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Thread: Kicked out of Kroger

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    Regular Member WhistlingJack's Avatar
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    Kicked out of Kroger

    Earlier today 7/15/13, I patronized the Kroger located at 4,009 Poplar Level Road. Was present for about 15 minutes, trying to find what I was looking for after one of the typical resorting these stores like to do. A Manager came up to me (African-American woman, no name tag, but professional dress) and told me that Firearms were not allowed on the premises and I would have to put it in my car or leave.

    I told her no problem, I would be happy to take my business elsewhere, and pointed out that there was no sign posted on the doors. She rudely returned that it was policy in all Kroger stores, and that she would put a sign up post-haste because customers had complained. I inquired further if someone had just complained and she said no, and alluded to complaints having been levied in the past. I pointed out that it seemed more likely to me that she simply had an issue with it, and that I would remove myself from the store. She then inquired if I were law enforcement of some sort while on my way out, and I politely told her that whatever my profession, it is frankly none of her business.

    I find it strange because I shop at this Kroger frequently, no employee (many of whom I have conversed with several times about legal carry etc.) ever voiced any problem or concern. I would be contacting Kroger corporate about the issue to establish what their policy actually is, but figured I would inform the members of this board that for the time being it seems that location is not OC friendly.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good"
    -George Washington

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Did you ask the woman her name? Have a recorder running?

    In any event Kroger is not anti-gun. Suspect that the woman was a lower level manager (still should have had a name tag) and was confusing employee rules with those applying to the general public/customers. Kroger has a policy of honoring the state laws in which each store is located.

    Strongly suggest you carry this up the corporate ladder and nip this BS in the bud.
    http://www.thekrogerco.com/contact-us
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    my son works for Kroger and this is not their policy. contact up the line till you get to someone who knows what they are talking about.

    one thing i would say to though is make the other person identify themselves. do not just follow someones instruction with out proof that they have the authority
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    Regular Member WhistlingJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Did you ask the woman her name? Have a recorder running?

    In any event Kroger is not anti-gun. Suspect that the woman was a lower level manager (still should have had a name tag) and was confusing employee rules with those applying to the general public/customers. Kroger has a policy of honoring the state laws in which each store is located.

    Strongly suggest you carry this up the corporate ladder and nip this BS in the bud.
    http://www.thekrogerco.com/contact-us

    I have already contacted Kroger corporate on the matter, I will make their reply known here once I receive one.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good"
    -George Washington

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    Regular Member WhistlingJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    my son works for Kroger and this is not their policy. contact up the line till you get to someone who knows what they are talking about.

    one thing i would say to though is make the other person identify themselves. do not just follow someones instruction with out proof that they have the authority
    Wearing the company uniform (including company shirt), common to managers it is a safe assumption they have the authority. In so far as name, it is my intention to go back at a later date and question another employee who has inquired about OC from me, to determine the identity of the specific individual.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good"
    -George Washington

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    Yesterday the manager of my Kroger asked me what I was "packing" and we chatted for about 5 minutes. I asked him about policy and he said they did not have a policy against firearms.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    I shop solely at Kroger, in Mt. Sterling, and always OC, even if its 3am [24hr store], have never had a problem, ever. I've carried [unloaded] in the wine & spirits portion of the store, and again, no problems ever.

    I think it's specific to the city or region you're in, Louisville obviously gonna have some anti-gun stores.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    I've carried [unloaded] in the wine & spirits portion of the store.
    Why?
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    It was her "payback" for the Zimmerman ruling. "I'll show him!" This is complete gibberish (kroger's does not allow carry). I have carried in kroger's & their offspring west of the missippi fry's with no issue. Their policy has always been they follow state law.
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    Ashland Kroger's is very of friendly. I oc there pretty much 5-6 times a week. Spoke with numerous store employees as well as managers. Never so much as a second glance at my firearm. Seems to me like she has some personal issues.

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    here is how I handle workers for a publicly traded company:

    I tell them I own 20,000 shares of stock and he/she better change his attitude in 2 seconds. Oddly enough, they always change their attitude.

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    Regular Member WhistlingJack's Avatar
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    Minor Update

    Kroger got back to me surprisingly quick on the issue, I went in this morning and spoke with a store manager, who arranged for me to speak to a Loss Prevention Agent about the incident. (I learned from the store-manager that from the employee's dress they were a Dept. Manager, but being on different shifts she would have to inquire to know exactly who it was based upon the detailed description I gave.) With the LP Agent I explained what happened, the rather rude treatment by the employee and the fact she approached me with no nametag (and that I suspect she removed it before speaking with me so that I would not know her name).

    The LP agent did not dispute the employee was one of theirs. She affirmed the company's right to ask me to leave or put the firearm in my car. I told her I have the utmost respect for the company's right to do so even if I don't like it, (private property rights are just as sacred as any other right) but that does not address the issue of the treatment I received by the employee. Specifically lying to me that someone had complained, then backtracking on the statement when I questioned her if someone had in fact complained. Then telling me that it was the corporate policy before rudely telling me to leave. The LP agent then stated that she would contact the store about the incident. She carefully avoided giving an affirmative yes or no as to whether or not OCing will be acceptable at that location in the future, and stated she would contact me later after having dealt with the store.

    If there are any noteworthy updates in the future I will post them, but for the time being it seems OCing in that location is unwise.
    Last edited by WhistlingJack; 07-16-2013 at 09:58 AM.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good"
    -George Washington

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhistlingJack View Post
    --snip--
    but for the time being it seems OCing in that location is unwise.
    How so?

    Most all of us here understand the corporate policy of honoring each state's laws and have had no negative incident, nor for that matter have even heard of another one.

    It's too far for me to drive or else I would be there this afternoon - OCing while shopping, expecting to be treated like the legal, responsible person I am.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhistlingJack View Post
    Minor Update

    Kroger got back to me surprisingly quick on the issue, I went in this morning and spoke with a store manager, who arranged for me to speak to a Loss Prevention Agent about the incident. (I learned from the store-manager that from the employee's dress they were a Dept. Manager, but being on different shifts she would have to inquire to know exactly who it was based upon the detailed description I gave.) With the LP Agent I explained what happened, the rather rude treatment by the employee and the fact she approached me with no nametag (and that I suspect she removed it before speaking with me so that I would not know her name).

    The LP agent did not dispute the employee was one of theirs. She affirmed the company's right to ask me to leave or put the firearm in my car. I told her I have the utmost respect for the company's right to do so even if I don't like it, (private property rights are just as sacred as any other right) but that does not address the issue of the treatment I received by the employee. Specifically lying to me that someone had complained, then backtracking on the statement when I questioned her if someone had in fact complained. Then telling me that it was the corporate policy before rudely telling me to leave. The LP agent then stated that she would contact the store about the incident. She carefully avoided giving an affirmative yes or no as to whether or not OCing will be acceptable at that location in the future, and stated she would contact me later after having dealt with the store.

    If there are any noteworthy updates in the future I will post them, but for the time being it seems OCing in that location is unwise.
    What does a loss prevention officer have to do with company policy on firearms? You were ocing not stealing. Sounds like they put you in contact with someone who can't help you.

    Did you tell the loss prevention agent while they have every right to ask you to leave that no employee has the right to ask you to leave because of their personal feelings when they are going against company policy?

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    Regular Member WhistlingJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    How so?

    Most all of us here understand the corporate policy of honoring each state's laws and have had no negative incident, nor for that matter have even heard of another one.

    It's too far for me to drive or else I would be there this afternoon - OCing while shopping, expecting to be treated like the legal, responsible person I am.
    And you know what, you can do that. As for me I have already been dismissed from the building by a member of the management staff and told firearms are not allowed. I have not be told by anyone higher up (not the store manager or anyone else) anything to contradict, nor given any assurance that it will not happen again in the future. So for me it is a no go because if I go back while OC'ing and that same employee decides to call the cops on me, who do you think the LEO's are going to believe is correct about the store policy?

    For now I simply wanted to make the board aware that there is an as-yet unresolved issue at that location, and advise that OCing there has a good possibility of being unwelcome until a resolution to the matter at hand comes.
    Last edited by WhistlingJack; 07-16-2013 at 04:46 PM.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good"
    -George Washington

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    Regular Member WhistlingJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Daddy XD View Post
    What does a loss prevention officer have to do with company policy on firearms? You were ocing not stealing. Sounds like they put you in contact with someone who can't help you.

    Did you tell the loss prevention agent while they have every right to ask you to leave that no employee has the right to ask you to leave because of their personal feelings when they are going against company policy?
    As stated she refused to give an affirmative yes or no on whether or not carrying is in fact allowed on their premises. Makes it kind of hard to say the employee was going against policy when no direct answer on policy would be given.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good"
    -George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhistlingJack View Post
    Minor Update

    Kroger got back to me surprisingly quick on the issue, I went in this morning and spoke with a store manager, who arranged for me to speak to a Loss Prevention Agent about the incident. (I learned from the store-manager that from the employee's dress they were a Dept. Manager, but being on different shifts she would have to inquire to know exactly who it was based upon the detailed description I gave.) With the LP Agent I explained what happened, the rather rude treatment by the employee and the fact she approached me with no nametag (and that I suspect she removed it before speaking with me so that I would not know her name).

    The LP agent did not dispute the employee was one of theirs. She affirmed the company's right to ask me to leave or put the firearm in my car. I told her I have the utmost respect for the company's right to do so even if I don't like it, (private property rights are just as sacred as any other right) but that does not address the issue of the treatment I received by the employee. Specifically lying to me that someone had complained, then backtracking on the statement when I questioned her if someone had in fact complained. Then telling me that it was the corporate policy before rudely telling me to leave. The LP agent then stated that she would contact the store about the incident. She carefully avoided giving an affirmative yes or no as to whether or not OCing will be acceptable at that location in the future, and stated she would contact me later after having dealt with the store.

    If there are any noteworthy updates in the future I will post them, but for the time being it seems OCing in that location is unwise.
    Why are you "respecting their rights" when they don't care about yours?

    Well, you played the game and now you need to decide if you wish to go back.

    Get confronted again? Follow my previously posted recommended method of dealing with such a low level employee.

    I don't even have trouble with managers, let alone min. wage employees.

    Play nice and lose or be a ******** and win .. up to you entirely.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-16-2013 at 05:43 PM. Reason: verbiage

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Why are you "respecting their rights" when they don't care about yours?

    Well, you played the game and now you need to decide if you wish to go back.

    Get confronted again? Follow my previously posted recommended method of dealing with such a low level employee.

    I don't even have trouble with managers, let alone min. wage employees.

    Play nice and lose or be a ******** and win .. up to you entirely.
    Don't see it that way at all - one there was no 'they." There was one errant employee.

    Standard recommended procedure would have likely cleared this up at the inception: Gotten the employee's name and position, gone directly to the MOD (manager on duty) and solved the problem, hopefully with a recorder running. Everyone goes through learning experiences - no need to be harsh on our guy.

    To my knowledge no one has been advised to not return, so proceed normally.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Daddy XD View Post
    What does a loss prevention officer have to do with company policy on firearms?
    Loss Prevention used to be called "security". In many states anyone called "security" must be licensed and wear a uniform, even if unarmed; LP doesn't want either.

    In the corporate heirarchy, LP still falls under security, and --right or wrong-- store management refers all security-related issues to LP.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Kroger's phone lines were nearly melted down by the publication of an anti-gun stance a few years ago. Calls were received nationwide - and the policy changed.

    I wonder if Kroger needs a re-do?

    Looking forward to the OP's next update.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Why?
    Never felt comfortable carrying loaded in liquor stores, always keep my mags with my in the mag pouch, just take a mag out of the well before I go in, force of habit. Plus, a strong majority of liquor stores have they're own 'defense' system ;3 including the Kroger store, as mentioned by an ex-BF of mine who was a manager there for a few years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't see it that way at all - one there was no 'they." There was one errant employee.

    Standard recommended procedure would have likely cleared this up at the inception: Gotten the employee's name and position, gone directly to the MOD (manager on duty) and solved the problem, hopefully with a recorder running. Everyone goes through learning experiences - no need to be harsh on our guy.

    To my knowledge no one has been advised to not return, so proceed normally.
    I don't see where the guy was told not to return either .. but notice was given that he cannot come in with a firearm ~ that's all the law requires.

    Not being harsh on the guy - just pointing out the errors in how to handle such matters. And, no, I don't think that talking to the manager is going to create a positive results; indeed only negative ~ because now you/he just told him that he was given notice not to carry his gun into the store...so its no longer a he-said, she-said situation. I would think the cops would arrest him if he shows up with a gun on his hip again.

    Store "policy" is not legally binding .. just a guide.

    This is a good example of why carrying a recorder around with you can backfire on the purpose of carrying one ~ you just made evidence that could be used against you in court.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-17-2013 at 12:28 PM.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I don't see where the guy was told not to return either .. but notice was given that he cannot come in with a firearm ~ that's all the law requires.

    Not being harsh on the guy - just pointing out the errors in how to handle such matters. And, no, I don't think that talking to the manager is going to create a positive results; indeed only negative ~ because now you/he just told him that he was given notice not to carry his gun into the store...so its no longer a he-said, she-said situation. I would think the cops would arrest him if he shows up with a gun on his hip again.

    Store "policy" is not legally binding .. just a guide.

    This is a good example of why carrying a recorder around with you can backfire on the purpose of carrying one ~ you just made evidence that could be used against you in court.
    Perhaps this is a case of ymmv.

    Have had numerous "events" where going to the top on site manager has paid major dividends, solved the problem: Food Lion in Chesterfield, Books-A-Million & Jimmy Johns Subs in Henrico, Wal-Mart in Chesterfield, and Fuddruckers in Richmond to name a few.

    There will be no recorded evidence to be used against me in court as I either enter sterile or meet the manager at a neutral location.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Mattimusmaximus's Avatar
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    Kicked out of Kroger

    Quote Originally Posted by WhistlingJack View Post
    Earlier today 7/15/13, I patronized the Kroger located at 4,009 Poplar Level Road. Was present for about 15 minutes, trying to find what I was looking for after one of the typical resorting these stores like to do. A Manager came up to me (African-American woman, no name tag, but professional dress) and told me that Firearms were not allowed on the premises and I would have to put it in my car or leave.

    I told her no problem, I would be happy to take my business elsewhere, and pointed out that there was no sign posted on the doors. She rudely returned that it was policy in all Kroger stores, and that she would put a sign up post-haste because customers had complained. I inquired further if someone had just complained and she said no, and alluded to complaints having been levied in the past. I pointed out that it seemed more likely to me that she simply had an issue with it, and that I would remove myself from the store. She then inquired if I were law enforcement of some sort while on my way out, and I politely told her that whatever my profession, it is frankly none of her business.

    I find it strange because I shop at this Kroger frequently, no employee (many of whom I have conversed with several times about legal carry etc.) ever voiced any problem or concern. I would be contacting Kroger corporate about the issue to establish what their policy actually is, but figured I would inform the members of this board that for the time being it seems that location is not OC friendly.
    I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Kroger businesses. My wife works for Kroger sister store Fred Meyers and they sent out a policy notice a month ago stating that OC is NOT against policy. But it is instead left up to the store managers discretion. Signed head of Kroger.


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Rock solid description of Gutshot.

    Following or honoring state law leaves the business with the option of making a decision that best fits the circumstance and their goals - they are idling in neutral, tacitly allowing us to carry in the meanwhile.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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