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Thread: Nikki Grosser speaks on her fight against GFZs

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Nikki Grosser speaks on her fight against GFZs

    http://www.inquisitr.com/836115/nikk...ed-my-husband/

    Nikki Goeser had a life most people only dream about. She was married to a great guy named Ben, and they were deeply and genuinely in love. Attractive, intelligent, and determined, Nikki graduated from university with a degree in psychology, she worked at a local college by day, and, at night, Nikki and Ben ran a professional Karaoke company that provided entertainment for several of Nashville’s clubs and bars. Then, in one terrible moment on April 2, 2009, her life was changed forever.

    Nikki first began to legally carry a gun after the kidnapping and murder of two University of Tennessee students in 2007, but, on that rainy April night two years later, she was forced to lock her gun in the glove compartment of her car due to the Tennessee law that forbade citizens with a carry permit from bringing their weapon into a restaurant or bar. Nikki was forced to watch in horror as a man who had been stalking her pumped six bullets from a .45 caliber pistol into Ben Goeser, ending his life and shattering Nikki’s existence.

    Since that terrible day, Nikki has worked tirelessly to eliminate the dangerous no carry zones that protect no one and make it easier for criminals to victimize law abiding citizens. After a prolonged political battle, she was finally successful is getting the law changed in Tennessee, but the victory came with potentially fatal flaw.
    Ms Goeser talks about the killing of her husband, the trial of his killer, and her efforts to eliminate GFZs. There are times when you might find you monitor getting blurry, and times when you will want to pop another blood pressure control pill. Well worth the read.

    stay safe.

    hat tip to David Hardy at http://armsandthelaw.com/

    Mea Culpa - I misspelled Ms Goeser's name twice. One I fixed but it seems I cannot fix the header. Mea Culpa.
    Last edited by skidmark; 07-09-2013 at 05:52 AM. Reason: mea culpa.
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    Not to detract from Nikki Goeser's efforts, the "fatal flaw" of which the article speaks, is neither fatal nor a flaw. It protects the property rights of restaurant and bar owners. Those who wish to carry into a bar or a restaurant should simply not patronize those places.

    All of the movie theaters in the area have now put up gun-buster signs. I just don't go to the movies anymore. Screw 'em.

    My right to carry does not trump anyone else's property rights. No right trumps any other.

    Again, I hope making this point does not detract from the point of the thread.

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    Well,,,No!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Not to detract from Nikki Goeser's efforts, the "fatal flaw" of which the article speaks, is neither fatal nor a flaw. It protects the property rights of restaurant and bar owners. Those who wish to carry into a bar or a restaurant should simply not patronize those places.

    All of the movie theaters in the area have now put up gun-buster signs. I just don't go to the movies anymore. Screw 'em.

    My right to carry does not trump anyone else's property rights. No right trumps any other.

    Again, I hope making this point does not detract from the point of the thread.
    Actually, you are WRONG!!! The state doesn't protect property Rights for bars and restaurants,, it takes Rights away from them. The bars and restaurants should retain their Right to decide for their own private business,,, then the patrons would really be free to decide on which bar or restaurant they wish to patronize..If some rights cant trump other rights, then laws should not trump our right to patronize the bar or restaurant, that resects our 2A Right, while lawfully armed, of our choice!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Nikki Grosser speaks on her fight against GFZs

    What wrong???

    I am responding to what the article says. It says that Goesser is fighting to take away the option to post a no guns sign, to force all bars and restaurants to allow carry. I am against that lack of choice for the property owners.

    If the article is misportraying the the State law, they are wrong, not me. Like I said, I am only responding to what the article said that Goesser is fighting for.

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    Last edited by eye95; 07-09-2013 at 08:12 AM.

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    Well,,,Dang!!!

    for eye95... I feel despicable!! Upon further review, I see my error, thanks for pointing it out for me and everybody else.. Her husband was disarmed and murdered in a restaurant in accordance with Tennessee Law.. This made her sad! She went on a quest, and tried hard, and convinced Tennessee to change this unconstitutional gun free criminal empowerment zone law... Woo Hoo!!! Good for her, and the whole state... Now the bars and restaurants still want to restrict the lawful carry of our 2A protections, that could have saved her husband, and now work in exactly the same way that the old state law worked, to disarm law abiding citizens in the past,,, the past, that was responsible for the unprotected murder of her husband!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    for eye95... I feel despicable!! Upon further review, I see my error, thanks for pointing it out for me and everybody else.. Her husband was disarmed and murdered in a restaurant in accordance with Tennessee Law.. This made her sad! She went on a quest, and tried hard, and convinced Tennessee to change this unconstitutional gun free criminal empowerment zone law... Woo Hoo!!! Good for her, and the whole state... Now the bars and restaurants still want to restrict the lawful carry of our 2A protections, that could have saved her husband, and now work in exactly the same way that the old state law worked, to disarm law abiding citizens in the past,,, the past, that was responsible for the unprotected murder of her husband!!
    So, there should be a law stating that I (or anyone) can walk on to YOUR property or into YOUR home armed, and you cannot do anything about it, right? That being said, if a business is open to the public, then I think they MAY possibly need to be held to different standards of allowing or disallowing weapons carry. At the very least, anyone who posts needs to be held civilly liable in STATUTE, not just in case law... it needs to be spelled out that any business who does NOT allow a person to provide for their own security is implicitly liable for any of their patrons' or guests' security.

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    He!!! He!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    So, there should be a law stating that I (or anyone) can walk on to YOUR property or into YOUR home armed, and you cannot do anything about it, right? That being said, if a business is open to the public, then I think they MAY possibly need to be held to different standards of allowing or disallowing weapons carry. At the very least, anyone who posts needs to be held civilly liable in STATUTE, not just in case law... it needs to be spelled out that any business who does NOT allow a person to provide for their own security is implicitly liable for any of their patrons' or guests' security.
    You a funny guy... I have heard this silly argument before... Not I Nor you , Nor anybody else thinks coming into my, or your, or anybody elses home, whether armed or not should be allowed by some law or statute,,, that would be BS,,, and you can see I never promoted such,, you just made it up, for me... We are talking about, Businesses of Public Accomidation.... In some states, there is law or statutes that protect businesses from liability IF they do NOT post,,,NO GUNS,,, signs.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Re: Nikki Grosser speaks on her fight against GFZs

    Please allow me address this:

    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    So, there should be a law stating that I (or anyone) can walk on to YOUR property or into YOUR home armed, and you cannot do anything about it, right?
    Private Residence != Business open to the public. Apples and Oranges, and an argument most commonly used by Anti's.

    That being said, if a business is open to the public, then I think they MAY possibly need to be held to different standards of allowing or disallowing weapons carry. At the very least, anyone who posts needs to be held civilly liable in STATUTE, not just in case law... it needs to be spelled out that any business who does NOT allow a person to provide for their own security is implicitly liable for any of their patrons' or guests' security.
    A person is no safer in a bar than they are at Wal-Mart, yet WM follows state law in regards to carry. Would you expect WM to accept civil liability if they denied carrying in their stores?

    Back to bars. Example: Here in NV people can and often do carry into bars (casinos are a much different story as far as OC), yet I can't find a story where anything bad has happened inside a bar due to this practice. The stupidity happens out in the parking lots, and it's usually somehow gang related, or a random robbery.

    As a matter-of-fact, though it's really never a good idea to test this law, one can be carrying outside the home and have up to a .10 BAL.

    That said, I'm not trying to slam you. I understand you're trying to make the case for Private Property rights, but please try to use examples that would equal each other.

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    The point I am trying to make is: WHY does a company who operates publicly have different property rights than a business (or private home) that does not? I'm not trying to be snarky or argumentative, I am trying to get a moral proof that a public business has their private property rights superseded by a person's right to self defense. As an aside, how can a public parking lot be posted "No Guns" in such a way that you cannot even SEE the sign until you are already on the property... you are technically breaking the law until you can get out of the lot! I am truly torn by this issue, but the core comes down to this, IMHO: Each person or business has ultimate rights over their property. (Public property is a different matter! Posting gov't buildings... MY buildings, is bull-pucky)

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    Nikki Grosser speaks on her fight against GFZs

    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    for eye95... I feel despicable!! Upon further review, I see my error, thanks for pointing it out for me and everybody else.. Her husband was disarmed and murdered in a restaurant in accordance with Tennessee Law.. This made her sad! She went on a quest, and tried hard, and convinced Tennessee to change this unconstitutional gun free criminal empowerment zone law... Woo Hoo!!! Good for her, and the whole state... Now the bars and restaurants still want to restrict the lawful carry of our 2A protections, that could have saved her husband, and now work in exactly the same way that the old state law worked, to disarm law abiding citizens in the past,,, the past, that was responsible for the unprotected murder of her husband!!
    Why are you working so hard to argue against something I am not saying???

    I am all for her efforts that changed the law. The only one single solitary issue that I am raising is to disagree with any effort that would FORCE bars and restaurants to allow carry. You see, I believe in their Liberty (even the freedom to be stupid) just as much as mine.

    I hope what I am saying is now clear enough to be seen through the misimpressions being left by your posts.

    Whether or not you get that is of no concern to me. If you now do and want to discuss this with me, great. Otherwise, I'll just discuss this with others. But I am done trying to explain this to you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    The point I am trying to make is: WHY does a company who operates publicly have different property rights than a business (or private home) that does not? I'm not trying to be snarky or argumentative, I am trying to get a moral proof that a public business has their private property rights superseded by a person's right to self defense. As an aside, how can a public parking lot be posted "No Guns" in such a way that you cannot even SEE the sign until you are already on the property... you are technically breaking the law until you can get out of the lot! I am truly torn by this issue, but the core comes down to this, IMHO: Each person or business has ultimate rights over their property. (Public property is a different matter! Posting gov't buildings... MY buildings, is bull-pucky)
    There is nothing wrong with your logic. A private business is just that... private. However, government intervention into private property rights has existed since the civil rights legislation. I can turn someone away from my house for any reason, but a business cannot turn people away based on race, gender etc...

    It is my argument that government should have no intervention in private property regardless if it's a business or not. But, since they usurped that authority, they should extend it to the civil right of self defense. As the law stands today, my right to choose how to defend myself in a business open to the public should not be disciminated against.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Why are you working so hard to argue against something I am not saying???

    I am all for her efforts that changed the law. The only one single solitary issue that I am raising is to disagree with any effort that would FORCE bars and restaurants to allow carry. You see, I believe in their Liberty (even the freedom to be stupid) just as much as mine.

    I hope what I am saying is now clear enough to be seen through the misimpressions being left by your posts.

    Whether or not you get that is of no concern to me. If you now do and want to discuss this with me, great. Otherwise, I'll just discuss this with others. But I am done trying to explain this to you.


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    It appears that you would disagree with the government preventing businesses from discriminating based on race religion etc... is that the case?
    Last edited by georg jetson; 07-09-2013 at 12:18 PM.

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    Re: Nikki Grosser speaks on her fight against GFZs

    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    The point I am trying to make is: WHY does a company who operates publicly have different property rights than a business (or private home) that does not? I'm not trying to be snarky or argumentative, I am trying to get a moral proof that a public business has their private property rights superseded by a person's right to self defense.
    A business that allows uncontrolled access (as opposed to, say, a venue where purses are searched and people are scanned with a metal detector on entry, i.e. nightclub or concert venue for example) has a much higher probability of bad stuff happening than a private home or a business that is closed to the public in general. Ergo, a greater need for self defense should the unthinkable occur.

    The rights of the business owner are still there, but if they want to maximize foot traffic and thereby revenue, it's not a good idea to alienate a huge (and very vocal) segment of the paying public.

    As an aside, how can a public parking lot be posted "No Guns" in such a way that you cannot even SEE the sign until you are already on the property... you are technically breaking the law until you can get out of the lot! I am truly torn by this issue, but the core comes down to this, IMHO: Each person or business has ultimate rights over their property. (Public property is a different matter! Posting gov't buildings... MY buildings, is bull-pucky)
    That is on the owner of the lot to properly post signage, though I will state here and now that gunbuster signs only give a warm and fuzzy feeling, nothing more, when it comes to private property. If you are in a state that has preemption over such things, and you have proof that you can produce that you in the right, continue on until you are asked to leave. When asked, do so right then, and take up the matter with someone in authority when safe to do do via phone, or, preferably e-mail so there's a paper trail.

    I agree with eye95: If they post gunbuster signs and they are adamant about it, I'll be happy to spend my money elsewhere.

    I almost forgot: Thank you for the lack of snark. I appreciate that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    It appears that you would disagree with the government preventing businesses from discriminating based on race religion etc... is that the case?
    I know you're not talking to me, but I disagree with it, if a business owner wants to be a racist ass, he should have the freedom to do so.

    I believe market forces would either close him down or force him to change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    I know you're not talking to me, but I disagree with it, if a business owner wants to be a racist ass, he should have the freedom to do so.

    I believe market forces would either close him down or force him to change.
    I don't know who he was talking to, but I will assume it is me.

    Yes. I absolutely disagree with government mandating associations in violation of the First Amendment. I absolutely believe that people have the God given (or natural, if you prefer) right to discriminate on any basis that they choose. Discrimination based on race is just plain moronic, but the function of government is not to make sure that folks don't do moronic things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I don't know who he was talking to, but I will assume it is me.

    Yes. I absolutely disagree with government mandating associations in violation of the First Amendment. I absolutely believe that people have the God given (or natural, if you prefer) right to discriminate on any basis that they choose. Discrimination based on race is just plain moronic, but the function of government is not to make sure that folks don't do moronic things.
    Eyes! You pulling your head out the sand a bit more everyday. You make me proud! ;D

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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    Eyes! You pulling your head out the sand a bit more everyday. You make me proud! ;D
    My name is not Eyes. It is eye or eye95.

    I don't give a rat's ass if I make you proud. I have zero respect for you.

    I have always held the belief about the tyrannical concept "public accommodations" as I have stated it in this thread. If you ever bothered to read what I write with understanding, you'd know this. You don't know this, so you must not be reading what I write with understanding.

    Moving on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    My name is not Eyes. It is eye or eye95.

    I don't give a rat's ass if I make you proud. I have zero respect for you.
    I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Just giving you some positive encouragement.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I have always held the belief about the tyrannical concept "public accommodations" as I have stated it in this thread. If you ever bothered to read what I write with understanding, you'd know this. You don't know this, so you must not be reading what I write with understanding.

    Moving on.
    You have made quite a few posts that contradict what you state here. However, as I mentioned, you're getting better all the time so... keep up the discovery process. It's easier to hear what people are saying when you take the sand from your ears.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 07-10-2013 at 09:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    I didn't mean to hurt your feeling. Just giving you some positive encouragement.

    You have made quite a few posts that contradict what you state here. However, as I mentioned, you're getting better all the time so... keep up the discovery process. It's easier to hear what people are saying when you take the sand from your ears.
    I have moved on, so I will not respond.

    This is merely a QFR, in case this thing edits its post to remove the arrogance or the lie in the second paragraph.

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    Re: Nikki Grosser speaks on her fight against GFZs

    Great post skid! To be clear - history has shown gun free zones only help criminals not law abiding citizens. Luby's in Texas many year's ago and many other tragic events since prove this, including this one. Why are we as a country so hell bent on protecting crime empowerment zones, is the real question?

    Summary - article talks about the 40 wounded in Luby's & the 23 killed. Ms. Hupp a survivor, talks about gun free zones.
    http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/02/18...er-defenseless
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 07-10-2013 at 10:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I have moved on, so I will not respond.

    This is merely a QFR, in case this thing edits its post to remove the arrogance or the lie in the second paragraph.
    ...and your sense of humor! Moving on without moving on. LOL!!! Brilliant!

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