Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Permits Soar to Allow More Concealed Guns. WSJ 4 July 2013

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,151

    Permits Soar to Allow More Concealed Guns. WSJ 4 July 2013

    "A dozen states surveyed for this article, including Texas, Utah and Wisconsin, issued 537,000 permits last year, an 18% increase compared with a year prior and more than double the number issued in 2007. Early figures for 2013 show many states are on pace for their biggest year ever. About eight million Americans had concealed-carry permits as of last year, the Government Accountability Office said in what it called a conservative estimate."

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...575086702.html

    "Some leaders in law enforcement call the increasing requests for concealed-carry permits unwelcome, citing safety concerns. Thomas Dart, sheriff of Illinois's Cook County, which encompasses Chicago, said that although the effect on crime is disputed, more people carrying guns "makes our job more difficult." "Without the gun, it's a fistfight. With the gun, it's a shooting," he said."

    Research is split on whether more armed citizens deter or exacerbate gun violence. Economist John Lott, a conservative commentator and author of "More Guns, Less Crime," said data show concealed-carry laws reduce violent crime.

    But the National Research Council, part of the congressionally chartered National Academies, has disputed links between concealed-carry laws and drops in crime. And the Violence Policy Center, a nonprofit group that advocates for gun control, said that since 2007, concealed-carry permit holders have fatally shot about 500 people, that 128 of them have been convicted of manslaughter or homicide, and 36 have committed murder-suicides.
    Hmm, this is the second (meta)review survey of gun control published and that I found today. Wonder what's up.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-08-2013 at 08:16 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Ya know who really needs to carry ... DOGS.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    A few random thoughts:

    The WSJ is showing its partiality. They label Lott as a conservative, knowing that some will see that as bias. They refer to the National Research Council as "congressionally chartered," trying to give it an imprimatur of non-bias.

    Lott does not equivocate. He flat-out says that there is a statistical link between an armed citizenry and reduced violence. The NRC merely "disputes" this claim. It does not say that the claim is wrong. It does not assert that the opposite is true.

    The WSJ immediately goes on to quote a stat from a group with an anti-gun agenda as though it were part of the NRC study.

    OK, let's explore that stat anyway. CCP holders have shot 500 people since 2007. Let's see that's about six and a half years or about 80 people per year. That ain't many when you consider the total number of murders in the country each day, especially in areas that are "gun-free" or political divisions with strong gun control. Not to mention that less than half of them were murders. (I can't be any more precise because of the fuzzy way the numbers were presented. The 36 murder/suicides included how many murders or suicides?) What were the rest of the shootings? Self-defense? The advocacy group also conveniently fails to mention how many times a firearm stopped a crime without it having been fired!

    John Lott is an economist. He delved into ALL of these questions. As hard as he tried, he could not establish that increased legal gun ownership increased violent crime. He could not escape the conclusion that increased legal gun ownership reduces rates of violent crime.

    But, none of that matters, even is legal gun ownership increased violent crime dramatically, we have the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Until the antis can do away with that constitutional right, ALL of this gun-control crap is unconstitutional. And, even if they destroy the Second Amendment, making gun-control constitutional, I still have my God-given (or natural, if you prefer) right to defend myself. I, and many others, would immediately start exercising the hell outta that right if folks were to render the Constitution useless by removing the one Right that protects all the others.

  4. #4
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    Facts are stubborn things, statistics are more pliable. - attributed to Mark Twain
    What matters is knowing that you are not, and work very hard at not, becoming a statistic.

  5. #5
    Regular Member HP995's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    MO, USA
    Posts
    289
    Dart: Without the gun, it's a fistfight. With the gun, it's a shooting
    Clarify: Without the gun, it's a fistfight where the victim gets put in the hospital or worse, robbed, raped, held for ransom, or just kicked around for fun by thugs. And potentially knifed or shot if the thugs are packing.

    With the gun, it's a shooting in self-defense to protect the lives of innocent American citizens (caring about citizens is something that made this country great) or much more often the bad guys just flee without a bullet fired - I guess Dart really hates that. Bad for business.

    No doubt he's making remarks against law abiding citizen ownership based on the behavior of thugs, who bypass any laws and wouldn't be affected. Good for business.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,011
    So, more gun ownership under President Obama than the previous administration, and more concealed carry permits as well. And here I thought Pres. Obama was taking away all our right to gun ownership/carry with his vast dictatorial powers. I must be listening to the wrong people.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    398

    Re: Permits Soar to Allow More Concealed Guns. WSJ 4 July 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    So, more gun ownership under President Obama than the previous administration, and more concealed carry permits as well. And here I thought Pres. Obama was taking away all our right to gun ownership/carry with his vast dictatorial powers. I must be listening to the wrong people.
    He got all magazine using guns (which is probably close to half of all guns) constructively outlawed in Colorado.... Literally, because the law wasn't going to pass until he and the DNC made a massive personal push for it.

    Also, what people (until Colorado) were saying is that he wants to take guns away, not that he had done so.


    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,011
    Quote Originally Posted by arentol View Post
    He got all magazine using guns (which is probably close to half of all guns) constructively outlawed in Colorado.... Literally, because the law wasn't going to pass until he and the DNC made a massive personal push for it.

    Also, what people (until Colorado) were saying is that he wants to take guns away, not that he had done so.


    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    It was voted on by the state representatives. Don't make it sound like Pres. Obama forced it through with his imaginary dictatorial powers. It was a state decision.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bothell
    Posts
    586
    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    It was voted on by the state representatives. Don't make it sound like Pres. Obama forced it through with his imaginary dictatorial powers. It was a state decision.
    As if the people had a choice. A fair amount of crap gets passed that 1) the constituents don't like or 2) the constituents don't know or care. Then there are laws created that are fed from the DNC or GOP coffers. Colorado legislature passed laws hiding behind hysteria and false information that has been debunked by numerous people. Just like in Connecticut.
    Last edited by mikeyb; 07-11-2013 at 06:02 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •