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Thread: Condition of Bond: No firearms

  1. #1
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    Condition of Bond: No firearms

    Ok, I have a question for y'all...

    A guy gets arrested. He is released on bond. A special condition of that bond is that he may not possess a firearm (this person is not a felon and has never been convicted of any crime). Is this legal?

    And no, I'm not the one who got arrested .

  2. #2
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Yup it's legal, the bond holder can set a condition of going to church every Sunday, and if the bondee does not follow the instructions the bond can be revoked. Things more likely are not doing drugs, drinking, or associating with felons or criminals, and drug tests.

    Depending on the charge, how crowded the jail is, sometimes it would be better to sit and wait. For a person like me it would be costly to keep me locked up because of my health. It wouldn't take long before they would be pushing me out the door.

    I had a SIL who wrote a bad check to get new teeth. She refused to be bonded out, and refused any conditions of OR. As soon as she got her new teeth, she took OR. I think they should have made her pay for the teeth.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-09-2013 at 06:48 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Yup it's legal, the bond holder can set a condition of going to church every Sunday, and if the bondee does not follow the instructions the bond can be revoked. Things more likely are not doing drugs, drinking, or associating with felons or criminals, and drug tests.

    Depending on the charge, how crowded the jail is, sometimes it would be better to sit and wait. For a person like me it would be costly to keep me locked up because of my health. It wouldn't take long before they would be pushing me out the door.

    I had a SIL who wrote a bad check to get new teeth. She refused to be bonded out, and refused any conditions of OR. As soon as she got her new teeth, she took OR. I think they should have made her pay for the teeth.
    Well, sort of like that. They can say you must eat bologna sandwhiches for lunch, but they cannot go so far as to say you must go to church at all. They can tell you not to violate any of the laws of the Commonwealth (doing illegal drugs or legal drugs illegally), but they cannot totally prohibit consumption of alcoholic beverages - not even for 15th DUI arrest. They can make you submit to drug testing to prove you are not using illregal drugs or legal drugs illegally. They cannot restrict you right of association - at best tey can warn you that associating with certain types raises the chance of being arrested while on bond which might be a condition for revocation of the bond. If they can show a nexus between your crime and firearms they can say you cannot physically posses any during your period of bond. They cannot take away your right to possess (own) firearms until and unless you are convicted of a crime that makes you a prohibited person. Many folks on bond have a friend store their firearms for them. (If they said you could not posses any firearms in any meaing of that word it would require them to give you fair market value or violate the Taking Clause of the 5th Amendment. Bet you did not know that.)

    Ans no, a private bail bondsman cannot impose additional conditions other than verifying your continuing presence within the bounds of your bond. It's when you break bond that he gets to do stuff that if he were a government agent would be violations of your rights.

    In short. The devil is in the details. And in knowing your rights. Of course, if they are trying to violate those rights with inappropriate bond conditions you might have to sit in jail while your attorney argues the matter with the judge. WalkingWolf and I do not fear that so much, as to merely meet life-sustaining medical care will put a serious strain on any jail. I don't know about him, but most of my life-sustaining meds are NOT on the state formulary which means they are going to spend a few thousand dollars a day at the drug store. (And no, they cannot charge me for the costs. If I was not locked up I would meet them myself. But since I am locked up they must meet the costs.)

    stay safe.

    PS - having been a bureaucrat in state government addressing just these sorts of issues finally pays off.
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  4. #4
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info Skid.

    I never got into the bond writing game, but I have picked up a few on bond warrants. Those were fun days... LOL

    I should have been clear about the church as sarcasm. My early days were serving county warrants for a fee, while off duty. Occasionally we would get out of state requests to pick up bail jumpers. Good old days when I was young and dumb and didn't think nothing of going into the projects to load the car full of good citizens. No cell phones, and most times no radio.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I jumped on the church attendance like a hen on a june bug because it has in fact been tried more than once by more than one judge/magistrate. It's sort of like if you do not swat down every mention of doing it judges/magistrates - who might not have been aware of the specific mention - think it is OK to do. (Yes, it's one of those stupid human tricks that never seem to die, no matter how many stakes you drive through it's heart.)

    Picking up bond violators - allowed even on Sunday. http://supreme.justia.com/cases/fede.../366/case.html

    When bail is given, the principal is regarded as delivered to the custody of his sureties. Their dominion is a continuance of the original imprisonment. Whenever they choose to do so, they may seize him and deliver him up in their discharge; and if that cannot be done at once, they may imprison him until it can be done. They may exercise their rights in person or by agent. They may pursue him into another state; may arrest him on the Sabbath, and, if necessary, may break and enter his house for that purpose.
    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    OT:

    Yet when a routine restraining order (no allegation of gun crime) is issued in a civil matter (divorce) the party can be denied possession of firearms. So I've heard.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    OT:

    Yet when a routine restraining order (no allegation of gun crime) is issued in a civil matter (divorce) the party can be denied possession of firearms. So I've heard.
    You can thank Frank Lautenberg for that. (Just remember to wear your asbestos suit if doing so in person.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lautenberg

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  8. #8
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You can thank Frank Lautenberg for that. (Just remember to wear your asbestos suit if doing so in person.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lautenberg

    stay safe.
    I thought the federal law required that the restraining order include a finding that the individual represents a credible threat to the child or partner?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    I thought the federal law required that the restraining order include a finding that the individual represents a credible threat to the child or partner?
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

    ....

    (g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
    (1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

    (2) who is a fugitive from justice;

    (3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

    (4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;

    (5) who, being an alien—
    (A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or

    (B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));

    (6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

    (7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;

    (8) who is subject to a court order that—
    (A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;

    (B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and

    (C)
    (i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or

    (ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or

    (9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence,

    to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

    (h) It shall be unlawful for any individual, who to that individual’s knowledge and while being employed for any person described in any paragraph of subsection (g) of this section, in the course of such employment—
    (1) to receive, possess, or transport any firearm or ammunition in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce; or
    So, yes, you are less than wrong. However, please review Section C, ii (bolded above). Lots of "or"s up there.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  10. #10
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    Re: Condition of Bond: No firearms

    My father in law does the bondsman thing. Jot down any questions you may have here, and next time I see him, I'll ask.

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