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Thread: When to contact the attorney general or VCDL

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    When to contact the attorney general or VCDL

    I've been open carrying 3 years and finally decided to get my CHP in VA. VA is a shall issue state and it is guaranteed to be issued or denied within 45 days. I'm on day 50 and it still hasn't even been processed. I know this isn't open carry related, but you guys seem like the most knowledgeable of the pistol packin' crowd. Input?

    Thanks!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTuckFard View Post
    I've been open carrying 3 years and finally decided to get my CHP in VA. VA is a shall issue state and it is guaranteed to be issued or denied within 45 days. I'm on day 50 and it still hasn't even been processed. I know this isn't open carry related, but you guys seem like the most knowledgeable of the pistol packin' crowd. Input?

    Thanks!
    Welcome to the forum and since you only have 3 posts.....I won't say what I usually do about CHP's, CHP questions or dog hunters.

    1. The Attorney General can't and won't be able to do anything about it.

    2. An Attorney will charge you $500.00 and up to tell you what I'm going to say in #3.

    3. Go to the Clerks office, ask if it's been declined and if not, get a temporary permit from him/her.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    You don't say in which municipality; nevertheless, go pick up/demand your de facto permit.

    C. The court shall issue the permit via United States mail and notify the State Police of the issuance of the permit within 45 days of receipt of the completed application unless it is determined that the applicant is disqualified. Any order denying issuance of the permit shall be in accordance with 18.2-308.08. If the applicant is later found by the court to be disqualified after a five-year permit has been issued, the permit shall be revoked.

    18.2-308.05. Issuance of a de facto permit.
    If the court has not issued the permit or determined that the applicant is disqualified within 45 days of the date of receipt noted on the application, the clerk shall certify on the application that the 45-day period has expired, and mail or send via electronic mail a copy of the certified application to the applicant within five business days of the expiration of the 45-day period. The certified application shall serve as a de facto permit, which shall expire 90 days after issuance, and shall be recognized as a valid concealed handgun permit when presented with a valid government-issued photo identification pursuant to subsection A of 18.2-308.01, until the court issues a five-year permit or finds the applicant to be disqualified. If the applicant is found to be disqualified after the de facto permit is issued, the applicant shall surrender the de facto permit to the court and the disqualification shall be deemed a denial of the permit and a revocation of the de facto permit.

    http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...1+ful+CHAP0746
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Oh....

    4. The more detailed answer you just got was from a VCDL Board member.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    You might be well-served to print out what the Venerable Grapeshot has posted and take it with.

    Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

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    Regular Member speed41ae's Avatar
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    Looks like he is in Dickerson County.

    Clintwood is a town in Dickenson County, Virginia, United States. The population was 1,414 at the 2010 census. It is the county seat of Dickenson County.

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    Yep Dickenson County born and raised. I went down and spoke to them and they got on the ball. I mentioned getting my de facto and they pleaded with me to give them one more day and they would have it for me. They haven't even processed the application so apparently they REALLY don't want to issue a de facto permit if they will go through all of that in one day. I decided to be courteous and give them a couple days. After that, I'm demanding my de fatco permit.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTuckFard View Post
    Yep Dickenson County born and raised. I went down and spoke to them and they got on the ball. I mentioned getting my de facto and they pleaded with me to give them one more day and they would have it for me. They haven't even processed the application so apparently they REALLY don't want to issue a de facto permit if they will go through all of that in one day. I decided to be courteous and give them a couple days. After that, I'm demanding my de fatco permit.
    You are doing them no favor and yourself an injustice. Others who follow you will just have to deal with more of the same. IMHO there would appear to be malfesance in office - failure to even process your application at all.....that is serious stuff.

    The de facto permit is little more than a date stamped & certified as received copy of your application. They can give you that while you wait.

    Clerk of Circuit Court: Richard W. Edward
    P. O. Box 190
    293 Clintwood Main Street
    Clintwood, VA 24228-0190
    Phone: (276) 926-1616
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-08-2013 at 12:10 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTuckFard View Post
    Yep Dickenson County born and raised. I went down and spoke to them and they got on the ball. I mentioned getting my de facto and they pleaded with me to give them one more day and they would have it for me. They haven't even processed the application so apparently they REALLY don't want to issue a de facto permit if they will go through all of that in one day. I decided to be courteous and give them a couple days. After that, I'm demanding my de fatco permit.
    You are very generous. I would have been there on day 46 demanding my permit.

    Give them an inch.....
    James Reynolds

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTuckFard View Post
    Yep Dickenson County born and raised. I went down and spoke to them and they got on the ball. I mentioned getting my de facto and they pleaded with me to give them one more day and they would have it for me. They haven't even processed the application so apparently they REALLY don't want to issue a de facto permit if they will go through all of that in one day. I decided to be courteous and give them a couple days. After that, I'm demanding my de fatco permit.
    It's good to see another rural fellow here and i do understand that things are a tad less formal away from the burbs....but that law is in place for a reason. The truth is, no one should need a CHP but that aside, it shouldn't take any longer to process one than it does to buy a gun.

    45 days is an extraordinary amount of time. Not holding them to it just makes them prone to drag their feet and the next person will have to go through the "just one more day" routine.

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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    SNIP... The truth is, no one should need a CHP but that aside, it shouldn't take any longer to process one than it does to buy a gun.

    45 days is an extraordinary amount of time. Not holding them to it just makes them prone to drag their feet and the next person will have to go through the "just one more day" routine.
    +1, You should hold them to the standard or the standard drops more. (govt work isn't all that high to begin with)
    What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade

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    Demanded my de facto permit and didn't get it.

    I spoke to the circuit court clerk and asked for my de facto. He said he was on lunch and told me to come back later. This was at 2:15PM. I sat down and waited in the office. After I stuck around, he then told me he didn't know when he could issue it because it was in the judges office and the judge was out. I was nice and explained that it was nothing against the court and that I only wanted there to be a record that the court was late issuing my permit. He accused me of having a vendetta against him and told me that they held me on the background check to conduct a more thorough one because I didn't consent to the search to enter the courthouse when I first applied.

    I also found out that they had contacted my personal acquaintances to question them about me.

    He told me they would issue my actual permit tomorrow and there was no need for a de facto permit, thus no record the court was late.

    I'm a little upset to say the least.
    Last edited by TacticalTuckFard; 07-08-2013 at 03:21 PM.

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTuckFard View Post
    I spoke to the circuit court clerk and asked for my de facto. He said he was on lunch and told me to come back later. This was at 2:15PM. I sat down and waited in the office. After I stuck around, he then told me he didn't know when he could issue it because it was in the judges office and the judge was out. I was nice and explained that it was nothing against the court and that I only wanted there to be a record that the court was late issuing my permit. He accused me of having a vendetta against him and told me that they held me on the background check to conduct a more thorough one because I didn't consent to the search to enter the courthouse when I first applied.

    I also found out that they had contacted my personal acquaintances to question them about me.

    He told me they would issue my actual permit tomorrow and there was no need for a de facto permit.

    I'm a little upset to say the least.
    I'd raise hell about it!

    But, the Clerk will get away with it. He can send the Temporary permit in the mail up to five days after expiration of the 45 days, which has already happened...but since they intend to issue it tomorrow (I'd be there at 9:00AM) there isn't time to appeal it to the Judge.

    This may also be normal procedure for them. We'll never know because all the applications are secret now.
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-08-2013 at 03:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTuckFard View Post
    Yep Dickenson County born and raised. I went down and spoke to them and they got on the ball. I mentioned getting my de facto and they pleaded with me to give them one more day and they would have it for me. They haven't even processed the application so apparently they REALLY don't want to issue a de facto permit if they will go through all of that in one day. I decided to be courteous and give them a couple days. After that, I'm demanding my de fatco permit.
    Whenever an official asks for more time or for you to do this or that ... it ain't never for your benefit ...

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTuckFard View Post
    I spoke to the circuit court clerk and asked for my de facto. He said he was on lunch and told me to come back later. This was at 2:15PM. I sat down and waited in the office. After I stuck around, he then told me he didn't know when he could issue it because it was in the judges office and the judge was out. I was nice and explained that it was nothing against the court and that I only wanted there to be a record that the court was late issuing my permit. He accused me of having a vendetta against him and told me that they held me on the background check to conduct a more thorough one because I didn't consent to the search to enter the courthouse when I first applied.

    I also found out that they had contacted my personal acquaintances to question them about me.

    He told me they would issue my actual permit tomorrow and there was no need for a de facto permit, thus no record the court was late.

    I'm a little upset to say the least.
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'd raise hell about it!

    But, the Clerk will get away with it. He can send the Temporary permit in the mail up to five days after expiration of the 45 days, which has already happened...but since they intend to issue it tomorrow (I'd be there at 9:00AM) there isn't time to appeal it to the Judge.

    This may also be normal procedure for them. We'll never know because all the applications are secret now.
    If neither the permit or de facto permit are made available to you tomorrow, I suggest you contact the Clerk of the Va. Supreme Court.


    • Clerk of the Court - Patricia L. Harrington
      Chief Deputy Clerk - Doug Robelen
      Deputy Clerk - Ebby Edwards
      Deputy Clerk - Lesley Smith
    • Address - Supreme Court of Virginia
      P.O. Box 1315
      100 North Ninth Street, 5th Floor
      Richmond, VA 23219-1315
    • Phone - (804) 786-2251
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    So much for them "getting on the ball" and you being "courteous". All that happened was they were encouraged to stall and insult you further.
    What else was I supposed to do? If I don't get it tomorrow, I will be contacting the VA Clerk as Grapeshot pointed out. It's better to keep a level head and make sure the appropriate people are held accountable. If they stall, that's just better for me in court.
    Last edited by TacticalTuckFard; 07-08-2013 at 06:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTuckFard View Post
    What else was I supposed to do? If I don't get it tomorrow, I will be contacting the VA Clerk as Grapeshot pointed out. It's better to keep a level head and make sure the appropriate people are held accountable. If they stall, that's just better for me in court.
    No, no, no, no, no! Court is where you do not want to be. Go find the thread on getting Roanoke to issue a permit and the headaches of pursuing a Writ of Mandamus.

    The Code tells the Clerk what the deadline is, and what to do if for any reason they do not have information to outright deny you. It's called a temporary permit. It takes about 10 minutes for the Clerk to rummage around and remember where they last left their seal, and then you are out the door.

    Consider this from the other diretion - if you had a fine or court costs to pay, would the Clerk be willing to giver you an extra day or so to come up with the money? Didn't think so. So why are you letting them get by when they won't extend the same break to you?

    Or suppose you had a deadline at work to produce A or Alternative/Substitute A. You could do either one and say you met the deadline. How would your boss feel if you just did not feel like whipping up Alternative/Substitute A, even though it would take just a few minutes, because you were waiting to see if you could actually eventually produce A?

    You entered into an agreement with the Clerk - you turned in the required paperwork and paid the required fee. They accepted the pap[erwork and fee with the promise to give you a) your CHP within 45 calendar days, or b) your temporary premit on Day 46 if for some reason they could not issue the CHP, or c) notice of denial delivered within 45 calendar days. I hear folks in Dickinson County are big on manners. I also hear they are big on sticking to agreements they have made. In very blunt terms, the Clerk has just spit in your face and you are telling us you are willing to stand there and take it.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I'm very sorry that you took my remarks as a criticism of your actions. I only wanted to point out that they didn't do what they had promised to do and that being nice to these people only encourages them to disregard citizens even more. As far as what else you could have done, you could have done today what you say you'll do tomorrow. After all, you did ask for advice. It is your permit and your local government. Handle it any way you think best for you.
    I couldn't have done anything more today. He refused my defacto by saying he didn't have access to my application, lying or not.
    Last edited by TacticalTuckFard; 07-08-2013 at 06:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I'm very sorry that you took my remarks as a criticism of your actions. I only wanted to point out that they didn't do what they had promised to do and that being nice to these people only encourages them to disregard citizens even more. As far as what else you could have done, you could have done today what you say you'll do tomorrow. After all, you did ask for advice. I'm sorry that my advice did not fit your needs. It is your permit and your local government. Handle it any way you think best for you.
    I did ask for advice, but what you gave wasn't really advice. You just complained about how I handled it. Tell me how you would handle it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    No, no, no, no, no! Court is where you do not want to be. Go find the thread on getting Roanoke to issue a permit and the headaches of pursuing a Writ of Mandamus.

    The Code tells the Clerk what the deadline is, and what to do if for any reason they do not have information to outright deny you. It's called a temporary permit. It takes about 10 minutes for the Clerk to rummage around and remember where they last left their seal, and then you are out the door.

    Consider this from the other diretion - if you had a fine or court costs to pay, would the Clerk be willing to giver you an extra day or so to come up with the money? Didn't think so. So why are you letting them get by when they won't extend the same break to you?

    Or suppose you had a deadline at work to produce A or Alternative/Substitute A. You could do either one and say you met the deadline. How would your boss feel if you just did not feel like whipping up Alternative/Substitute A, even though it would take just a few minutes, because you were waiting to see if you could actually eventually produce A?

    You entered into an agreement with the Clerk - you turned in the required paperwork and paid the required fee. They accepted the pap[erwork and fee with the promise to give you a) your CHP within 45 calendar days, or b) your temporary premit on Day 46 if for some reason they could not issue the CHP, or c) notice of denial delivered within 45 calendar days. I hear folks in Dickinson County are big on manners. I also hear they are big on sticking to agreements they have made. In very blunt terms, the Clerk has just spit in your face and you are telling us you are willing to stand there and take it.

    stay safe.
    You make a very good point. What can I legally do if they do not give me my permit (de facto or actual permit) tomorrow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTuckFard View Post
    I couldn't have done anything more today. He refused my defacto by saying he didn't have access to my application, lying or not.
    Don't worry about it, you're doing fine. Just keep the pressure on them.

    Do you know if you spoke to the 'actual' Clerk of Court... or one of the 'assistants'? If you didn't speak to the actual clerk, request to speak directly with them regarding your issue. They may be more helpful (perhaps not....).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    Don't worry about it, you're doing fine. Just keep the pressure on them.

    Do you know if you spoke to the 'actual' Clerk of Court... or one of the 'assistants'? If you didn't speak to the actual clerk, request to speak directly with them regarding your issue. They may be more helpful (perhaps not....).
    I spoke directly to the clerk. If he "can't get to my application" tomorrow, I'll have to take legal action against them. What I'm trying to find out is "What can I do and who do I contact from here?"

    I would love to go down there and raise Cain, but that won't do much for my fellow citizens who apply later. I want to get the people responsible for this fired, or fined, etc...

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTuckFard View Post
    I couldn't have done anything more today. He refused my defacto by saying he didn't have access to my application, lying or not.
    How does a Clerk of the Circuit Court not have access to a record of the Circuit Court, to which he is charged with maintaining as the Custodian?

    Is there a mouse running around with a file in his mouth, or is the Clerk just THAT inept at his job?
    James Reynolds

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    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    How does a Clerk of the Circuit Court not have access to a record of the Circuit Court, to which he is charged with maintaining as the Custodian?

    Is there a mouse running around with a file in his mouth, or is the Clerk just THAT inept at his job?
    My guess is he outright lied to me.
    Last edited by TacticalTuckFard; 07-08-2013 at 07:24 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTuckFard View Post
    I spoke directly to the clerk. If he "can't get to my application" tomorrow, I'll have to take legal action against them. What I'm trying to find out is "What can I do and who do I contact from here?"

    I would love to go down there and raise Cain, but that won't do much for my fellow citizens who apply later. I want to get the people responsible for this fired, or fined, etc...
    Have you been reading what Grapeshot and others have been writing up there? Demand the stupid defacto permit, accept only YES for an answer. That is the code, and they shall follow it. Demand it.

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