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Thread: Top Ten Reasons Why You Should Not Talk to the Police

  1. #1
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Top Ten Reasons Why You Should Not Talk to the Police

    http://www.kirkpiccione.com/10-reasons-not-talk-police/

    I disagree with his statement that if they don't have evidence or suspect you of a crime they won't arrest you. BS they arrest people all the time knowing it will get dismissed, they just want to teach you a lesson.

    BUT the advice of not talking is sound, it most likely will not help and only hurt you.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    This is basically a transcript of the 45-minute long "Don't Talk To Police" video that everyone (hopefully) has seen.

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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    Top Ten Reasons Why You Should Not Talk to the Police

    people seem to not comprehend "anything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST YOU in a court of law"

    cops are there to find the guilty party not to be your friend.
    HOPE FOR THE BEST, EXPECT THE WORST, PREPARE FOR WAR

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Well, I sort of disagree, partially. There's a female officer who stops by my place of work on Friday or Saturday nights, and we talk for 5-25 minutes at a time, just shooting the bull. Then again, I'm working security, 11PM to 7AM, and she's on the same shift, and we're both just trying to stay awake. Friendly banter, essentially. Not a traffic or any other sort of stop.

    Over all, it depends a lot on the situation you're in. If I was stopped for something, that's totally different. It's like the last time I was stopped for speeding, and the cop asked me, "Do you know how fast you were going?" And I just said, "Yes I do." And that's all I said.
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 07-10-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    http://www.kirkpiccione.com/10-reasons-not-talk-police/

    I disagree with his statement that if they don't have evidence or suspect you of a crime they won't arrest you. BS they arrest people all the time knowing it will get dismissed, they just want to teach you a lesson.

    BUT the advice of not talking is sound, it most likely will not help and only hurt you.
    So very true, that is why a recorder that stores instantly on the internet is paramount. o.e. Qik.com

    The problem people have is that when someone believe they are innocent or in the right, there is a strong drive to explain and justify themselves.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Well, I sort of disagree, partially. There's a female officer who stops by my place of work on Friday or Saturday nights, and we talk for 5-25 minutes at a time, just shooting the bull. Then again, I'm working security, 11PM to 7AM, and she's on the same shift, and we're both just trying to stay awake. Friendly banter, essentially. Not a traffic or any other sort of stop.

    Over all, it depends a lot on the situation you're in. If I was stopped for something, that's totally different. It's like the last time I was stopped for speeding, and the cop asked me, "Do you know how fast you were going?" And I just said, "Yes I do." And that's all I said.
    When you are not the subject of a stop "talking to the police" in a friendly manner is a different story. Something you'll sometimes forget is that the police are people too.

    Knowing when you are being stopped, investigated, or being fished, is the trick.

    I'll say this being on friendly terms with most of our local PD. The usual shootin the crap small talk is ok by me.
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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey-r View Post
    This is basically a transcript of the 45-minute long "Don't Talk To Police" video that everyone (hopefully) has seen.
    And he gives credit to that at the bottom of his article.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    I boot them off my land .... that's my answer to any queries...

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    Bad Advice....

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    [URL]

    BUT the advice of not talking is sound, it most likely will not help and only hurt you.

    I disagree entirely. The inverse is actually true. You must talk. If you don't talk, it WILL hurt you. What you say is more important...and The Supreme Court of the United States agrees with me. Salinas v. Texas

    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-246_7l48.pdf

    Petitioner cannot benefit from that principle because it is undisputed that his interview with police was voluntary. As petitioner himself acknowledges, he agreed to accompany the officers to the station and ‘was free to leave at any time during the interview.’ Brief for Petitioner 2 – 3 (internal quotation marks omitted). That places petitioner’s situation outside the scope of Miranda and other cases in which we have held that various forms of governmental coercion prevented defendants from voluntarily invoking the privilege. - Justice Samuel Alito

    Justice Alito said that there are only two situations in which the right to remain silent exists without it being explicitly claimed: when a criminal defendant does not take the stand at trial, and when government coercion makes forfeiture of the privilege involuntary. Neither was present here and because Salinas did not expressly invoke the privilege against self-incrimination, the prosecutor could use his silence as evidence against him.

    Fundamentally: A person may not invoke the right to remain silent by being silent and not responding to police questions.

    From the ABA journal: "For criminal defense lawyers the lesson is clear: they must advise their clients who wish to remain silent to say so explicitly in all contexts. Otherwise, now, their silence before arrest in response to police questions can be used against them." You must explicitly say, "I wish to invoke my right to remain silent."

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    See Chavez v Martinez

    Also read- Is There A Right to Remain Silent? ( Coercive Interrogation and the Fifth Amendment After 9/11) By Alan M.Dershowitz.

    In some cases asking for immunity would be more prudent then remaining silent.
    After immunity is given, nothing can be used in the criminal prosecution case against the person getting immunity. Absent immunity I would suggest to invoke all your rights under the constitution and ask for counsel immediately.

    Read your states Immunity statutes for criminal prosecution.

    Dershowitz explains the theory and case law much better then I.

    My .02

    CCJ
    Last edited by countryclubjoe; 07-19-2013 at 12:28 AM.

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    My father was a cop .. I never talked to him .... lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockowner View Post
    I disagree entirely. The inverse is actually true. You must talk. If you don't talk, it WILL hurt you. What you say is more important...and The Supreme Court of the United States agrees with me. Salinas v. Texas

    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...2-246_7l48.pdf

    Petitioner cannot benefit from that principle because it is undisputed that his interview with police was voluntary. As petitioner himself acknowledges, he agreed to accompany the officers to the station and ‘was free to leave at any time during the interview.’ Brief for Petitioner 2 – 3 (internal quotation marks omitted). That places petitioner’s situation outside the scope of Miranda and other cases in which we have held that various forms of governmental coercion prevented defendants from voluntarily invoking the privilege. - Justice Samuel Alito

    Justice Alito said that there are only two situations in which the right to remain silent exists without it being explicitly claimed: when a criminal defendant does not take the stand at trial, and when government coercion makes forfeiture of the privilege involuntary. Neither was present here and because Salinas did not expressly invoke the privilege against self-incrimination, the prosecutor could use his silence as evidence against him.

    Fundamentally: A person may not invoke the right to remain silent by being silent and not responding to police questions.

    From the ABA journal: "For criminal defense lawyers the lesson is clear: they must advise their clients who wish to remain silent to say so explicitly in all contexts. Otherwise, now, their silence before arrest in response to police questions can be used against them." You must explicitly say, "I wish to invoke my right to remain silent."
    Miranda is about using stuff against you IF you talk.

    If you don't talk, there is no need to invoke the 5th amendment as there will be no evidence of your conversation to use against you. So remaining silent is just fine.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFC HALE View Post
    cops are there to find the guilty party make an arrest not to be your friend.
    Fixed it for you.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Miranda is about using stuff against you IF you talk.

    If you don't talk, there is no need to invoke the 5th amendment as there will be no evidence of your conversation to use against you. So remaining silent is just fine.
    That's not what Alito said.

    However, I agree that in practice the cited ruling will only bite you if you first agree to speak, then suddenly shut up without explicitly invoking the 5th.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    That's not what Alito said.

    However, I agree that in practice the cited ruling will only bite you if you first agree to speak, then suddenly shut up without explicitly invoking the 5th.
    I know what he said, I read that case when they ruled. In that case the person talked then suddenly stopped talking when asked if he had a shotgun. Since he had not been arrested at that point and didn't plead the 5th, the fact that he stopped talking to the police can NOW be used in court as a bit of evidence of possible guilt.

    My point is if you never talk they can say to a jury that he never said anything....SO? What does the jury take from that? A good defense attorney would explain that silence IS NOT proof of any guilt.

    So don't talk. BUT if one want's to say I invoke my right to remain silent, that can't hurt.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Okay - for the ADD folks in the crowd. Would you volunteer to be a punching/kicking bag for a MMA champion? No? Why not? Because you will get your a$$ beaten to a pulp! This also holds true for police. They are champions of finding violations of the law (even when there are none ) talking to them just aides them in breaking it off in your buttocks. Get it? Don't be stupid, just be polite & invoke your rights (to silence / and to an attorney).
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 07-20-2013 at 01:36 PM.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Why not just use their tactics?

    "Officer isn't it true that anything I say will be used against me in a court of law? If so do you advise me not to talk?"

    Answer every question. But answer it WITH a question. 'Am I legally required to do that...am I required by law to answer that question? Can you give me the cite for my records that demands that I answer that question, Sir'.

    Be respectful, be calm, use the opportunity. If the officer is confused ask 'Is it not my right to have you call a supervisor? If so please call a supervisor, sir and I'll wait here for him to get here'. When he gets there, just LISTEN, don't talk.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Miranda is about using stuff against you IF you talk.

    If you don't talk, there is no need to invoke the 5th amendment as there will be no evidence of your conversation to use against you. So remaining silent is just fine.
    Please go look up the Salinas decision cited above.

    TLDR version: the fact that you did not say anything can be used as the basis for showing guilt. If you are going to not answer any questions because the 5th Amendment says you cannot be made to incriminate yourself, you have to actually say you are invoking your 5th Amendment privilege.

    stay safe.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Please go look up the Salinas decision cited above.

    TLDR version: the fact that you did not say anything can be used as the basis for showing guilt. If you are going to not answer any questions because the 5th Amendment says you cannot be made to incriminate yourself, you have to actually say you are invoking your 5th Amendment privilege.

    stay safe.
    Did you see my response to that a few post above yours?
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  20. #20
    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    Top Ten Reasons Why You Should Not Talk to the Police

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Fixed it for you.
    arent you one of the whiners that complain when people FIFY posts???

    QFT.
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  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFC HALE View Post
    arent you one of the whiners that complain when people FIFY posts???
    Nope.

  22. #22
    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    Top Ten Reasons Why You Should Not Talk to the Police

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Yup.
    fixed it for you.
    HOPE FOR THE BEST, EXPECT THE WORST, PREPARE FOR WAR

  23. #23
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFC HALE View Post
    fixed it for you.
    ROFLMAO.

    I don't know if I've ever whined about it but, I do object strenuously to people going around doing FIFY posts. Specially my posts. If I'd meant to say it the way some people FIFY them, I'd have said it that way to begin with.

    So, if anyone want's to do FIFY on my posts, just remember, in my opinion, you're effing it up. And I don't really like that.

    Now, can we get back on topic?

    Thank you.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Why not just use their tactics?

    "Officer isn't it true that anything I say will be used against me in a court of law? If so do you advise me not to talk?"

    Answer every question. But answer it WITH a question. 'Am I legally required to do that...am I required by law to answer that question? Can you give me the cite for my records that demands that I answer that question, Sir'.

    Be respectful, be calm, use the opportunity. If the officer is confused ask 'Is it not my right to have you call a supervisor? If so please call a supervisor, sir and I'll wait here for him to get here'. When he gets there, just LISTEN, don't talk.
    I recommend that you do not heed this advice. The number one goal in a encounter with a LEO is to end the encounter. If he is going to detain you he will detain you. If he does not reasonably believe he can detain you he will let you walk away. End the encounter. If you do not reasonably believe that you are free to go, say nothing.....zero, zip, nadda. The only time you should talk is if you are hauled off to the station then invoke your 5A and request a attorney.....then zip it closed.

    The court also found no issue with the length of Pierson’s detention — 45 minutes by Pierson’s account and 37 minutes according to LCSO dispatch information and recording — citing precedent that explained, “When a [person]’s own conduct contributes to a delay, he or she may not complain that the resulting delay is unreasonable.” Pierson had requested Bassett call a supervisor to the scene.

    http://www.kemmerergazette.com/v2_ne...&story_id=3383

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...33#post1963733
    The case cited above is not about not talking, it was about not leaving, or asking to leave when it was determined that the plaintiff was not under arrest. "AM I FREE TO GO!?!?!?!?!?!"

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFC HALE View Post
    fixed it for you.


    Are you calling me a liar?

    Let's go down that road. It'll be fun.
    Last edited by marshaul; 07-23-2013 at 10:15 AM.

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