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OC in GSMNP

independence

Regular Member
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Jul 10, 2013
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339
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Tennessee
Hi. I live in TN and am somewhat new to OC. I usually CC but recently OCed to Walmart for the first time. It went quite well!!

I have a question about OCing in Great Smoky Mountain National Park. I am going to be camping in Elkmont on the TN side and wondered what the ramifications are if I briefly cross the border into NC while walking the trails. I did some reading on opencarry.org and handgunlaw.us but I am still not 100% on whether Swain or Haywood counties prohibit OC. Also, if you happen to know...How do the rangers on either side of the border react to OC? Are they cool with it?

Are the laws in NC the same as TN where in National Parks you can carry as long as you don't enter a federal building? On handgunlaw.us it didn't specifically mention National Parks.

Thanks!
 

Grapeshot

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National Parks (NPS) honor the laws of the state in which the park land exists.
You are correct as to no guns in federal facility where fed. emplyees normally work - note that a sign is required.

Simple quick check on state acceptance of OC:
http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103
 

independence

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Jul 10, 2013
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Tennessee
"Open carry is permissible in North Carolina. The state also has a preemption law that prevents county or municipal governments from enacting gun laws that are more restrictive than state law."
http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/North-Carolina-Gun-Laws.htm

Gotchya. I think what concerned me was...

http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=282

Additionally, under NC Code Chapter 14 § 160A.189, a city may by ordinance … regulate the display of firearms on the streets, sidewalks, alleys, or other public property.
 

chiefjason

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You are good to go. NC is a permitless OC state, so as long as you are legal to possess the firearm and you are not in a prohibited place you are good to go. I alway OC hiking up there. As for Rangers, I've only dealt with a couple on the Blue Ridge Parkway while OC'ing and there was no issue there. But I usually CC in the front country campgrounds and such. Makes my wife more happy.
 

independence

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Be advised that there is a difference between NPS and Federal Forest - both exist along the Blue Ridge side by sie. In some areas the roads and trails are NPS, but off these foot prints is NF, where OC is only allowed during recognized hunting season.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5066182.pdf

You mean carry in general, right - not just OC? According to this map, the National Forests are chunks of land generally separated from the average tourist attractions like Clingmans Dome and Cades Cove. True?

Hilarious that this law is still in effect in 2013:

"Because hunting on Sunday is prohibited, carrying a loaded gun on National Forest is not legal on Sunday even if it is the Sunday in the middle of the general firearms deer season.

Thanks for the help!
 

independence

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Tennessee
This is getting complicated, lol. For instance, I guess it's time to start researching whether it's hunting season or not. (I don't hunt so I wouldn't know.) I was considering OCing but now I'm starting to wonder if it would be better to just CC in case there are more mysterious laws that I don't know about.
 

Grapeshot

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We fight for uniformity in the laws and have made great strides, but meanwhile it does pay to be knowledgeable and research a lot. :)
 

chiefjason

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I hope I'm making the better and not worse. We will see.


Be advised that there is a difference between NPS and Federal Forest - both exist along the Blue Ridge side by sie. In some areas the roads and trails are NPS, but off these foot prints is NF, where OC is only allowed during recognized hunting season.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5066182.pdf

We got this fixed in NC in the last couple of years. I wrote a ton of emails, attended a few meetings, and tried to rally support. So I have kept up with it a lot. Basically, in NC you can OC or CC with a permit year round per NCWRC. The only exceptions are where the land OWNER prohibits it. There are a lot of lease agreements and other land use agreements between property holders and NCWRC. But our main issue is with the Army Corps of Engineers. All National Forest lands in NC fall under the category of Gamelands and are overseen mainly by NCWRC Game Wardens.

http://www.ncwildlife.org/Licensing/Regulations/FireArmsandConcealedCarry.aspx

Isn't there an Indian Reservation over there, too? Wonder what the laws are about carrying there.

If you have a permit, you would be better of CC'ing there. It's hard enough to get a straight answer from them on CC. Not sure they would give you a straight answer on OC. And the Reservation kind of gets to do what it wants in a lot of ways. I tried to get an answer and could not. Another member here or on DC finally got them to say they abide by state laws for CC. I rarely tell someone not to OC somewhere in NC, but until someone gets a straight answer it's probably better to CC or not go there if you prefer not to cover up.
 

chiefjason

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I just want to make this as a separate comment. We can parse the laws on NPS, NFS, State Park, Gamelands, etc if you like. But if you are visiting the Smokies, the entirety of the park is National Park Service. If you are not venturing out of the park you don't need to worry about the vagaries of other areas. If you are going outside the park, then ask away.

Because Grapeshot is right, there is NFS, Gamelands, and state park land butting right up to the Blue Ridge Parkway. But that is a separate park service unit from the Smokies. Although they do connect just outside of Cherokee. And it gets confusing in spots. And Walking Wolf is right that CC is the only current option in State parks in NC.
 

independence

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Tennessee
I just want to make this as a separate comment. We can parse the laws on NPS, NFS, State Park, Gamelands, etc if you like. But if you are visiting the Smokies, the entirety of the park is National Park Service. If you are not venturing out of the park you don't need to worry about the vagaries of other areas. If you are going outside the park, then ask away.

Because Grapeshot is right, there is NFS, Gamelands, and state park land butting right up to the Blue Ridge Parkway. But that is a separate park service unit from the Smokies. Although they do connect just outside of Cherokee. And it gets confusing in spots. And Walking Wolf is right that CC is the only current option in State parks in NC.

True, true... I guess what got me worried was this:

Be advised that there is a difference between NPS and Federal Forest - both exist along the Blue Ridge side by sie. In some areas the roads and trails are NPS, but off these foot prints is NF, where OC is only allowed during recognized hunting season.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5066182.pdf

I don't plan to do any back country or anything too adventurous because the wife does not dig hiking. So it sounds like that you are saying that if I mostly just stick to the normal touristy areas of GSMNP then I will be okay to OC?

What I am worried about is wandering 5 minutes off the beaten path and suddenly finding myself OCing in violation of the law.

EDIT: Sorry, I kept making typos, etc. so I edited this post a zillion times, lol.
 
Last edited:

chiefjason

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I've hiked and traveled the park extensively. I can tell you this. You can't be off the park hiking 5 minutes from any trailhead I can place, unless it's the north or south end of the AT. I can't think of but a couple of trails that venture off the park at all. So anything out of Elkmont, off of 441 between the TN and NC visitor center, or anything starting across from the river on Little River Road will be completely contained within the park.

Just don't carry in the visitors centers or rangers offices and you should be fine. And enjoy the trip. It's beautiful. And if you venture out to Cade's Cove, pack some patience or go on a weekday. It's a tiny little road that gets a lot of traffic. Very neat area though.
 

independence

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Jul 10, 2013
Messages
339
Location
Tennessee
I've hiked and traveled the park extensively. I can tell you this. You can't be off the park hiking 5 minutes from any trailhead I can place, unless it's the north or south end of the AT. I can't think of but a couple of trails that venture off the park at all. So anything out of Elkmont, off of 441 between the TN and NC visitor center, or anything starting across from the river on Little River Road will be completely contained within the park.

Just don't carry in the visitors centers or rangers offices and you should be fine. And enjoy the trip. It's beautiful. And if you venture out to Cade's Cove, pack some patience or go on a weekday. It's a tiny little road that gets a lot of traffic. Very neat area though.

Thanks! Maybe I will OC after all. Hmmm....Still thinking.....
 

independence

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Jul 10, 2013
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Location
Tennessee
Successful OC!

Thanks everybody for your input! I sincerely appreciate it. I went ahead and OCed at Elkmont campground, Cade's Cove, Abrams Falls, the sidewalk of a posted visitor's center, and on the side of the road while watching a bear. :D

It was a good experience and I had at least 3 rangers look right at my gun and not freak out. There were some sheeple who scowled at me, though. Seriously. I don't think they liked it too much. Very glad to report that things went well and I had a great time! Thanks!
 
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