• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

When to contact the attorney general or VCDL

TacticalTuckFard

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
18
Location
Clintwood, VA
I've been open carrying 3 years and finally decided to get my CHP in VA. VA is a shall issue state and it is guaranteed to be issued or denied within 45 days. I'm on day 50 and it still hasn't even been processed. I know this isn't open carry related, but you guys seem like the most knowledgeable of the pistol packin' crowd. Input?

Thanks!
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
I've been open carrying 3 years and finally decided to get my CHP in VA. VA is a shall issue state and it is guaranteed to be issued or denied within 45 days. I'm on day 50 and it still hasn't even been processed. I know this isn't open carry related, but you guys seem like the most knowledgeable of the pistol packin' crowd. Input?

Thanks!

Welcome to the forum and since you only have 3 posts.....I won't say what I usually do about CHP's, CHP questions or dog hunters.

1. The Attorney General can't and won't be able to do anything about it.

2. An Attorney will charge you $500.00 and up to tell you what I'm going to say in #3.

3. Go to the Clerks office, ask if it's been declined and if not, get a temporary permit from him/her.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
You don't say in which municipality; nevertheless, go pick up/demand your de facto permit.

C. The court shall issue the permit via United States mail and notify the State Police of the issuance of the permit within 45 days of receipt of the completed application unless it is determined that the applicant is disqualified. Any order denying issuance of the permit shall be in accordance with § 18.2-308.08. If the applicant is later found by the court to be disqualified after a five-year permit has been issued, the permit shall be revoked.

§ 18.2-308.05. Issuance of a de facto permit.
If the court has not issued the permit or determined that the applicant is disqualified within 45 days of the date of receipt noted on the application, the clerk shall certify on the application that the 45-day period has expired, and mail or send via electronic mail a copy of the certified application to the applicant within five business days of the expiration of the 45-day period. The certified application shall serve as a de facto permit, which shall expire 90 days after issuance, and shall be recognized as a valid concealed handgun permit when presented with a valid government-issued photo identification pursuant to subsection A of § 18.2-308.01, until the court issues a five-year permit or finds the applicant to be disqualified. If the applicant is found to be disqualified after the de facto permit is issued, the applicant shall surrender the de facto permit to the court and the disqualification shall be deemed a denial of the permit and a revocation of the de facto permit.

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?131+ful+CHAP0746
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Oh....

4. The more detailed answer you just got was from a VCDL Board member.:lol:
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
You might be well-served to print out what the Venerable Grapeshot has posted and take it with.

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
 

speed41ae

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
281
Location
Richmond, VA
Looks like he is in Dickerson County.

Clintwood is a town in Dickenson County, Virginia, United States. The population was 1,414 at the 2010 census. It is the county seat of Dickenson County.
 

TacticalTuckFard

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
18
Location
Clintwood, VA
Yep Dickenson County born and raised. I went down and spoke to them and they got on the ball. I mentioned getting my de facto and they pleaded with me to give them one more day and they would have it for me. They haven't even processed the application so apparently they REALLY don't want to issue a de facto permit if they will go through all of that in one day. I decided to be courteous and give them a couple days. After that, I'm demanding my de fatco permit.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Yep Dickenson County born and raised. I went down and spoke to them and they got on the ball. I mentioned getting my de facto and they pleaded with me to give them one more day and they would have it for me. They haven't even processed the application so apparently they REALLY don't want to issue a de facto permit if they will go through all of that in one day. I decided to be courteous and give them a couple days. After that, I'm demanding my de fatco permit.
You are doing them no favor and yourself an injustice. Others who follow you will just have to deal with more of the same. IMHO there would appear to be malfesance in office - failure to even process your application at all.....that is serious stuff.

The de facto permit is little more than a date stamped & certified as received copy of your application. They can give you that while you wait.

Clerk of Circuit Court: Richard W. Edward
P. O. Box 190
293 Clintwood Main Street
Clintwood, VA 24228-0190
Phone: (276) 926-1616
 
Last edited:

ProShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,663
Location
www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
Yep Dickenson County born and raised. I went down and spoke to them and they got on the ball. I mentioned getting my de facto and they pleaded with me to give them one more day and they would have it for me. They haven't even processed the application so apparently they REALLY don't want to issue a de facto permit if they will go through all of that in one day. I decided to be courteous and give them a couple days. After that, I'm demanding my de fatco permit.

You are very generous. I would have been there on day 46 demanding my permit.

Give them an inch.....
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Yep Dickenson County born and raised. I went down and spoke to them and they got on the ball. I mentioned getting my de facto and they pleaded with me to give them one more day and they would have it for me. They haven't even processed the application so apparently they REALLY don't want to issue a de facto permit if they will go through all of that in one day. I decided to be courteous and give them a couple days. After that, I'm demanding my de fatco permit.

It's good to see another rural fellow here and i do understand that things are a tad less formal away from the burbs....but that law is in place for a reason. The truth is, no one should need a CHP but that aside, it shouldn't take any longer to process one than it does to buy a gun.

45 days is an extraordinary amount of time. Not holding them to it just makes them prone to drag their feet and the next person will have to go through the "just one more day" routine.
 

ron73440

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
474
Location
Suffolk VA
SNIP... The truth is, no one should need a CHP but that aside, it shouldn't take any longer to process one than it does to buy a gun.

45 days is an extraordinary amount of time. Not holding them to it just makes them prone to drag their feet and the next person will have to go through the "just one more day" routine.

+1, You should hold them to the standard or the standard drops more. (govt work isn't all that high to begin with)
 

TacticalTuckFard

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
18
Location
Clintwood, VA
Demanded my de facto permit and didn't get it.

I spoke to the circuit court clerk and asked for my de facto. He said he was on lunch and told me to come back later. This was at 2:15PM. I sat down and waited in the office. After I stuck around, he then told me he didn't know when he could issue it because it was in the judges office and the judge was out. I was nice and explained that it was nothing against the court and that I only wanted there to be a record that the court was late issuing my permit. He accused me of having a vendetta against him and told me that they held me on the background check to conduct a more thorough one because I didn't consent to the search to enter the courthouse when I first applied.

I also found out that they had contacted my personal acquaintances to question them about me.

He told me they would issue my actual permit tomorrow and there was no need for a de facto permit, thus no record the court was late.

I'm a little upset to say the least.
 
Last edited:

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
I spoke to the circuit court clerk and asked for my de facto. He said he was on lunch and told me to come back later. This was at 2:15PM. I sat down and waited in the office. After I stuck around, he then told me he didn't know when he could issue it because it was in the judges office and the judge was out. I was nice and explained that it was nothing against the court and that I only wanted there to be a record that the court was late issuing my permit. He accused me of having a vendetta against him and told me that they held me on the background check to conduct a more thorough one because I didn't consent to the search to enter the courthouse when I first applied.

I also found out that they had contacted my personal acquaintances to question them about me.

He told me they would issue my actual permit tomorrow and there was no need for a de facto permit.

I'm a little upset to say the least.

I'd raise hell about it!

But, the Clerk will get away with it. He can send the Temporary permit in the mail up to five days after expiration of the 45 days, which has already happened...but since they intend to issue it tomorrow (I'd be there at 9:00AM) there isn't time to appeal it to the Judge.

This may also be normal procedure for them. We'll never know because all the applications are secret now.
 
Last edited:

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Yep Dickenson County born and raised. I went down and spoke to them and they got on the ball. I mentioned getting my de facto and they pleaded with me to give them one more day and they would have it for me. They haven't even processed the application so apparently they REALLY don't want to issue a de facto permit if they will go through all of that in one day. I decided to be courteous and give them a couple days. After that, I'm demanding my de fatco permit.

Whenever an official asks for more time or for you to do this or that ... it ain't never for your benefit ...
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I spoke to the circuit court clerk and asked for my de facto. He said he was on lunch and told me to come back later. This was at 2:15PM. I sat down and waited in the office. After I stuck around, he then told me he didn't know when he could issue it because it was in the judges office and the judge was out. I was nice and explained that it was nothing against the court and that I only wanted there to be a record that the court was late issuing my permit. He accused me of having a vendetta against him and told me that they held me on the background check to conduct a more thorough one because I didn't consent to the search to enter the courthouse when I first applied.

I also found out that they had contacted my personal acquaintances to question them about me.

He told me they would issue my actual permit tomorrow and there was no need for a de facto permit, thus no record the court was late.

I'm a little upset to say the least.

I'd raise hell about it!

But, the Clerk will get away with it. He can send the Temporary permit in the mail up to five days after expiration of the 45 days, which has already happened...but since they intend to issue it tomorrow (I'd be there at 9:00AM) there isn't time to appeal it to the Judge.

This may also be normal procedure for them. We'll never know because all the applications are secret now.

If neither the permit or de facto permit are made available to you tomorrow, I suggest you contact the Clerk of the Va. Supreme Court.


  • Clerk of the Court - Patricia L. Harrington
    Chief Deputy Clerk - Doug Robelen
    Deputy Clerk - Ebby Edwards
    Deputy Clerk - Lesley Smith
  • Address - Supreme Court of Virginia
    P.O. Box 1315
    100 North Ninth Street, 5th Floor
    Richmond, VA 23219-1315
  • Phone - (804) 786-2251
 

TacticalTuckFard

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
18
Location
Clintwood, VA
So much for them "getting on the ball" and you being "courteous". All that happened was they were encouraged to stall and insult you further.

What else was I supposed to do? If I don't get it tomorrow, I will be contacting the VA Clerk as Grapeshot pointed out. It's better to keep a level head and make sure the appropriate people are held accountable. If they stall, that's just better for me in court.
 
Last edited:

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
What else was I supposed to do? If I don't get it tomorrow, I will be contacting the VA Clerk as Grapeshot pointed out. It's better to keep a level head and make sure the appropriate people are held accountable. If they stall, that's just better for me in court.

No, no, no, no, no! Court is where you do not want to be. Go find the thread on getting Roanoke to issue a permit and the headaches of pursuing a Writ of Mandamus.

The Code tells the Clerk what the deadline is, and what to do if for any reason they do not have information to outright deny you. It's called a temporary permit. It takes about 10 minutes for the Clerk to rummage around and remember where they last left their seal, and then you are out the door.

Consider this from the other diretion - if you had a fine or court costs to pay, would the Clerk be willing to giver you an extra day or so to come up with the money? Didn't think so. So why are you letting them get by when they won't extend the same break to you?

Or suppose you had a deadline at work to produce A or Alternative/Substitute A. You could do either one and say you met the deadline. How would your boss feel if you just did not feel like whipping up Alternative/Substitute A, even though it would take just a few minutes, because you were waiting to see if you could actually eventually produce A?

You entered into an agreement with the Clerk - you turned in the required paperwork and paid the required fee. They accepted the pap[erwork and fee with the promise to give you a) your CHP within 45 calendar days, or b) your temporary premit on Day 46 if for some reason they could not issue the CHP, or c) notice of denial delivered within 45 calendar days. I hear folks in Dickinson County are big on manners. I also hear they are big on sticking to agreements they have made. In very blunt terms, the Clerk has just spit in your face and you are telling us you are willing to stand there and take it.

stay safe.
 

TacticalTuckFard

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
18
Location
Clintwood, VA
I'm very sorry that you took my remarks as a criticism of your actions. I only wanted to point out that they didn't do what they had promised to do and that being nice to these people only encourages them to disregard citizens even more. As far as what else you could have done, you could have done today what you say you'll do tomorrow. After all, you did ask for advice. It is your permit and your local government. Handle it any way you think best for you.

I couldn't have done anything more today. He refused my defacto by saying he didn't have access to my application, lying or not.
 
Last edited:

TacticalTuckFard

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
18
Location
Clintwood, VA
I'm very sorry that you took my remarks as a criticism of your actions. I only wanted to point out that they didn't do what they had promised to do and that being nice to these people only encourages them to disregard citizens even more. As far as what else you could have done, you could have done today what you say you'll do tomorrow. After all, you did ask for advice. I'm sorry that my advice did not fit your needs. It is your permit and your local government. Handle it any way you think best for you.

I did ask for advice, but what you gave wasn't really advice. You just complained about how I handled it. Tell me how you would handle it.
 

TacticalTuckFard

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
18
Location
Clintwood, VA
No, no, no, no, no! Court is where you do not want to be. Go find the thread on getting Roanoke to issue a permit and the headaches of pursuing a Writ of Mandamus.

The Code tells the Clerk what the deadline is, and what to do if for any reason they do not have information to outright deny you. It's called a temporary permit. It takes about 10 minutes for the Clerk to rummage around and remember where they last left their seal, and then you are out the door.

Consider this from the other diretion - if you had a fine or court costs to pay, would the Clerk be willing to giver you an extra day or so to come up with the money? Didn't think so. So why are you letting them get by when they won't extend the same break to you?

Or suppose you had a deadline at work to produce A or Alternative/Substitute A. You could do either one and say you met the deadline. How would your boss feel if you just did not feel like whipping up Alternative/Substitute A, even though it would take just a few minutes, because you were waiting to see if you could actually eventually produce A?

You entered into an agreement with the Clerk - you turned in the required paperwork and paid the required fee. They accepted the pap[erwork and fee with the promise to give you a) your CHP within 45 calendar days, or b) your temporary premit on Day 46 if for some reason they could not issue the CHP, or c) notice of denial delivered within 45 calendar days. I hear folks in Dickinson County are big on manners. I also hear they are big on sticking to agreements they have made. In very blunt terms, the Clerk has just spit in your face and you are telling us you are willing to stand there and take it.

stay safe.

You make a very good point. What can I legally do if they do not give me my permit (de facto or actual permit) tomorrow?
 
Top