How not to become the next George Zimmerman

I think from TM's background that GZ had him spot on as a potential burglar. And I think if GZ had not followed him there would have been a break in. From the recordings I believe TM changed his plan to play "knockout". GZ made a tactical or logistical error to blindly follow TM into a secluded area. But that was not illegal and in no way justified the attack. If TM had actually been in fear he would have gone home, or called 911, instead he laid in wait.

Yes they both made errors, it was fatal for one of them, it could have been fatal for GZ.

Citizen said:

Hmm. I wonder. I think you might be onto something there.

It seems pretty plausible to me that a young black man, having experienced both institutional and private racism, and having its existence pounded into him from birth, might just finally say, "I've had it! I'm not doing anything wrong and here is another MFer profiling me just for walking home with a snack! That's it! I'm not going to take it anymore!"

Moreover, I wonder if that is the real reason TM got so much support from the black community? I wonder if there is an undercurrent of, "That could be me or my son who finally had enough." I also wonder if there is an element there of not wanting to hold TM responsible for his actions because they can see themselves reacting the same way? They can appreciate why he acted the way he did?

It seems to me that maybe racism did get TM killed, just not in the obvious way.

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In this scenario (which I don't find at all far-fetched), I have sympathy for the motivations of TM.

But that doesn't change the final analysis.

In fact, one of the great ironies of the meta-issue is the "macho BS subculture" (my words) which believes that physical assault ("beating up" someone) is a valid/efficacious way of "standing up for yourself"; this subculture is one of the very things reinforcing racial-cultural divides, and "keeping the black man down" by ensuring he constantly winds himself up in jail.

I will be the first to admit there are circumstantial disadvantages out of their control, but a very good first step would be, for example, TM's mother to acknowledge her role in the death of her son, by failing to instill in him one of the most important pieces of advice: do not start fights. If she really wanted to honor her son and his death, she would ensure that this lesson be spread as far and wide within her community as possible. It would save many, many lives. And it would be a step down the road towards racial-cultural equality.

marshaul said:

SNIP But that doesn't change the final analysis.

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Agreed. I'm more thinking out loud about the ramifications of racism and suppression. I suspect the same ideas cover both. Whether a group is suppressed because of their race, economic status, religious minority status, or whatever, it probably matters little in the end because, after all, equality is equality, and freedom is freedom.

Evidence relating to Martin's default physical violence propensity was withheld from the jurors.

Had the text messaging extracted from Martin's phone been introduced in the presence of the jury they would have rendered a verdict acquitting Zimmerman in less than an hour Friday night.

I was an armed neighborhood watch block captain in Colorado Springs a few years ago. I began to realize that the other residents of the community were increasingly calling ME instead of the PD upon observing " suspicious young black males" in the vicinity of their units. That's when I withdrew from my "official" neighborhood watch position.

Lesson to the "neighborhood watchers" = call the PD and report " suspicions persons".

Lesson to those who feel compelled to administer beat-downs to people who annoy them - DON'T.

Lesson to mothers home alone with their young children when home invaders break into their houses - you should own, and carry a gun 24/7 to protect your family and yourself from such threats. It is not somebody else's responsibility to protect you.

In theory, I've decided to avoid or retreat in any confrontation where the other party (ies) dont have a weapon in hand. I believe and the jury believed Zimmerman did that until M used the pavement as a deadly weapon.

rushcreek2 said:

Had the text messaging extracted from Martin's phone been introduced in the presence of the jury they would have rendered a verdict acquitting Zimmerman in less than an hour Friday night.

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Can you quote?

There must be some discrepancy between the actual texts, and how they are described, for what you say to be true.

marshaul said:

It's pretty clear Martin thought he would "stand up for himself" (AKA act like a thug) by beating up Z. Unfortunately, there is never a valid reason to physically assault someone.

Don't do this, and you won't become the next M. Simple.

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Do you have valid proof of that?, that M was the one who attacked, and that Z didn't provoke it in the least? Easy to put a dead person on trial, they can't really defend themself. I still think it was a fight between the two and Z wasn't likeing the outcome, so he cheated. Far as M goes, he probibly made some poor choices. It's not always easy to think clearly when your put on the spot.

So we have two guys, probibly both looking for trouble, even if they had to make it themselves. Just alot more trouble than one of the guys bargined for. But I'm only guessing as I wasn't there.

backupid said:

Do you have valid proof of that?, that M was the one who attacked, and that Z didn't provoke it in the least? Easy to put a dead person on trial, they can't really defend themself. I still think it was a fight between the two and Z wasn't likeing the outcome, so he cheated. Far as M goes, he probibly made some poor choices. It's not always easy to think clearly when your put on the spot.

So we have two guys, probibly both looking for trouble, even if they had to make it themselves. Just alot more trouble than one of the guys bargined for. But I'm only guessing as I wasn't there.

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No proof, just a good sense for these things (I'm usually right, you know).

Don't look for trouble. Don't give it a chance to come to you.

I'd have much more sympathy for M if he had done any of the things a victim usually does, such as immediately go home when he first noticed the "crazy cracker" "stalking" him. That's what I'd do, and it's not because I'm a repressed minority. It's because there's a time and place and a way to "stand up for yourself", and this was none of those.

In short, M put himself on the spot by letting his ego and testosterone dictate his actions. 17 is plenty old enough to have learned better, by the way, unless you come from a culture which halts development during adolescence ("Derp! Let's go beat that guy's ass! That'll show him!").

davidmcbeth said:

Forgot this advice: Don't make videos when driving

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I must apologize for setting a bad example, but I felt as though I must express those things before they were forgotten. Thank you for your concern for my safety.


Also, eye, I thank you for that information.

marshaul said:

Can you quote?

There must be some discrepancy between the actual texts, and how they are described, for what you say to be true.

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The transcript of the texts on Martin's phone were brought out through expert witness testimony during the trial with the jury not present. Here's a good link - if you want to sit through the trial again.

www.legalinsurrection.com

Martin referred to " That N----- snitched on me............." (after narrating his recent beat down of that N-----) I'm not through with him........tomorrow gonna make his nose bleed..........."

That's pretty much word for word.