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Thread: Important new open carry info!

  1. #1
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
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    Important new open carry info!

    So sunday i was at my LGS and a local LEO stopped to browse and make small talk. A friendly debate ensued, as I like to think I'm pretty d@*n sharp when it comes to firearms laws in VA, but here are a few things this LEO told me.

    No open carry in a vehicle. If you have your sidearm holstered on your hip,in your vehicle, and he can not clearly see it, you will be cited for CCing without a permit. (When he walked in I was strong side to the wall, he couldn't have seen it...was I carrying concealed?)

    No firearms in console or glove box. Must be out in the open or the ammunition must be seperate and firearm must be locked. (He later shifted to glove box was OK but it must be locked.)

    No open carry in VA Beach. Due to having more than 100,000 people. (When I said I open carry in VB weekly, I was told I am breaking the law. As is anyone else. He was a bit befuddled why a business would offer a discount for open carry in VB...since its illegal...)

    Then the whole why I'm going to have my sidearm stripped from me and be killed with it for OCing...not getting into that one.

    Just thought you guys should know these important changes in OC

    I will be emailing him a copy of the letter from the AG concerning glove box carry, and the VA state police website where it clearly states its legal in glove box and it does not have to be locked, as well as the case law. This cat is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  2. #2
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Important new open carry info!

    Oh for a second there I thought you thought that a LEO was actually a good source for the law. :P
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  3. #3
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Wow, that is one extremely ignorant law enforcement officer.



    TFred

  4. #4
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Let me guess. He is an LEO in VB or Chesapeake, and hasn't attended an inservice or roll call in 20 years, or is long retired.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  5. #5
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    That is just plain scary!

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Let me guess. He is an LEO in VB or Chesapeake, and hasn't attended an inservice or roll call in 20 years, or is long retired.
    IIRC HearseGuy is on the Eastern Shore. I was pretty sure they did not marry their cousins out that way, but one might have snuck past.

    A letter to this LEO's chief/sherrif should produce all sorts of giggles. Too bad you will not be able to be there when the LEO steps on the asbestos carpet.

    If you do write that letter, please share any response you receive.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  7. #7
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    I like to always look ahead and be prepared. If my path and this officer's should cross, what is the best thing I can/should do (outside having my recorder running)? Ask for a supervisor to be summoned?

  8. #8
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    I like to always look ahead and be prepared. If my path and this officer's should cross, what is the best thing I can/should do (outside having my recorder running)? Ask for a supervisor to be summoned?
    If he hassles you, yes that would be a good idea. This guy is clueless and unfortunately, he could make someone's life a little miserable. Best to make it his if he breaks the law and tries to make an illegal arrest.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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  9. #9
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    I wish that i had the finances and time to not cooperate with law enforcement officers like this, so that i could take them to court. However i do not have neither, so i would have to simply cooperate, record, and write a letter to the chief.

  10. #10
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    His name didn't happen to be...,

    Officer Rumplestiltskin did it? That guy needs to seriously wake up and get informed.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidestreet View Post
    Officer Rumplestiltskin did it? That guy needs to seriously wake up and get informed.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
    Umm. Rip Van Winkle maybe?

    This LEO's fairy tale involves straw that has been pre-used by the horses.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  12. #12
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Important new open carry info!

    Also I just thought of something:

    You OC in car and he gives you citation for CC w/o permit.

    Fast forward to court date.
    Defense attorney: officer smith, how did you discover that my client was carrying a handgun?
    Officer: I saw it.
    Defense attorney: well it must not have been concealed...
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  13. #13
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    Dang, you're right again, Skid...,

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Umm. Rip Van Winkle maybe?

    This LEO's fairy tale involves straw that has been pre-used by the horses.

    stay safe.
    thinking one, said the other, knew it started with "R", had a lot of syllables, oh well. I gotta get some rest, maybe 20 years worth, just call me..., uh, what's that name again? :P

    sidestreet (yawn)

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless. (just as soon as I've had a nap.)

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    A girl I knew in high school used a phrase that I have adopted - she didn't like the fact that I made fun of people - she said, "It's not funny, it's sad."

    I don't know, the cop may be dumb, or he may be from New Jersey. Or he may be trying out his technique for what I call, "dust in the eyes". That's my technical term for telling people legal-sounding cow excrement with the purpose of getting them to believe it's really true.

    But like my cousin, Vinny, said, "Everyt'ing dat guy said is bulls*. Thank you."

    However, there is this: " § 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty."
    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.
    ...
    Last edited by user; 07-09-2013 at 07:25 PM.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  15. #15
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post

    However, there is this: " § 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty."
    That's exactly what I said. The wording on that confused me when I first read it. Perhaps he skimmed it and is confused. I told him that almost word for word (he was a bit surprised).

    Needless to say Dan, with this cat on the loose, your number is on my ICE contact list in my phone.
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  16. #16
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    how does this guy keep his job

    I speak with several LEO's from the Tidewater area every week and have never been told OC was illegal, was even introduced to a to a Captain a couple of months ago while OC'ing. I'm not saying I never hear bad advise or the "I support your right to OC but I wouldn't if I were you". Years ago it was a Norfolk cop saying "you should carry a gun because we can't be everywhere" that made a huge impact on my decision to carry. Now they all agree in being responsible and taking as much training as you can, but never has any LEO I met ever told me I couldn't carry in VA Beach, etc.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    ....
    However, there is this: " § 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty."
    So you are saying that the 33-round Glock magazine may not be the best loadout? I can live with that.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  18. #18
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    English is a beautiful language but can be confusing at times. However one thing remains a constant. It is hierarchical in that what precedes something takes precedence unless otherwise corrected. For example, this is one sentence;

    "It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William."

    Note the first part which I have bolded. These are the conditions for which the rest follows and to which the rest must adhere. And the conjunction "or" is used which means any one of them applies. Had the word "and" been used, all must apply for any to be true (effective). So if your firearm does not fit any of the "or" conditions, you are perfectly safe. Me thinks the LEO in question cannot read English. Words do have meaning.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 07-10-2013 at 06:04 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    So you are saying that the 33-round Glock magazine may not be the best loadout? I can live with that.
    stay safe.
    § 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.
    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.


    The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    The exemptions set forth in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-10-2013 at 06:18 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Boy, are you ever poking the edge of the envelope. I can almost hear peter nap starting up his perks for permits rant.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  21. #21
    Regular Member DarthBrute's Avatar
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    Re: Important new open carry info!

    Quote Originally Posted by lil_shawn1990 View Post
    I wish that i had the finances and time to not cooperate with law enforcement officers like this, so that i could take them to court. However i do not have neither, so i would have to simply cooperate, record, and write a letter to the chief.
    I don't have the finances or time either. But I would make the time and request to speak to a supervisor.

    All it takes for a dam to break is one little drip.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_shawn1990 View Post
    I wish that i had the finances and time to not cooperate with law enforcement officers like this, so that i could take them to court. However i do not have neither, so i would have to simply cooperate, record, and write a letter to the chief.
    Sometimes, that's all that's necessary to get things corrected... making a person of authority aware of the issue, and asking them to resolve it. There have been a great number of issues related to local laws corrected because of nothing more than an email sent.

    Sometimes.... it does take more 'encouragement' than that...

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Boy, are you ever poking the edge of the envelope. I can almost hear peter nap starting up his perks for permits rant.

    stay safe.
    Doughna shoots the messengers - Ima just delving the details/facts.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Boy, are you ever poking the edge of the envelope. I can almost hear peter nap starting up his perks for permits rant.

    stay safe.
    Why would you ever say that? Itis a perfectly legitimate P4P "add on" that concealed HANDGUN permittees be accomodated for laws that are mostly for evil black RIFLES!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Why would you ever say that? Itis a perfectly legitimate P4P "add on" that concealed HANDGUN permittees be accomodated for laws that are mostly for evil black RIFLES!
    So you are saying that people without permits should not be allowed overkill?*

    stay safe.

    * - There is no such thing as too much money, too much fun, or too much ammo. And if you think you have both the first and the last, hire an ammo carrier and increase the middle. (I often wonder what the ammo fetchers at Knob Creek do between meets. Someone ought to make sure they stay employed throughout the year.)
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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