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Questionable Sign at East Canton Save-a-lot

Humanshield

Regular Member
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Sep 1, 2012
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27
Location
Ohio
So can anyone tell me the legality/meaning of this sign? It is somewhat vague. It is posted on a bulletin board about 10 feet inside the store. I walked right past it and a friend whom was with me happen to noticed it. He alerted me to it and there happen to be a manager nearby that heard our conversation. So I said no problem I'll just put it in the car. The manager said I'm sorry that may not be the right sign. I did not question it any further and just put my firearm back in my vehicle. Has anyone spoke with a Save-A-Lot in the past? Should I contact corporate?


Also has something happened with the forums? My old post about my open carry encounter with Minerva Police seems to be gone?
 

eye95

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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
What did the sign say?

If it was a typical Ohio gunbuster sign, you may not carry. It is supposed to be posted conspicuously, but the lack of conspicuousness will only be a defense against a trespassing charge for someone who does not know it is there. You know it is there. Do not carry in that store.

Contact corporate. Local management may be violating corporate policy. If corporate policy does not allow carry, respect their choice. I respect that choice by my lack of patronage.
 

NEOOpenCarry

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Oct 23, 2012
Messages
132
Location
Akron, Ohio
That is not a gun buster sign. That type of sign is typically found in restaurants that serve alcohol. All it means is that you "may" be breaking the law. The only way you would be breaking the law is if you didn't have you chl in a class d liquor establishment or if you were consuming alcohol while carrying. If you have your chl and are not consuming, this sign (correct me if I am wrong) can be disregarded. It is in my opinion intentionally vague to confuse and keep people from carrying, but that is just my opinion.
 

Humanshield

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Sep 1, 2012
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Location
Ohio
That is not a gun buster sign. That type of sign is typically found in restaurants that serve alcohol. All it means is that you "may" be breaking the law. The only way you would be breaking the law is if you didn't have you chl in a class d liquor establishment or if you were consuming alcohol while carrying. If you have your chl and are not consuming, this sign (correct me if I am wrong) can be disregarded. It is in my opinion intentionally vague to confuse and keep people from carrying, but that is just my opinion.

That is what I took it to be. And to clarify, I was open carrying as usual. Though I do have my chl.
 

eye95

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Yep, have a CHL and don't consume and you are not committing the felony of which the sign speaks. Carry openly or conceal. Just have the license and don't imbibe.


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Makarov

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Jul 19, 2008
Messages
227
Location
Dayton, Ohio, USA
The signs are meaningless with or without a CCW. Save A Lot stores only sells liquor. No one consumes it in the store. The department of Alcohol enforcement in the state of Ohio gives all their class D liquor permit these signs. They are optional to post if you are selling, but if you are consuming on the premises, then they are mandatory to post. Save a Lot corporate policy is to follow state law. That manager is blowing smoke. Call the Corporation and have them send an email validating their position on the subject of gun carry within the store. The manager may be mistaken for NO GUNS ALLOWED policy for employees, applies to patrons as well.
 

eye95

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As has been pointed out elsewhere: If you are carrying in a store that sells alcohol for consumption off-premises and you don't have a CHL, if someone walks in drinking (illegally) a beer, you are now committing a felony.

It is stupid, but that is the way the law is worded. The alcohol being consumed does not have to have been served by the licensed establishment.


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Makarov

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I have never heard of anyone in a grocery store drinking alcohol unless there is a wine tasting contest but if a contest exists, they have a class D permit to sell and consume on premises. That's rare!
 

eye95

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I have never heard of anyone in a grocery store drinking alcohol unless there is a wine tasting contest but if a contest exists, they have a class D permit to sell and consume on premises. That's rare!

Just pointing out that if someone thinks that they are legally safe in a grocery store that sells alcohol, but does not allow consumption on premises, they aren't. They aren't even in control of when their behavior suddenly becomes a felony.

Unlicensed carry in an establishment selling liquor + anyone consuming any alcohol anywhere in that establishment, regardless of source = felony.

Manager keeps a bottle in his bottom desk drawer. Takes a snort. Felony.

Drunk with a bottle of Annie Green Springs in a paper bag staggers in. Takes a hit. Felony.

Hell, a shopper takes a belt of the "cough syrup" she keeps in her purse. Felony.

Not saying any of these will ever happen. Just that they could, and you are subject to arrest.

Folks, carry under those conditions at your own peril.
 
Last edited:

Humanshield

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Location
Ohio
So, I did contact corporate requesting on there clarification of there firearm policy for customers. I received a case # and was told I would hear from someone within 2 business days. I will update when I get a response.
 

Makarov

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Dayton, Ohio, USA
Eye95. I have never heard of anyone getting arrested under that scenario. Please share the story if you have?
 
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eye95

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I have no stories. I just know that that is the way the law is written. Moronic. But reality.

I also know of no one arrested under the federal GFSZ law. I still ain't gonna be the one to test it.


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davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
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earth's crust
Just pointing out that if someone thinks that they are legally safe in a grocery store that sells alcohol, but does not allow consumption on premises, they aren't. They aren't even in control of when their behavior suddenly becomes a felony.

Unlicensed carry in an establishment selling liquor + anyone consuming any alcohol anywhere in that establishment, regardless of source = felony.

Manager keeps a bottle in his bottom desk drawer. Takes a snort. Felony.

Drunk with a bottle of Annie Green Springs in a paper bag staggers in. Takes a hit. Felony.

Hell, a shopper takes a belt of the "cough syrup" she keeps in her purse. Felony.

Not saying any of these will ever happen. Just that they could, and you are subject to arrest.

Folks, carry under those conditions at your own peril.


What a fascinating scenario(s) .. please, tell me less
 

eye95

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Troll aside, back to the topic.

I really don't think corporate should be involved since this was not a gunbuster sign, just a warning (that I saw in a pub last night) warning of the real possibility that a carrier could run afoul of the laws regarding carry in a licensed establishment--and they well could, so the warning is quite apt.

By going to corporate when there is no gunbuster sign, we could prompt them to put one up. If they do, all I have to say is, "Thanks a lot, Bub."


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MKEgal

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in front of my computer, WI
Well, I looked up the statute referenced on the sign: 4301.637(A)
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4301.637
It has nothing to do with firearms. It's about underage consumption.

Section B deals with firearms where alcohol is being "dispensed for consumption".
(B) Every place in this state for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303 of the Revised Code shall be issued a printed card by the division that shall read substantially as follows: "WARNING
If you are carrying a firearm
Under the statutes of Ohio, if you possess a firearm in any room in which liquor is being dispensed in premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code, you may be guilty of a felony and are subject to a term of actual incarceration of one or two years."
So the alcohol has to be "dispensed", as in poured, provided for consumption.
Not just a grocery or state store where people buy alcohol, or a grocery where someone is drinking cough syrup or a drunk stumbles in. :rolleyes:


4303.13 - 4303.184 describes / defines "D permit" (links along the right side of the page)
D-1 may be issued to the owner or operator of a hotel, of a retail food establishment or a food service operation... sell beer for on-premises consumption, kegs for off-premises.

D2... sell wine and prepared and bottled cocktails, cordials, and other mixed beverages ... either in glass or container, for consumption on the premises where sold. The holder of this permit may also sell wine and prepared and bottled cocktails, cordials, and other mixed beverages in original packages and not for consumption on the premises where sold or for resale

D2x ... sell beer at retail to drink on premises, and in kegs for off-premises
D3 ... sell spirituous liquor at retail, only by the individual drink in glass or from the container, for consumption on the premises

D3a after hours permit
D3x... sell wine by the individual drink in glass or from the container, for consumption on the premises
D4 members only club

D4a "guests of a private club sponsored by the airline company, at a publicly owned airport... at which commercial airline companies operate regularly scheduled flights on which space is available to the public"

D5 "sell beer and any intoxicating liquor at retail, only by the individual drink in glass and from the container, for consumption on the premises where sold, and to sell the same products in the same manner and amounts not for consumption on the premises as may be sold by holders of D-1 and D-2 permits"

D5a - o (big mess)
D6 - allows altered hours for other permits
D7 - restaurant
D8 - state store or large grocery store
 

eye95

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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
2923.121 Possession of firearm in beer liquor permit premises - prohibition, exceptions.

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued...

To break this law, the following must happen:

1. You possess a firearm.
2. You are merely in a premises that has a class D permit.
3. Someone is consuming.

There is no mention of the drink having been dispensed in the premises.

There is an exception for CHL holders who are not consuming and not under the influence.

So, if you carry without a CHL into a store that sells alcohol and someone takes a belt, from whatever source, you are committing a crime. Not saying that the law will be enforced, just that it is decidedly there in the ORC.

Like I said earlier. The same sign was in a pub I visited last night. It is not alerting you that carry is prohibited, so I don't recommend contacting corporate as you could prompt them to put up a gunbuster. If you have your CHL, just carry. If you don't have your CHL, carry or don't. Just be aware of the letter of the law.
 

Suckerspawn

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
41
Location
Dayton, Piqua, Ohio
To break this law, the following must happen:

1. You possess a firearm.
2. You are merely in a premises that has a class D permit.
3. Someone is consuming.

There is no mention of the drink having been dispensed in the premises.

There is an exception for CHL holders who are not consuming and not under the influence.

So, if you carry without a CHL into a store that sells alcohol and someone takes a belt, from whatever source, you are committing a crime. Not saying that the law will be enforced, just that it is decidedly there in the ORC.

Like I said earlier. The same sign was in a pub I visited last night. It is not alerting you that carry is prohibited, so I don't recommend contacting corporate as you could prompt them to put up a gunbuster. If you have your CHL, just carry. If you don't have your CHL, carry or don't. Just be aware of the letter of the law.

Having a CHL sure simplifies some things in my life.
 
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