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Thread: First Time Open Carrying & Open Carry Questions

  1. #1
    Regular Member djdavis75's Avatar
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    First Time Open Carrying & Open Carry Questions

    First off, I'm so glad I found this forum. It's been great reading others open carry experiences and learning more about open carry.

    I live in a very rural part of Southeast Oklahoma. So today I needed to go pick up somethings at two local stores. I decided to tuck the shirt in and leave my Glock 29 fully exposed. My first stop was a small walk up store. I walked up to the window, made my purchase, then loaded everything in my truck and left. I'm not sure if the clerk ever noticed my firearm, but nothing was said.

    Second, I stopped in another local store to pickup some groceries and miscellaneous items. I found myself intentionally trying to keep my gun facing a shelf and keep it out of view, I was just nervous being the first time I've open carried. Finally I had to walk up to the counter to checkout, my G29 in full view of everyone. I don't know if either of the people working behind the counter ever noticed I was carrying, nothing was ever said. There was an older gentleman standing behind me waiting as I checked out, and my step-son said he looked at my gun several times as he stood there waiting, but again, nothing was said. So overall, no problems at all open carrying today.

    We do have one local store that has posted a sign with a no guns/knives symbol. I asked the owner about the sign and she said it was in response to a local resident who brought a knife in the store and was cutting on himself. I told her it prohibited people with a handgun license from carrying inside the store. She told me she didn't mind people with a license carrying them in the store, but didn't offer to remove the sign either. I have not visited the store lately because of the sign and have been taking my business elsewhere. I respect the store owner had an issue, so I made her a new sign, and I am going to visit with her and ask if she is willing to replace her existing sign with the one I made. My sign has the same no guns/knives symbol, but says under the symbol "NO ILLEGAL GUNS" and on the next line "NO KNIVES", and in smaller print below says "FIREARMS CARRIED IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH THE OKLAHOMA SELF DEFENSE ACT ARE ALLOWED." Would a sign like this be ok to allow licensed carry but deal with the issue she is facing? Also I'm open to any suggestions on the wording, etc... before I present the sign to her.

    Finally I had a question about carrying outside, in a parking lot, of a business that prohibits lawful carry of a firearm. Let's say I go to a gas station that has pay at the pump. The store is posted with NO GUNS signs. Is it still lawful for me to open carry while pumping gas, or in the parking lot, as long as I don't enter the store with the gun?

    Thanks,
    David

  2. #2
    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djdavis75 View Post
    First off, I'm so glad I found this forum. It's been great reading others open carry experiences and learning more about open carry.

    I live in a very rural part of Southeast Oklahoma. So today I needed to go pick up somethings at two local stores. I decided to tuck the shirt in and leave my Glock 29 fully exposed. My first stop was a small walk up store. I walked up to the window, made my purchase, then loaded everything in my truck and left. I'm not sure if the clerk ever noticed my firearm, but nothing was said.

    Second, I stopped in another local store to pickup some groceries and miscellaneous items. I found myself intentionally trying to keep my gun facing a shelf and keep it out of view, I was just nervous being the first time I've open carried. Finally I had to walk up to the counter to checkout, my G29 in full view of everyone. I don't know if either of the people working behind the counter ever noticed I was carrying, nothing was ever said. There was an older gentleman standing behind me waiting as I checked out, and my step-son said he looked at my gun several times as he stood there waiting, but again, nothing was said. So overall, no problems at all open carrying today.

    We do have one local store that has posted a sign with a no guns/knives symbol. I asked the owner about the sign and she said it was in response to a local resident who brought a knife in the store and was cutting on himself. I told her it prohibited people with a handgun license from carrying inside the store. She told me she didn't mind people with a license carrying them in the store, but didn't offer to remove the sign either. I have not visited the store lately because of the sign and have been taking my business elsewhere. I respect the store owner had an issue, so I made her a new sign, and I am going to visit with her and ask if she is willing to replace her existing sign with the one I made. My sign has the same no guns/knives symbol, but says under the symbol "NO ILLEGAL GUNS" and on the next line "NO KNIVES", and in smaller print below says "FIREARMS CARRIED IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH THE OKLAHOMA SELF DEFENSE ACT ARE ALLOWED." Would a sign like this be ok to allow licensed carry but deal with the issue she is facing? Also I'm open to any suggestions on the wording, etc... before I present the sign to her.

    Finally I had a question about carrying outside, in a parking lot, of a business that prohibits lawful carry of a firearm. Let's say I go to a gas station that has pay at the pump. The store is posted with NO GUNS signs. Is it still lawful for me to open carry while pumping gas, or in the parking lot, as long as I don't enter the store with the gun?

    Thanks,
    David

    First off welcome to the world of Open Carry. What your asking is kind of interesting since they should have went over it in class but Ill try to detail it as much as possible. Signs in Oklahoma are still up in the air as to how far they can be enforced but even in the worst case scenario they simply will buy you a ticket to never being permitted on the property again and if you refuse to leave then a trespass charge. The only exceptions would be listed on Page 20 of your Open Carry manual.

    Parking lots are a green area on EVERY property with exception to schools and even then you have one exception to carry there and thats to drop off and pickup kids all the while staying with your vehicle. (I strongly suggest if you do this though you CCW just because I for one dont like the inside of jails even if in the right and can get off the charge)

    If your pumping gas the manager can at their choosing ask you to leave it in the car since your standing outside of it but I seriously doubt this will ever come to pass. Since this is so grey as to are you leaving it in the vehicle or not can cause lengthy court disputes I imagine most will simply tell you not to bring it in if they chose this route.

    As for signage i would just leave it with "No weapons except by valid permit holders" would work best. If you get the sentence too long believe me people wont even read it. Its kind of like if you go to an amusement park do you really read all 30 rules on the sign before you go in?

    Oh and I have carried for 17 years and still turn my firearm side away from people. Its not to hide my firearm though its just a tactical maneuver and its called an interogation stance.
    Last edited by Glock 1st fan; 07-08-2013 at 11:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member djdavis75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock 1st fan View Post
    First off welcome to the world of Open Carry. What your asking is kind of interesting since they should have went over it in class but Ill try to detail it as much as possible. Signs in Oklahoma are still up in the air as to how far they can be enforced but even in the worst case scenario they simply will buy you a ticket to never being permitted on the property again and if you refuse to leave then a trespass charge. The only exceptions would be listed on Page 20 of your Open Carry manual.
    I took my class in 2005, had my license for 5 years, which expired in 2010. Just renewed it this year. I probably need to set in on a class as a refresher course, but I have tried to stay up on the changes to the SDA. I know a business can post a no weapons sign to prohibit lawful carry of firearms in their business, and I know they can not prohibit me from leaving it in my vehicle. The carry in parking lots is, as you said, a grey area. I was just wanting some clarification on that.

    I appreciate the information. I will try to shorten the wording down on the sign.

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djdavis75 View Post
    I took my class in 2005, had my license for 5 years, which expired in 2010. Just renewed it this year. I probably need to set in on a class as a refresher course, but I have tried to stay up on the changes to the SDA. I know a business can post a no weapons sign to prohibit lawful carry of firearms in their business, and I know they can not prohibit me from leaving it in my vehicle. The carry in parking lots is, as you said, a grey area. I was just wanting some clarification on that.

    I appreciate the information. I will try to shorten the wording down on the sign.
    Cool if you want to save both time and headache just go to the OSBI website and click on the SDA handbook link. They actually have it online now so you can read it digitally. http://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA...k_NOV_2012.pdf

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    As for signage i would just leave it with "No weapons except by valid permit holders" would work best. If you get the sentence too long believe me people wont even read it. Its kind of like if you go to an amusement park do you really read all 30 rules on the sign before you go in?

    Interesting enough the Warren Theater signage on the doors implies "No open Carry" which by legal standards has nothing to do with the law, but more the personal wishes of the owner who supports legal firearms but appears to prefer not to cause any apprehension by its customers. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hamblin View Post
    As for signage i would just leave it with "No weapons except by valid permit holders" would work best. If you get the sentence too long believe me people wont even read it. Its kind of like if you go to an amusement park do you really read all 30 rules on the sign before you go in?

    Interesting enough the Warren Theater signage on the doors implies "No open Carry" which by legal standards has nothing to do with the law, but more the personal wishes of the owner who supports legal firearms but appears to prefer not to cause any apprehension by its customers. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
    Oklahoma has no requirements for posted signage. Here is the business owners rights section of law that will go into effect Nov 1:

    Quote Originally Posted by Title 21, section 1290.22
    A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, nothing contained in any provision of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall be construed to limit, restrict or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of any person, property owner, tenant, employer, place of worship or business entity to control the possession of weapons on any property owned or controlled by the person or business entity.

    B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, place of worship or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle.

    C. A property owner, tenant, employer, place of worship or business entity may prohibit any person from carrying a concealed or unconcealed firearm on the property. If the building or property is open to the public, the property owner, tenant, employer, place of worship or business entity shall post signs on or about the property stating such prohibition.

    D. The carrying of a concealed or unconcealed firearm by a person who has been issued a handgun license on property that has signs prohibiting the carrying of firearms shall not be deemed a criminal act but may subject the person to being denied entrance onto the property or removed from the property. If the person refuses to leave the property and a peace officer is summoned, the person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00).

    E. A person, corporation, place of worship or any other business entity that does or does not prohibit any individual except a convicted felon from carrying a loaded or unloaded, concealed or unconcealed weapon on property that the person, corporation, place of worship or other business entity owns, or has legal control of, is immune from any liability arising from that decision. Except for acts of gross negligence or willful or wanton misconduct, an employer who does or does not prohibit their employees from carrying a concealed or unconcealed weapon is immune from any liability arising from that decision. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to claims pursuant to the Workers' Compensation Code.
    It is clear that the law allows business owners to control the possession of firearms on their property however they want. The Warren theater is doing just that, they don't want open carry and they are well within their rights to post No Open Carry but still allow CC. They are the only theater in the metro area that I am aware of that does not completely ban firearms from their property. This part of the law did not change in the last legislative session so it is also the current law.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Regular Member okiephlyer's Avatar
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    WOW, three days and 99 posts. Welcome to the forum. Please join us at one of the meal get-together's and let us get to know you. And keep on postin'

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