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Thread: No straight answers from police

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    No straight answers from police

    New to this forum and new to open carry. I live in NJ ( nobody gets to carry except cops and those with connections) so the thought of be able to exercise my rights lead me here. I visit Richmond on a consistent basis and this time I packed my gun. I open carried everywhere around town with no issues, until a cop ended up behind me in traffic. I am doing nothing wrong but NJ mentality kicks in and I start to get anxiety that I am doing something illegal by technicalities.
    Today I stopped in at the State Police barracks on 60 and talked to Duty Sargent. .. or at least try to. He is arrogant and clearly anti. He will not give a straight answer to my questions and seems annoyed with me for asking. What came from the conversation: on hip in car is concealed, in glove box concealed, driving past a school within 1000 ft big trouble.

    I have been reading as much info as I could find make sure what I am doing is legal but its frustrating how much opinion gets tossed in with facts. Is he correct? Am interpreting the code right? Is evryone here right? I do not want an opinion battle at a traffic stop.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    North Chesterfield VA
    Welome to OCDOP and welcome to Virginia. Your NJ dollars are welcome here also.

    I do not know how the state police handle things in NJ, but the VSP do not answer legal questions (except that you are or are not free to go). It's pretty much a self-protection thing, as well as professionalism to only deal with what is clearly their area of responsibility.

    It is a long-standing truth that one should not ask cops anything about the law, and certainly not about firearm laws. I am a lawyer (one educated in the law) but am not an attorney (a member of the guild allowed to argue with a judge without immediately getting jailed for contempt), so I can offer you a few legal opinions:

    on hip in car is concealed - Nope! Not even close.

    in glove box is concealed - Yup! The nice thing is that in Virginia you do not need a state permissio slip to carry concealed in the glove box (so long as it is closed) or any other secured (does not need to be locked) container in the vehicle.

    driving past a school within 1000 ft big trouble - federal law says you must have a state permission slip to do so without violating the prohibition. Generally speaking VSP does not enforce federal law. What they might do is, if arresting you on a state charge, refer you to the US Attorney for prosecution in federal court on federal charges that the USA brings against you. Many years ago there was "Operation Exile" in which the local cops referred as many firearms cases as possible to the USA to get the harsher federal sentence imposed. It's not nice, but it did keep some BGs off Virginia's streets a bit longer than they might have been if convicted in state court.

    The next time you are going to be in town post it and suggst a time & place for a meet&greet. Some of us will be sure to bring the VCDL carry info cards so you can get a copy.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Oct 2007
    , ,

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Sorry that you had the negative contact with VSP officer. He was totally wrong on everything. Actually his attitude and responses bear reporting.

    In Virginia you may OC w/o a permit almost everywhere including in a vehicle and restaurants selling alcohol.

    Here are a list of exceptions - places one cannot carry.

    Private property may restrict/not allow OC/CC but generally "no guns" signs are not considered adequate to lead to a trespassing charge. One would need to be told to leave and refuse before that would be a problem - most here do not go that route though - preferring to spend our money where the right to defend ourselves is respected.

    By all means, give us a heads up next time you are in Virginia. We can meet, talk and walk.....OCing
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Welcome to VA, Rollin, and OCDO!!

    The others have already addressed your questions, so I'll go in another direction.

    Looks like you got a free lesson about asking cops about the law: never ask a cop about the law.

    Far too often, we have to educate them on the gun laws.

    Cops have an extensive history of giving wrong or distorted answers to gun law questions. Some were ignorant; others seemed clearly trying to discourage carry.

    And, perhaps the most important point, cops are not lawyers, meaning legal advisors. And, they're especially not your lawyer (or mine). If a cop gives you the law wrong, and you later get cited or arrested for it, no court is gonna let you off because Officer Shiny Badge told you it was OK.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-13-2013 at 09:23 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location, Richmond, Va., , USA

    Wink just an idea....

    If you have questions, you could always take a class!

    (And from someone who speaks Jersey too)
    Last edited by ProShooter; 07-14-2013 at 07:16 PM.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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