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Thread: Washoe County officials ignore or don't know O.C law, RPD gets their bluff called.

  1. #1
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    Washoe County officials ignore or don't know O.C law, RPD gets their bluff called.

    Up until two weeks ago I was an independent contractor for Washoe County.
    I was a driver for the Gerlach senior citizens ( bus driver )

    I had been planning on quitting, so the whole affair was more amusing then critical- but it showed how much work
    we have to do in educating our public officials.

    I had only one passenger, a total moron.
    Being that I was driving a county vehicle I decided to open carry ( what is that law again 202. 36 something? )
    The bus overheated and Mr Moron got his underwear in a twist, I parked in the shade and waited for the supervisors to come and get the bus.
    While we were waiting Mr Moron decided to get upset at me carrying, he produced a leather sap and was waving it around saying "now I have a weapon too, I'll crack your skull if you make a move"

    I told him "that's nice, please put it away" ... He kept persisting in being threatening with his stupid little sap ( really, I carry a full size .40 caliber glock - he is a big guy but I can stop him in his tracks )
    After 3 times of him acting like a Dbag I told him "one more time I call the cops".
    Naturally he had to go ahead and threaten me again, so I called the cops.

    RPD got there the same time as my supervisors so I had to explain the situation about ten times to everyone, being outside I had my vest on so my sidearm was concealed - I had notified dispatch that I was armed and RPD was really cool about it, they didn't even look at my CCW or the sidearm.

    BUT ... one of the cops told me that "you have a CCW, you can't open carry, I can take your gun you know" instead of arguing with him I simply said "OK"
    My supervisor said "no guns are allowed on County property" instead of arguing with her I simply said "OK"

    The reason is my purpose was to get out of the hundred plus heat and go home, I wasn't there to protest or educate.

    They repeated this misinformation over and over again, I guess they were expecting an argument, or could tell I didn't believe a word they were saying ...
    I needed a ride back to Gerlach and if I didn't get one I would have spent the night in Reno with no money ( I live paycheck to paycheck ).

    They got me back to Gerlach and I quit the job, like I had been planning on all along.

    So now I do want to educate Washoe County and my former supervisors, BTW they're all pretty nice folks and I harbor no ill will towards them
    ( REDACTED... a nice attractive young lady. Alas, I'm ugly and she is married )

    So my plan is (if you kind folks can help me plan and execute this plan ) is to educate Washoe county senior center workers and supervisors and get them to change the signs on their doors to conform with the signs at the DMV.

    ( hey Reno/Sparks folks, when did they change the signs at DMV to "no concealed" instead of "no firearms" & who made that happen? )

    So, what do we do? Do we walk into the senior center and wait to get told to leave? Anyone is allowed inside, they allow non seniors to buy lunch there ( it's cheap too )
    should we meet up for a cheap lunch and wait for them to call the cops or is there a county attorney we can contact to explain our case to and he/she can send a memo out to the staff at the senior center that open carry is perfectly legal if there are no metal detectors at the doors?

    I really want all gov't buildings to have the same signs the DMV has so they are no longer allowed to treat us like second class citizens.
    Last edited by chrsjhnsn; 07-15-2013 at 07:57 PM. Reason: um if this goes beyond the OC forum I do not want to embarrass anyone

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    The cops did not do their job very well. It is illegal for a normal person to carry an impact weapon like a sap or baton in the state of Nevada. Your passenger should have been arrested.

    So they wrongly tell you what they think about you doing something, and ignore the actual real crime that was committed. Typical. I would definitely include this, and maybe see if you are still allowed to press charges. IMHO, you were threatened with that illegally-carried impact weapon.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The cops did not do their job very well. It is illegal for a normal person to carry an impact weapon like a sap or baton in the state of Nevada. Your passenger should have been arrested.

    So they wrongly tell you what they think about you doing something, and ignore the actual real crime that was committed. Typical. I would definitely include this, and maybe see if you are still allowed to press charges. IMHO, you were threatened with that illegally-carried impact weapon.
    I asked the cops about that, they said "yeah, its illegal but not high on our list of priorities" and while I really dislike Mr Moron, I want folks to carry weapons without fear of big bro - so I am not going to pursue charges.
    I now have no obligation to deal with Mr Moron so the matter is unlikely to be revisited, if attacked by anyone naturally I I'll defend my self.

    I want my former co-workers/supervisors informed of the law. That is all I want out of the whole thing.

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    Please provide photos of your former supervisor. Please!

    mbogo

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn
    I asked the cops about that, they said "yeah, its illegal but not high on our list of priorities" and while I really dislike Mr Moron, I want folks to carry weapons without fear of big bro - so I am not going to pursue charges.
    If he'd only been carrying it, there wouldn't have been a problem (even though that's illegal).
    He threatened you with it, several times. (That's a separate sort of illegal.)
    He tried to provoke you, an armed person. (Could be disorderly conduct; again, illegal.)
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    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    If he'd only been carrying it, there wouldn't have been a problem (even though that's illegal).
    He threatened you with it, several times. (That's a separate sort of illegal.)
    He tried to provoke you, an armed person. (Could be disorderly conduct; again, illegal.)
    THIS. You were THREATENED with an illegal weapon and the police turned a blind eye? WRONG. File a complaint and press charges against RPD. Quite literally you were the victim of a crime and they told you that YOU were the criminal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    I asked the cops about that, they said "yeah, its illegal but not high on our list of priorities" and while I really dislike Mr Moron, I want folks to carry weapons without fear of big bro - so I am not going to pursue charges.
    I now have no obligation to deal with Mr Moron so the matter is unlikely to be revisited, if attacked by anyone naturally I I'll defend my self.

    I want my former co-workers/supervisors informed of the law. That is all I want out of the whole thing.
    If, at this late date, all you are interested in is educating them, send a letter with reference to the proper NRS and let it drop. What more can you do?'

    Personally I think the guy that threatened you needs to be held accountable for his actions. I agree with you that people should not fear carrying defensive weapons. In this case however he was not in defense of himself, he was threatening you with aggression. If he was carrying a sap, a firearm or an ax doesn't matter. What matters is that he was threatening you with it. (And his tool was illegal, yours wasn't.)

    As for the cops, a complaint needs to be filled against the officers. A letter should be sent to the chief of police and copied to the mayor, city council members, the city manager (if you have one), the city attorney, and the press. Make sure you outline what law/laws were broken and not enforced. Look in the city charter and city codes to show what the duties/responsibilities of the police are. For instance here in Henderson we have an ordinance that REQUIRES the police to carry out federal/state law and local ordinances. Get an incident report and get the responding officers names.

    Don't allow them to make you the lawful firearm owner the bad guy while excusing the guy breaking the law. To do so just encourages the belief that we are somehow to be set apart from other citizens.

    Just my opinion.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    ...As for the cops, a complaint needs to be filled against the officers...
    OP: Notice how this is being emphasized by several of us?

    Please help us by following through. The reason police are the way they are is because we continue to let seemingly "small things" like this slide.
    Last edited by MAC702; 07-12-2013 at 09:32 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    I would probably still file a complaint, but cops have qualified immunity, It is based on discretionary activity. The fact that they chose not to do anything to the perpetrator is perfectly fine in the eyes of the law.

    You can go to www.ratemycop.com and give him a black mark. I have found that involving police departments often results in a net loss, no gain.

    As far as the Nevada DMV changing their signs, I will share the email thread:





    From: DTOM [dave@guerrillalawfare.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 10:59 AM
    Subject: Signs at the DMV
    To Whom it may concern,

    It has come to my attention, that the "No Firearms" signs posted in the windows and entrances, of the DMV offices, are contrary and misleading, and are not aligned with state law.


    The sign your Dept. posts, cites the NRS 202.3673, as not allowing any firearms in the building. Upon reading the Statute, it appears that the statute in question is limited to "concealed" firearms, and the permit-tees of such.

    While it is established that getting a concealed (permission slip) carry permit is the common way to go. some Nevadan's Choose not to hide their rights in their pocket nor under their shirt, This right has been acknowledged by the Nevada State Constitution.

    Article1 Section 11

    Sec. 11. Right to keep and bear arms; civil power supreme.
    1. Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes.
    2. The military shall be subordinate to the civil power; No standing army shall be maintained by this State in time of peace, and in time of War, no appropriation for a standing army shall be for a longer time than two years.
    [Amended in 1982. Proposed and passed by the 1979 legislature; agreed to and passed by the 1981 legislature; and approved and ratified by the people at the 1982 general election. See: Statutes of Nevada 1979, p. 1986; Statutes of Nevada 1981, p. 2083.]

    The DMV building is a public building, and not prohibited from weapons like a school or Court. This fact makes your sign "below" innaccurate. It is true that the state does indeed have the power to regulate "concealed" weapons, I ask that your signs be changed to accuratly reflect the law that is Cited.

    DTOM
    Las Vegas NV
    www.guerrillalawfare.com


    From: Tom Jacobs <tjacobs@dmv.nv.gov>
    To: "Don't Tread On Me"
    Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 2:08 PM
    Subject: RE: Signs at the DMV

    Mr. DTOM,
    You are correct. We are in the process of changing the signs.
    Tom Jacobs
    Chief Public Information Officer
    Nevada Dept. of Motor Vehicles
    775-684-4779

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    Every citizen is required to know every law in the land. No excuse for public officials, just like that there is no excuse for us.

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Every citizen is required to know every law in the land. No excuse for public officials, just like that there is no excuse for us.
    I could be wrong on this but it is my understanding that "ignorance of the law is no excuse" only applies to those who are arrested and charged with a crime. I don't believe that
    police are required to know the law.

    I'm guessing that many of them know the code as it applies to a given situation, but would be hard pressed to recite the actual text of the statute.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbogo470 View Post
    Please provide photos of your former supervisor....
    Oh yeah, and we are still waiting.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    DTOM is it OK if I cut and paste your excellent letter to pursue this matter?

    RENO/SPARKS people I am away for the summer but will visit every once in awhile, in the meantime do not open carry at the Washoe County Senior Service Center on 9th Street between Sutro/Wells.

    You only imagine you have the right, you actually really do not have the right.

    If you do not believe me Reno/Sparks folks, you can go there yourself and ask Leslie - she is the very attractive supervisor of the

    Washoe County Senior Service Center on 9th Street between Sutro/Wells.

    for those of you who are not in Reno/Sparks you can email her at
    lemwilliams@washoecounty.us







    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    I would probably still file a complaint, but cops have qualified immunity, It is based on discretionary activity. The fact that they chose not to do anything to the perpetrator is perfectly fine in the eyes of the law.

    You can go to www.ratemycop.com and give him a black mark. I have found that involving police departments often results in a net loss, no gain.

    As far as the Nevada DMV changing their signs, I will share the email thread:





    From: DTOM [dave@guerrillalawfare.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 10:59 AM
    Subject: Signs at the DMV
    To Whom it may concern,

    It has come to my attention, that the "No Firearms" signs posted in the windows and entrances, of the DMV offices, are contrary and misleading, and are not aligned with state law.


    The sign your Dept. posts, cites the NRS 202.3673, as not allowing any firearms in the building. Upon reading the Statute, it appears that the statute in question is limited to "concealed" firearms, and the permit-tees of such.

    While it is established that getting a concealed (permission slip) carry permit is the common way to go. some Nevadan's Choose not to hide their rights in their pocket nor under their shirt, This right has been acknowledged by the Nevada State Constitution.

    Article1 Section 11

    Sec. 11. Right to keep and bear arms; civil power supreme.
    1. Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes.
    2. The military shall be subordinate to the civil power; No standing army shall be maintained by this State in time of peace, and in time of War, no appropriation for a standing army shall be for a longer time than two years.
    [Amended in 1982. Proposed and passed by the 1979 legislature; agreed to and passed by the 1981 legislature; and approved and ratified by the people at the 1982 general election. See: Statutes of Nevada 1979, p. 1986; Statutes of Nevada 1981, p. 2083.]

    The DMV building is a public building, and not prohibited from weapons like a school or Court. This fact makes your sign "below" innaccurate. It is true that the state does indeed have the power to regulate "concealed" weapons, I ask that your signs be changed to accuratly reflect the law that is Cited.

    DTOM
    Las Vegas NV
    www.guerrillalawfare.com


    From: Tom Jacobs <tjacobs@dmv.nv.gov>
    To: "Don't Tread On Me"
    Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 2:08 PM
    Subject: RE: Signs at the DMV

    Mr. DTOM,
    You are correct. We are in the process of changing the signs.
    Tom Jacobs
    Chief Public Information Officer
    Nevada Dept. of Motor Vehicles
    775-684-4779

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    THIS. You were THREATENED with an illegal weapon and the police turned a blind eye? WRONG. File a complaint and press charges against RPD. Quite literally you were the victim of a crime and they told you that YOU were the criminal.

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    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    DTOM is it OK if I cut and paste your excellent letter to pursue this matter?

    RENO/SPARKS people I am away for the summer but will visit every once in awhile, in the meantime do not open carry at the Washoe County Senior Service Center on 9th Street between Sutro/Wells.

    You only imagine you have the right, you actually really do not have the right.

    If you do not believe me Reno/Sparks folks, you can go there yourself and ask Leslie - she is the very attractive supervisor of the

    Washoe County Senior Service Center on 9th Street between Sutro/Wells.

    for those of you who are not in Reno/Sparks you can email her at
    lemwilliams@washoecounty.us

    Yes of course feel free to put your twist on it... be ready to send 5-10 more as some agency's are less responsive than others.

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    I am not going to make any official complaint about officer conduct.
    It was over one hundred degrees and no one wanted to do anything other then get back into an air-conditioned vehicle.
    The cops are probably aware that open carry is legal but people are not perfect and get snippy.
    Live and let live, all mr moron needed was a reminder that he can go to jail.
    The cops have discretion, I want them to use it.

    For me the important thing is Washoe county conforming to the NRS WRT firearms law.
    DMV has open carry, Washoe County needs to join the 21st Century too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    I am not going to make any official complaint about officer conduct.
    It was over one hundred degrees and no one wanted to do anything other then get back into an air-conditioned vehicle.
    The cops are probably aware that open carry is legal but people are not perfect and get snippy.
    Live and let live, all mr moron needed was a reminder that he can go to jail.
    The cops have discretion, I want them to use it.

    For me the important thing is Washoe county conforming to the NRS WRT firearms law.
    DMV has open carry, Washoe County needs to join the 21st Century too.
    Well complaining here isnt going to to get you that last paragraph done. I could give 2 hoots if it was 100 or 50. The cops were wrong and need to be called on it. Why did you take the time to complain here? Why not take the time and complain where it needs to be done?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    Up until two weeks ago I was an independent contractor for Washoe County.
    I was a driver for the Gerlach senior citizens ( bus driver )

    I had been planning on quitting, so the whole affair was more amusing then critical- but it showed how much work
    we have to do in educating our public officials.

    I had only one passenger, a total moron.
    Being that I was driving a county vehicle I decided to open carry ( what is that law again 202. 36 something? )
    The bus overheated and Mr Moron got his underwear in a twist, I parked in the shade and waited for the supervisors to come and get the bus.
    While we were waiting Mr Moron decided to get upset at me carrying, he produced a leather sap and was waving it around saying "now I have a weapon too, I'll crack your skull if you make a move"

    I told him "that's nice, please put it away" ... He kept persisting in being threatening with his stupid little sap ( really, I carry a full size .40 caliber glock - he is a big guy but I can stop him in his tracks )
    After 3 times of him acting like a Dbag I told him "one more time I call the cops".
    Naturally he had to go ahead and threaten me again, so I called the cops.

    RPD got there the same time as my supervisors so I had to explain the situation about ten times to everyone, being outside I had my vest on so my sidearm was concealed - I had notified dispatch that I was armed and RPD was really cool about it, they didn't even look at my CCW or the sidearm.

    BUT ... one of the cops told me that "you have a CCW, you can't open carry, I can take your gun you know" instead of arguing with him I simply said "OK"
    My supervisor said "no guns are allowed on County property" instead of arguing with her I simply said "OK"

    The reason is my purpose was to get out of the hundred plus heat and go home, I wasn't there to protest or educate.

    They repeated this misinformation over and over again, I guess they were expecting an argument, or could tell I didn't believe a word they were saying ...
    I needed a ride back to Gerlach and if I didn't get one I would have spent the night in Reno with no money ( I live paycheck to paycheck ).

    They got me back to Gerlach and I quit the job, like I had been planning on all along.

    So now I do want to educate Washoe County and my former supervisors, BTW they're all pretty nice folks and I harbor no ill will towards them
    ( and my ex supervisor is freaking HOT, so hot that supermarkets don't let her near eggs because they automatically hard boil in her presence, alas, I'm ugly and she is married )

    So my plan is (if you kind folks can help me plan and execute this plan ) is to educate Washoe county senior center workers and supervisors and get them to change the signs on their doors to conform with the signs at the DMV.

    ( hey Reno/Sparks folks, when did they change the signs at DMV to "no concealed" instead of "no firearms" & who made that happen? )

    So, what do we do? Do we walk into the senior center and wait to get told to leave? Anyone is allowed inside, they allow non seniors to buy lunch there ( it's cheap too )
    should we meet up for a cheap lunch and wait for them to call the cops or is there a county attorney we can contact to explain our case to and he/she can send a memo out to the staff at the senior center that open carry is perfectly legal if there are no metal detectors at the doors?

    I really want all gov't buildings to have the same signs the DMV has so they are no longer allowed to treat us like second class citizens.
    My (28) years in the NAVY taught me many things. One was you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. I have stood up to senior officers when they were wrong to protect my sailors and still managed to retire as an E9.

    In my civilian life I have had retail employees fired for poor service and attitude by documenting exactly what happened and forwarding a letter to the district manager and corporate headquarters with the caveat that they solve the problem or I invite every person I know to no longer shop there.

    I am in the process of writing a letter to Subway to correct the attitude of a Subway employee I encountered in Texas on our trip back east for the summer. I could of just "looked the other way". Fortunately, I didn't stand for incompetence in the NAVY, my civilian jobs and in the retail world since I am now retired.

    By not filing a police complaint you are allowing two things to happen/possibly happen. A lazy cop gets to keep on becoming lazy and incompetent and maybe ruining someone's life down the road. And Mr Moron know thinks he can pull an illegal sap out and threaten people. The next time he does it he may been on the receiving end of a high velocity projectile.

    I can't look the other way. Some people in the past have accused me of not being a tactful person sometimes. GUILTY as charged.

    To me, tact is telling people to go to hell and make then look forward to the trip. Sorry, I would have been firing off letters to the police chief, town manager/council and the NV state attorney's office.

    Comedian Ron White is wrong. You can fix stupid. Write the letters.

    NAVYBLUE

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    I am not going to make any official complaint about officer conduct.
    It was over one hundred degrees and no one wanted to do anything other then get back into an air-conditioned vehicle.
    The cops are probably aware that open carry is legal but people are not perfect and get snippy.
    Live and let live, all mr moron needed was a reminder that he can go to jail.
    The cops have discretion, I want them to use it...
    I can't agree with this. You have the discretion as to what you want to do. But, here are my thoughts.

    I fix air conditioners for much of my living. I am on rooftops in 120 degrees all day long. I have zero sympathy for a cop who needs to stay in the air conditioning. Drink water, dress for the occasion, and DO YOUR JOB.

    We should not tolerate those who enjoy the TITLE of "law enforcement" but refuse to treat it as an actual job description. Despite the "discretion" you give them, it sounds like they did not even give Mr Moron that "reminder," but completely ignored his threats with an illegal weapon to focus on you and your legal weapon because their "discretion" felt it more important.
    Last edited by MAC702; 07-15-2013 at 11:22 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    We should not tolerate those who enjoy the TITLE of "law enforcement" but refuse to treat it as an actual job description. Despite the "discretion" you give them, it sounds like they did not even give Mr Moron that "reminder," but completely ignored his threats with an illegal weapon to focus on you and your legal weapon because their "discretion" felt it more important.
    Concur.

    It worked out okay for the OP.

    What about for the next guy in this situation?

    We have a responsibility to the next guy, to pay back the guys who came before us.

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    Yeah there are a lot of people in Washoe County that don't care what the law is. The Washoe Sheriff and the District Attorney office basically told me that they don't care what the law says when it comes to open carry within the Sheriffs' Office.

    The DMV does seem to recognize the law. I can't take credit for that, some people sent letters and what not and I didn't. But by OCing there in the past and discussing it with them in person I may have helped reduce their confusion.

    I like to OC places but I always make sure I have some real business to accomplish where I am going. I only OC to the DMV when I have business with the DMV, for instance.

    Generally, public buildings belong to everyone so one cannot be denied access to them arbitrarily. I'm no lawyer but I would be concerned that without having business in a place it might be possible that they can argue that you came specifically to vex or annoy an occupant, which might fall under trespassing.

    NRS 207.200  Unlawful trespass upon land; warning against trespassing.
    1.  Unless a greater penalty is provided pursuant to NRS 200.603, any person who, under circumstances not amounting to a burglary:
    (a) Goes upon the land or into any building of another with intent to vex or annoy the owner or occupant thereof, or to commit any unlawful act; or
    (b) Willfully goes or remains upon any land or in any building after having been warned by the owner or occupant thereof not to trespass,
    is guilty of a misdemeanor. The meaning of this subsection is not limited by subsections 2 and 4.
    2.  A sufficient warning against trespassing, within the meaning of this section, is given by any of the following methods:
    (a) If the land is used for agricultural purposes or for herding or grazing livestock, by painting with fluorescent orange paint:
    (1) Not less than 50 square inches of the exterior portion of a structure or natural object or the top 12 inches of the exterior portion of a post, whether made of wood, metal or other material, at:
    (I) Intervals of such a distance as is necessary to ensure that at least one such structure, natural object or post would be within the direct line of sight of a person standing next to another such structure, natural object or post, but at intervals of not more than 1,000 feet; and
    (II) Each corner of the land, upon or near the boundary; and
    (2) Each side of all gates, cattle guards and openings that are designed to allow human ingress to the area;
    (b) If the land is not used in the manner specified in paragraph (a), by painting with fluorescent orange paint not less than 50 square inches of the exterior portion of a structure or natural object or the top 12 inches of the exterior portion of a post, whether made of wood, metal or other material, at:
    (1) Intervals of such a distance as is necessary to ensure that at least one such structure, natural object or post would be within the direct line of sight of a person standing next to another such structure, natural object or post, but at intervals of not more than 200 feet; and
    (2) Each corner of the land, upon or near the boundary;
    (c) Fencing the area; or
    (d) By the owner or occupant of the land or building making an oral or written demand to any guest to vacate the land or building.
    3.  It is prima facie evidence of trespass for any person to be found on private or public property which is posted or fenced as provided in subsection 2 without lawful business with the owner or occupant of the property.
    4.  An entryman on land under the laws of the United States is an owner within the meaning of this section.
    5.  As used in this section:
    (a) “Fence” means a barrier sufficient to indicate an intent to restrict the area to human ingress, including, but not limited to, a wall, hedge or chain link or wire mesh fence. The term does not include a barrier made of barbed wire.
    (b) “Guest” means any person entertained or to whom hospitality is extended, including, but not limited to, any person who stays overnight. The term does not include a tenant as defined in NRS 118A.170.
    [1911 C&P 500; RL 6765; NCL 10447]—(NRS A 1969, 96; 1975, 1169; 1987, 2086; 1989, 997; 2005, 930; 2007, 981; 2009, 141)
    According to http://www.washoecounty.us/seniorsrv/nutrition.htm, at the senior center, one should be 60+ in order to get the low priced Senior meals. I'm thinking that it would not be a good idea to try and do something like that unless you happen to be a qualifying senior, in that case by all means open carry while you try and utilize the government program.

    Participants must be at least one of the following -
    60 or older or
    if under 60, either attending with their over-60 spouse
    or living and eating lunch at one of the nutrition sites
    or disabled and living with a person 60+
    Proof of age and/or status of living arrangements may be required.

    Even if it is lawful for a non-senior to visit with no apparent purpose, I think it could be bad publicity.

    Of course I absolutely agree we ought to be able to OC all public buildings including the senior center, but I think unless we have some 60+ year old members here who can go with a real purpose I think it might be better to try other venues where there is a more legitimate purpose to be there instead of coming just to object to their unlawful behavior.

    If a senior comes to get his meal and is turned away because he wants self-protection, that will be a more positive argument to forcing them to follow the law, and it will be less likely that people will push to change the law. If a young guy shows up, unaccompanied by a senior, with the sole purpose being to protest the lack of following the law, even if succeeding in forcing them to follow the law, will they then testify to the legislature that they need to be allowed to ban guns at the senior center because young guys with guns loiter around?

    If you aren't a senior, sending them a letter could still be good but I wouldn't visit without a purpose. If you still had your job, carrying on the job could have been a great way to have official business there that would justify your presence in their facility and it would be better publicity than trying to purchase discount senior meals when you aren't a senior.

    As for metal detectors, even a metal detector does not legally entitle a government building to make a gun free zone. NRS 202.3673 bans only concealed carry by permit holders, if there is a sign or a metal detector in place.

    As for the RPD story, if I was you I would have tried to at least tell the cops they were wrong about the law. If they were truly ignorant, they now remain as ignorant as before. I have been unjustly stopped a few times in the past for open carry and I never filed a complaint. I didn't want to penalize the officers for their ignorance, at the time. However, I have come to find that many officers know the law fully yet try to intimidate people into not carrying. Those people deserve a complaint, in my opinion. A complaint might be the only thing to get them to change their way. Of course, if department policy is to harass OC'ers than it won't do much good, but might form the basis of a future lawsuit if the continue to act inappropriately despite the complaints.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 07-15-2013 at 05:13 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
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    I have written a letter to a top county official and they promptly wrote back assuring me they will investigate.

    Mr Moron has completely isolated himself from friends/family and acquaintances. Shooting him is a favor.
    I feel sorry for him, living in his own mess is more then enough punishment. The cops took his "sap" and warned him.

    WRT you folks wanting me to write a complaint about the police officers.
    I do not see any point, they didn't even look at my CCW, they didn't disarm me and they did their best to resolve the situation with minimum intrusion to all parties.
    They treated me fairly as well as mr moron, they treated the county employee's fairly .

    There are way to many laws on the books, useless laws . I do not want L.E all tied up in enforcing every tiny violation...

  23. #23
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    I have written a letter to a top county official and they promptly wrote back assuring me they will investigate.

    Mr Moron has completely isolated himself from friends/family and acquaintances. Shooting him is a favor.
    I feel sorry for him, living in his own mess is more then enough punishment. The cops took his "sap" and warned him.

    WRT you folks wanting me to write a complaint about the police officers.
    I do not see any point, they didn't even look at my CCW, they didn't disarm me and they did their best to resolve the situation with minimum intrusion to all parties.
    They treated me fairly as well as mr moron, they treated the county employee's fairly .

    There are way to many laws on the books, useless laws . I do not want L.E all tied up in enforcing every tiny violation...
    My old news nose tells me something is missing here.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    My old news nose tells me something is missing here.

    TBG
    You're right, I wrote a much longer post but edited it a whole bunch.

    WRT the "low priced senior meals" yes, you need to be 60 plus for those but under sixties are welcome and they cost less then approx 5 bucks.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    As for the RPD story, if I was you I would have tried to at least tell the cops they were wrong about the law. If they were truly ignorant, they now remain as ignorant as before. I have been unjustly stopped a few times in the past for open carry and I never filed a complaint. I didn't want to penalize the officers for their ignorance, at the time. However, I have come to find that many officers know the law fully yet try to intimidate people into not carrying. Those people deserve a complaint, in my opinion. A complaint might be the only thing to get them to change their way. Of course, if department policy is to harass OC'ers than it won't do much good, but might form the basis of a future lawsuit if the continue to act inappropriately despite the complaints.
    I agree, however I couldn't afford to spend the night in Reno and I had groceries with me too, and a cooler with ice - and it was over 100 degrees - I really didn't want to "win" an argument and spend a day ( a very hot day ) carrying that stuff around and a night in the park with three dollars to buy a cup of coffee with.

    I could have argued with the officers but by"winning" my point that would mean I get to experience the joys of homelessness for a day.
    My pay check was not going to be there for another whole business day, my car was parked in Gerlach.

    I am all for educational and protesting OC, I will make myself available for that...please lets do an OC BBQ or something ( other then picking up someone else' s trash )
    Really, I'll write a letter of complaint for that if it is needed.

    However this situation was totally different, if you do not agree then please walk a mile in my shoes. The next time its 105 degrees we can meet in downtown Reno.
    I will lend you the gear I had that day, a full messenger bag with a bunch of stuff , a cooler with a bunch of drinks and ice, a bag of groceries and a box that I use to carry my older/bigger laptop with cord to plug in, speakers, mouse - that I happened to have that day.
    I will OC with you while you carry everything, you can stay outside all day, over night, until at least noon the next day. You will only have three dollars to spend.

    OK?

    Really, I will be glad to oblige you for this little experiment - It should be warmer this week lets do it soon.

    Not really meaning Felid Maximus but any of you that think I'm worse then Hitler for just wanting to get a freaking ride and not "win" an argument and be homeless for a day and a night.
    Last edited by chrsjhnsn; 07-17-2013 at 11:32 AM.

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