when you got the license, same as a gun dealer.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  11. #11
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    100% did not involve background check
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 07-10-2013 at 03:20 AM.
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  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    100% did not involve background check

    But that's due in part to the fact that you are too young to buy from an FFL.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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  13. #13
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    But that's due in part to the fact that you are too young to buy from an FFL.
    That just cracked me up!!!!! I mean, it is true,,, EMN is OLD enough to buy, Own as many pistols, rifles, shot guns as he can carry, store,count! BUT in this day and age, where the antis are trying to pass any or all coccammy law to restore their control of the buying selling having bearing and keeping of all those evil GUNS!!! EMN! is too young to be background checked!!! Ha!!!!! Not that I don't trust him...
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    If you have delineated a difference between the non-FFL ones which were obtained legally vs illegally, this poll would have merit, as I suspect you're really trying to verify whether the 40% claim of "illegally-obtained" firearms is what you'd like to prove or debunk.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  15. #15
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    84% of my guns were acquired without a background check. That's because I'm a 58 year old guy who bought one gun in the last 30 years. Others were bought in early 1980's or were inherited from my dad.

    My answer is accurate, but not relevant to the point that anti-gunners are pressing. A better question would be how many of the firearms you purchased in the last 10 years were purchased without a background check.

  16. #16
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    But that's due in part to the fact that you are too young to buy from an FFL.
    I've bought long guns too...

    got one rifle as a gift, bought a shotgun private sale, and got a pistol as a gift.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    It should be 100%
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    It should be 100%
    My thought exactly.

    Until you break a law* and use a gun in the process or commit a felony crime, how many guns you buy or own is not any business of "The Government."
    That is not my opinion, or the opinion of the NRA. It is the opinion of the men who ratified the U.S. Constitution and signed their names to it.







    *A legitimate law that does not violate any of the provisions contained in Articles 1-10 of the U.S. Bill of Rights.
    Last edited by condition one 1911; 07-13-2013 at 11:33 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    52% checked, 48% no background check.....MANY of the non checked were purchased at "gun buybacks" via private party transfer.

    As my "collection" grows, the percentage checked will fall as I have all the firearms (calibers/types) I "need" and will now simply concentrate on private party transfer purchases of those I WANT (and/or are a good buy for investment purposes).
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  20. #20
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    0% for everything acquired prior to 1968.

    3 of 12 acquired since 1968 came through a FFL and have had a background check.

    Oh yes, and two of two I no longer have possession of were given as gifts to family members, no FGC,
    Last edited by hermannr; 07-15-2013 at 11:42 PM.

  21. #21
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    97% (rounded to nearest whole number) did not involve a background check.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    These statistics are probably very misleading.

    Many of us trade firearms back and forth among acquaintances and even friends. If you personally know each other, the firearm transfer did indeed involve a "background check." The value of personal knowledge was at least one time recognized by the state. For example, it used to be (maybe still is) that a Notary Public could notarize without ID if they personally knew the individual.

    Indeed, personal knowledge is actually MORE invasive than a government background check, which can only find things that have been officially reported to the government.

    I have a friend that works for the FBI. REGARDLESS of the background check, to be hired they will find many of your relatives and friends and ask them about you. They will do so every couple years while you work there, including talking to ex-wives.
    Last edited by MAC702; 07-18-2013 at 10:42 AM.
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    gathering data - is it really 40%?

    That number came from data that was acquired before NICS was in effect...

    My stance is that if you are not currently incarcerated or have relinquished your rights in some other way, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to pick one up off the shelf and purchase it.

  24. #24
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    None of my handguns involved a background check.

    All of my long guns did.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Black_water's Avatar
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    Didn't the 40% number come from some survey done in the 90's of only 300 people +/-?

    It is not really relevant though as they do not want to connect those sales to crimes. There is way too much data out there that shows that private sales (not straw purchases) don't really contribute to many guns on the streets.

    This article does a pretty good summation of how guns get to the street:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html

    Straw Purchases
    Corrupt FFL
    Guns lost, stolen missing from FFL
    Guys selling guns from the sources in this list
    Stolen

    It does not even touch personal sales.

    It is all politics and agenda. The left wants guns out of the hands of citizens. This is just a ruse to do it.

    The Sandy Hook shooter failed a background check. The VA Tech shooter passed.

    Background checks will solve nothing.

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