Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44

Thread: Obama Responds to Zimmerman Verdict: 'Stem the Tide of Gun Violence'--For Trayvon

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,161

    Obama Responds to Zimmerman Verdict: 'Stem the Tide of Gun Violence'--For Trayvon

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...ment-president

    The death of Trayvon Martin was a tragedy. Not just for his family, or for any one community, but for America. I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher. But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken.

    I now ask every American to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son. And as we do, we should ask ourselves if we’re doing all we can to widen the circle of compassion and understanding in our own communities. We should ask ourselves if we’re doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis. We should ask ourselves, as individuals and as a society, how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that’s a job for all of us. That’s the way to honor Trayvon Martin.
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...f-Gun-Violence

    Obama reduces danse macabre to a soft-shoe.


    Wer war der Thor, wer der Weise,

    "Who was the fool, who the wise,

    Wer der Bettler oder Kaiser?

    who the beggar or the Emperor?

    Ob arm, ob reich, im Tode gleich.

    Whether rich or poor equal in death."

    MOLON LABE Lord of Flies, ya putz.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-14-2013 at 04:25 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,558
    Obama needs to shut the hell up, and he needs sit there and do nothing the rest of his term.
    Last edited by zack991; 07-14-2013 at 05:19 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    The death of M is not a tragedy. It was necessary. He was a thug, and a law-abiding citizen would surely have been killed had that citizen not defended himself from M in a way that resulted in M's death.

    Likely other lives were saved by the death of M. Had he succeeded in killing Z, he likely would have gone on to kill others.

    His family built the thug. Apart from the thug himself, the only people to blame for M's death are those who raised him with thuggish values.

    Oh, and those who build a system that promotes families raising thugs, such as Obama.
    Last edited by eye95; 07-14-2013 at 07:08 PM.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    SNIP The death of M is not a tragedy. It was necessary.
    This is a sign of the dangerousness of Obama and the decline of government.

    Obama talks out both sides of his mouth. In one sentence, he pretends to support the jury verdict, but then with the other fork of his tongue calls Martin's death a tragedy. Do you see the contradiction? He is essentially minimizing the system for political gain. This is really bad.

    Interested members should read up on the decline of the Roman Republic--not the empire--the republic that preceded the emporers. In the last forty or fifty years, politicians more and more disregarded and subverted the Roman constitution. Sometimes just for political gain, and other times to attack one another as they jockeyed for power. There are clear parallels to what we're experiencing from government in this day and age.

    We--America--may be the planet's last chance to finish the American Revolution and bring about genuine government by consent of the governed.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,161
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    This is a sign of the dangerousness of Obama and the decline of government.
    [ ... ]
    We--America--may be the planet's last chance to finish the American Revolution and bring about genuine government by consent of the governed.
    We, America, will fall, will fall, for precisely the same reasons as the Roman Republic - too fat, too comfortable, debauched, decadent, besotted, ad nauseam.

    Too progressive.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    We, America, will fall, will fall, for precisely the same reasons as the Roman Republic - too fat, too comfortable, debauched, decadent, besotted, ad nauseam.

    Too progressive.
    By using the word we, you inadvertently penetrated to a core problem: thinking in terms of we.

    We are not the government, the government is not us.

    Stop thinking in terms of "we" and start thinking in terms of individuals.

    I will not fall; I will be dragged down by "we"-ers who insist on ruling me against my refused consent.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-14-2013 at 09:20 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,161
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    By using the word we, you inadvertently penetrated to a core problem: thinking in terms of we.

    We are not the government, the government is not us.

    Stop thinking in terms of "we" and start thinking in terms of individuals.

    I will not fall; I will be dragged down by "we"-ers who insist on ruling me against my refused consent.
    Culture, not government. Culture is not government.

    Fall or dragged down is still defunct. I plan on dying old, glad to leave the mess to kidz.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Culture, not government. Culture is not government.

    Fall or dragged down is still defunct. I plan on dying old, glad to leave the mess to kidz.
    Don't try to make causes into effects, and then pretend there is no distinction.

    I chalked up your earlier comment to misanthropy. Keep it up and I'm going to take your comments about decadent, debauched, and besotted exactly as you intended--a personal insult.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-14-2013 at 11:38 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  9. #9
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Save the thugs, ban sidewalks!
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  10. #10
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448
    It's official, the President of the United States, who swore to uphold and defend the Constitution, three times, has officially equated lawful armed self defense AKA Constitutionally protected activity, with "gun violence" AKA gun crime AKA murder AKA socially unacceptable behavior.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    We, America, will fall, will fall, for precisely the same reasons as the Roman Republic - too fat, too comfortable, debauched, decadent, besotted, ad nauseam.

    Too progressive.
    Not where I live, maybe where you live.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Don't try to make causes into effects, and then pretend there is no distinction.

    I chalked up your earlier comment to misanthropy. Keep it up and I'm going to take your comments about decadent, debauched, and besotted exactly as you intended--a personal insult.
    It was a personal-ish insult. What Mr. Nightmare will/may not address is the options available to him to remedy his misanthropyness.

    The following is addressed to any reader.

    Obama is in the race business and business is good. You don't get rich in the race business by being reasonable.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    391
    I like how Obama says "a jury" and not "the jury". He obviously thinks this jury to be illegitimate.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    I hate to be the guy to defend Obama, but...

    Y'all are clearly projecting your own preconceptions on Obama's remark.

    For instance, I've been saying that the thing to take away from all this is do not start fights (even when you might have a good reason to "stand up for yourself"). And if you find yourself winning a fight you didn't start, end it. Teach this to your kids!

    Now, if we as a culture agreed that was the lesson to take away from this, we would be very much in accordance with what Obama actually said (go back and read it again).

    Sure, maybe he intended it to be loaded doublespeak. But I'd say you can "disarm" that by taking it at face value:

    "OK, Obama. Let's stem the tide of gun violence. Let's teach our kids that fisticuffs are never OK, and they will lead to 'gun violence' when victims of assault are forced to defend themselves."
    Last edited by marshaul; 07-15-2013 at 05:19 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Posts
    495
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The death of M is not a tragedy. It was necessary. He was a thug, and a law-abiding citizen would surely have been killed had that citizen not defended himself from M in a way that resulted in M's death.

    Likely other lives were saved by the death of M. Had he succeeded in killing Z, he likely would have gone on to kill others.

    His family built the thug. Apart from the thug himself, the only people to blame for M's death are those who raised him with thuggish values.

    Oh, and those who build a system that promotes families raising thugs, such as Obama.
    Indeed. I am extremely sick of hearing even the people on our side of the fence on this issue (e.g., people who know that this was indisputable self-defense), such as Zimmerman's own family members, FOX talking heads, etc., qualify ("soil" is actually a better verb) their positions by stating that this is a tragedy. While it is clear in most cases that this is being done merely for public relations reasons, it is still highly illogical B.S.

    How can this be a case of clear self-defense and a tragedy?

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Just so. The event can't be both.

    The tragedy occurred years earlier when M's family raised him in a way that ensured that he'd turn out to be a thug. They killed him when they failed to teach him right from wrong.

    Their blaming of Z is a way to deflect their own guilt in the matter.

    Oh, and on Obama's desire to "stem the tide of gun violence": Ain't nothing wrong with "gun violence," just like there is nothing wrong with guns. It is only the application of either of these by a person that can be wrong, and it is the specific action of the individual that would be evil, not generic guns or generic "gun violence."

    In this case, the "gun violence" was good. A law abiding citizen saved his life by shooting (and killing) a thug. Good. M's death probably saved more lives than just Z's
    Last edited by eye95; 07-16-2013 at 12:07 AM.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I hate to be the guy to defend Obama, but...

    Y'all are clearly projecting your own preconceptions on Obama's remark.

    For instance, I've been saying that the thing to take away from all this is do not start fights (even when you might have a good reason to "stand up for yourself"). And if you find yourself winning a fight you didn't start, end it. Teach this to your kids!

    Now, if we as a culture agreed that was the lesson to take away from this, we would be very much in accordance with what Obama actually said (go back and read it again).

    Sure, maybe he intended it to be loaded doublespeak. But I'd say you can "disarm" that by taking it at face value:

    "OK, Obama. Let's stem the tide of gun violence. Let's teach our kids that fisticuffs are never OK, and they will lead to 'gun violence' when victims of assault are forced to defend themselves."
    so if someone enters my house, I send him a telegram and tell him to leave? well, I can't anymore - no more telegrams ...

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The tragedy occurred years earlier when M's family raised him in a way that ensured that he'd turn out to be a thug. They killed him when they failed to teach him right from wrong.
    Still a tragedy, one ultimately realized in... his death.

  18. #18
    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Posts
    495
    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Still a tragedy, one ultimately realized in... his death.
    The world losing a thug is a good thing.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    The world losing a thug is a good thing.
    In one sense.

    I would advise against committing the same blunder as those you rail against – namely viewing the world in black and white. (Har har.)
    Last edited by marshaul; 07-16-2013 at 07:11 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    30
    It's a tragedy in the fact that it was a completely unnecessary killing.
    After George had made his report to the police and they told him not to pursue he shouldn't have.

    It's a tragedy in the fact that George even being brought up on charges in the first place was politically motivated. When politics enters the criminal justice system the entire institution becomes suspect and tainted.

    It's a tragedy that we have an AG who already has a report from the DOJ (FBI) saying that this was not race motivated but he still makes speeches and fires people up about the investigation.

    This whole damn thing is a Greek tragedy. We don't know what Trayvon might have accomplished in his life, if an encounter with the police might have been a wake up call for him. Or maybe it would have incited him to go further down the delinquent path he was already on. The entire situation was avoidable and should have been avoidable and at least two families are broken because of it and our political system is being more and more corrupt as it strives to use other people's lose for it's own disgusting political gain.

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by AZRobert View Post
    It's a tragedy in the fact that it was a completely unnecessary killing.
    After George had made his report to the police and they told him not to pursue he shouldn't have.

    It's a tragedy in the fact that George even being brought up on charges in the first place was politically motivated. When politics enters the criminal justice system the entire institution becomes suspect and tainted.

    It's a tragedy that we have an AG who already has a report from the DOJ (FBI) saying that this was not race motivated but he still makes speeches and fires people up about the investigation.

    This whole damn thing is a Greek tragedy. We don't know what Trayvon might have accomplished in his life, if an encounter with the police might have been a wake up call for him. Or maybe it would have incited him to go further down the delinquent path he was already on. The entire situation was avoidable and should have been avoidable and at least two families are broken because of it and our political system is being more and more corrupt as it strives to use other people's lose for it's own disgusting political gain.
    Martin's family was broken long before February 26, 2012.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    391
    Quote Originally Posted by AZRobert View Post
    After George had made his report to the police and they told him not to pursue he shouldn't have.
    They didn't tell him not to pursue. That's a lie created by Crump and his allies in the media. As the trial revealed, the 911 dispatcher twice asked Zimmerman for Martin's location.

    Moreover, Martin had escaped and was at his house according to Rachel Jeantel. He could have just walked inside, but instead he circled back to teach Zimmerman a lesson. This is corroborated by Jeantel's interview with Piers Morgan, in which she castigates Zimmerman for not understanding that Martin wasn't trying to kill him, just give him a "whuppin". In my world, "whuppins" only ever are offensive actions, never defensive.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Quote Originally Posted by randian View Post
    He could have just walked inside, but instead he circled back to teach Zimmerman a lesson. This is corroborated by Jeantel's interview with Piers Morgan, in which she castigates Zimmerman for not understanding that Martin wasn't trying to kill him, just give him a "whuppin". In my world, "whuppins" only ever are offensive actions, never defensive.
    This is why Zimmerman was acquitted.

    The MSM loves to act like this is a failure of "social justice". What they fail to acknowledge is that the alternative they seek can only be a "right" for every person to beat the snot out of anyone who they decide needs a "lesson", and the victim just has to sit back and take it.

    I won't follow their lead and make it racial. Had Zimmerman no right to defend himself, it would be exactly as I describe: it would be the de facto normalization of assault, a default rectitude on the park of every aggressor (of any race) who uses only fists. "It's cool, I only want to 'whup' you real quick."

    **** that.
    Last edited by marshaul; 07-17-2013 at 05:40 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    The High Plains of Wyoming
    Posts
    1,030
    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    Obama needs to shut the hell up, and he needs sit there and do nothing the rest of his term.
    He needs to go to Chitcago and say it!!!!!

  25. #25
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Warrenton, Oregon
    Posts
    317
    Obama said “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon,”

    Ok, I'll give you that... "look like".
    Knowing the path Trayvon was heading down, based on his cell phone texts, tweets, Facebook posts, school history w/ suspensions, pot smoking, and (alleged) jewelry theft...
    I would hope that Obama would not see his son acting like Trayvon.

    But my real question is: "Mr. President, ignoring the Zimmerman incident, if Trayvon was here & alive now, knowing his history, would you allow your daughter to date him?
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •