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Kicked out of Kroger

DrakeZ07

Regular Member
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Mar 26, 2011
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1,080
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Lexington, Ky

Never felt comfortable carrying loaded in liquor stores, always keep my mags with my in the mag pouch, just take a mag out of the well before I go in, force of habit. Plus, a strong majority of liquor stores have they're own 'defense' system ;3 including the Kroger store, as mentioned by an ex-BF of mine who was a manager there for a few years.
 

davidmcbeth

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earth's crust
Don't see it that way at all - one there was no 'they." There was one errant employee.

Standard recommended procedure would have likely cleared this up at the inception: Gotten the employee's name and position, gone directly to the MOD (manager on duty) and solved the problem, hopefully with a recorder running. Everyone goes through learning experiences - no need to be harsh on our guy.

To my knowledge no one has been advised to not return, so proceed normally.

I don't see where the guy was told not to return either .. but notice was given that he cannot come in with a firearm ~ that's all the law requires.

Not being harsh on the guy - just pointing out the errors in how to handle such matters. And, no, I don't think that talking to the manager is going to create a positive results; indeed only negative ~ because now you/he just told him that he was given notice not to carry his gun into the store...so its no longer a he-said, she-said situation. I would think the cops would arrest him if he shows up with a gun on his hip again.

Store "policy" is not legally binding .. just a guide.

This is a good example of why carrying a recorder around with you can backfire on the purpose of carrying one ~ you just made evidence that could be used against you in court.
 
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Grapeshot

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Valhalla
I don't see where the guy was told not to return either .. but notice was given that he cannot come in with a firearm ~ that's all the law requires.

Not being harsh on the guy - just pointing out the errors in how to handle such matters. And, no, I don't think that talking to the manager is going to create a positive results; indeed only negative ~ because now you/he just told him that he was given notice not to carry his gun into the store...so its no longer a he-said, she-said situation. I would think the cops would arrest him if he shows up with a gun on his hip again.

Store "policy" is not legally binding .. just a guide.

This is a good example of why carrying a recorder around with you can backfire on the purpose of carrying one ~ you just made evidence that could be used against you in court.

Perhaps this is a case of ymmv.

Have had numerous "events" where going to the top on site manager has paid major dividends, solved the problem: Food Lion in Chesterfield, Books-A-Million & Jimmy Johns Subs in Henrico, Wal-Mart in Chesterfield, and Fuddruckers in Richmond to name a few.

There will be no recorded evidence to be used against me in court as I either enter sterile or meet the manager at a neutral location.
 

Mattimusmaximus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
257
Location
Hillsboro
Earlier today 7/15/13, I patronized the Kroger located at 4,009 Poplar Level Road. Was present for about 15 minutes, trying to find what I was looking for after one of the typical resorting these stores like to do. A Manager came up to me (African-American woman, no name tag, but professional dress) and told me that Firearms were not allowed on the premises and I would have to put it in my car or leave.

I told her no problem, I would be happy to take my business elsewhere, and pointed out that there was no sign posted on the doors. She rudely returned that it was policy in all Kroger stores, and that she would put a sign up post-haste because customers had complained. I inquired further if someone had just complained and she said no, and alluded to complaints having been levied in the past. I pointed out that it seemed more likely to me that she simply had an issue with it, and that I would remove myself from the store. She then inquired if I were law enforcement of some sort while on my way out, and I politely told her that whatever my profession, it is frankly none of her business.

I find it strange because I shop at this Kroger frequently, no employee (many of whom I have conversed with several times about legal carry etc.) ever voiced any problem or concern. I would be contacting Kroger corporate about the issue to establish what their policy actually is, but figured I would inform the members of this board that for the time being it seems that location is not OC friendly.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Kroger businesses. My wife works for Kroger sister store Fred Meyers and they sent out a policy notice a month ago stating that OC is NOT against policy. But it is instead left up to the store managers discretion. Signed head of Kroger.


-Matt of Hillsboro OR-
 

Grapeshot

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Rock solid description of Gutshot.

Following or honoring state law leaves the business with the option of making a decision that best fits the circumstance and their goals - they are idling in neutral, tacitly allowing us to carry in the meanwhile.
 

KBCraig

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Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
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Granite State of Mind
Never felt comfortable carrying loaded in liquor stores, always keep my mags with my in the mag pouch, just take a mag out of the well before I go in, force of habit.

If your guns are such problematic alcoholics that the mere presence of sealed bottles of alcohol might cause them to leap from your holster and go on a rampage, it's time to get them into a program and replace them with sober guns.
 

DrakeZ07

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Joined
Mar 26, 2011
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Location
Lexington, Ky
If your guns are such problematic alcoholics that the mere presence of sealed bottles of alcohol might cause them to leap from your holster and go on a rampage, it's time to get them into a program and replace them with sober guns.

Lol. My hi-point is too poor and cheap to be an alcoholic.
 

davidmcbeth

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Rock solid description of Gutshot.

Following or honoring state law leaves the business with the option of making a decision that best fits the circumstance and their goals - they are idling in neutral, tacitly allowing us to carry in the meanwhile.

Hardly "idling in neutral"...businesses contribute to political parties, PACS, etc.

I think my viewpoint on the inappropriateness of inviting carriers to their store and then asking them not to carry has been described elsewhere.
 

Grapeshot

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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Grapeshot --snip--

Following or honoring state law leaves the business with the option of making a decision that best fits the circumstance and their goals - they are idling in neutral, tacitly allowing us to carry in the meanwhile.

Hardly "idling in neutral"...businesses contribute to political parties, PACS, etc.

I think my viewpoint on the inappropriateness of inviting carriers to their store and then asking them not to carry has been described elsewhere.
Businesses that neither actively promote nor actively refuse service to those that carry are most assuredly operating from a neutral position and that inures to our benefit. This policy is not permenantly static and still subject to change, hence my description "idling in neutral" - tacitly allowing OC/CC.

What other activity or stance an organization may have is neither the point of this thread nor my reply. Expecting 100% endorsement is IMO not a realistic goal - indeed it is not necessary in order to accomplish being allowed to have the capacity to defend ourselves. We must be careful of what we ask - we just might get it.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
...If some anti throws a screaming fit in the middle of the store, they may feel the best thing for everyone is to ask you to leave and then come back some other time...
Yes, they may, but this is precisely the approach that "we" need discourage them or any other business from taking - throwing out well-behaving, paying customer because of the irrational reaction of another customer.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Me: "Do I understand you correctly Ma'am/Sir that I am not permitted to defend myself or my family in your business?"
Ma'am/Sir: "You are very welcome to shop here, just not armed."
Me: "Thank you Ma'am/Sir, I will be leaving right now."

No fuss, no muss.
 

davidmcbeth

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earth's crust

Yes, they may, but this is precisely the approach that "we" need discourage them or any other business from taking - throwing out well-behaving, paying customer because of the irrational reaction of another customer.

I agree, gutshot wants someone else to defend his rights obviously. "OK, I'll come back later" is the equivalent of saying "I approve". It is this attitude that results in the gun laws that restrict our rights today.
 

Grapeshot

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I agree, gutshot wants someone else to defend his rights obviously. "OK, I'll come back later" is the equivalent of saying "I approve". It is this attitude that results in the gun laws that restrict our rights today.
What?! I don't thinks so.

Gutshot has arguable done as much as anyone to defend the rights of others. He is a voice of common sense and reason. He is effective.

Not holding court in the street or store is hardly giving approval or contributing to a restriction of rights. In fact it might be said to pick your battles and your battleground wisely.
 

davidmcbeth

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Gutshot has arguable done as much as anyone to defend the rights of others. .

Such as? In this particular type of instance ... he leaves w/o complaint and comes back later to do business. Nothing more. Leaving the protection of gun rights to someone else, right?
 

Grapeshot

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Such as? In this particular type of instance ... he leaves w/o complaint and comes back later to do business. Nothing more. Leaving the protection of gun rights to someone else, right?

In this particular instance he was not in the store, was discussing circumstances and abandoned gun rights not at all.

I see no reason to list his accomplishments nor build a case for him. I do count him as an intelligent promoter and defender of gun rights.
 

Red Dawg

Regular Member
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Dec 29, 2010
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399
Location
Eastern VA, with too many people
As an ambassador of "good guy gun carriers", when/if we are asked to leave, I feel it best at that time, to go ahead and leave. Come back and talk to a real manager and get a real answer. If the name tag on says they are a real manager, then you take it up the chain. If you make a stink right there, and force their hand, then there will be witnesses to the effect. And from there, it could possibly go south for the good guy. The pen is mightier than the sword is a good thing to remember when trying to be a good guy. Money talks and BS walks is as well. If they don't want your gun carrying money, there are places that do.
 

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
We all need to consider what "following state law" means. It does not mean blindly accepting anyone and everyone or any and all conduct while a visitor to a store is in possession of a firearm. In my opinion, it just means that they do not have an automatic policy one way or the other and they try to stay out of the issue and accomodate both sides. It does not mean "fighting for your right to carry", although those kinds of businesses do exist. It means that in "some" circumstances they "may" not object to a law abiding citizen carrying a firearm while acting in a responsible manner as long as it does not interfere with their business. When, in their opinion, it does interfere with their business they may very well continue to "follow state law" by asking the visitor to leave. If their trusted employee, absent a policy either way, can come up with a plausible reason for asking a paying customer to leave, I would expect the employer to back him up. If I were the employee, I'd demand they back me up. If some anti throws a screaming fit in the middle of the store, they may feel the best thing for everyone is to ask you to leave and then come back some other time. My point is that even if the policy is to allow carry, there may be times or circumstances when the manager feels it best to do what he thinks is best for the circumstances and you may not be aware of those circumstances. I feel confident in saying that if a business owner (or his representative) is presented with the option of either banning firearms or going out of business, firearms will be banned.

The bolded statement above concerns me. If a customer were to "throw a screaming fit in the middle of the store" over any other situation, e.g., that someone is wearing a shirt that expresses a politically incorrect statement, what would the store manager do? Ask the person wearing the shirt to leave? Or ask the 'screamer' to stop making a scene or leave? I understand that some people are hoplophobes, but their insecurity should not cause management to ask a law-abiding citizen to leave.

Everyone has the right to choose when and where one shops. As OCer's, we exercise that right by refusing to shop in stores where our ability to carry is denied. Why shouldn't the same hold true for hoplophobes? That is, shouldn't they -- upon 'throwing a screaming fit' -- be advised that the OCer is within his/her rights and if that is of concern to the hoplophobe, perhaps they should exercise their patronage somewhere else. In either case, the store is going to lose a customer. Why should it be the law-abiding citizen instead of the irrational hoplophobe?
 

papa bear

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Jul 25, 2010
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mayberry, nc
WHISTLINGJACK, you just got pacified. you were sent to a flunky that didn't give a rats ass what you thought. he was backing up the manager and probably just giving you their personal opinion

Please, Please pursue this farther. go the the district and/or the regional manager. keep going up the line till you get the company policy that firearms are not allowed in the store (does not exists). if the answer is that they are not allowed then it is up to you weather or not you go back
 

DrakeZ07

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Joined
Mar 26, 2011
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1,080
Location
Lexington, Ky
I agree, gutshot wants someone else to defend his rights obviously. "OK, I'll come back later" is the equivalent of saying "I approve". It is this attitude that results in the gun laws that restrict our rights today.

Here's a couple things you forget, don't know, or haven't taken the time to learn/read before belching our your bloated opinion.

1. Gutshot is a extremely well respected advocate of CC and OC, a darn fine gentleman, and a person whom I consider to be the de facto 'leader'/spokesman of Kentucky's open carry group.

2. "It is this attitude that results in the gun laws that restrict our rights today" ... Your wording alone speaks volumes about your ignorance of the rights enumerated to us citizens in the Commonwealth's Constitution, and in Firearms related court cases. This commonwealth is one of the most [if not ranked first of all] Open Carry friendly, and firearms friendly states in the entire nation, and probably in the world.

3. As Grapeshot mentioned, and to elaborate it moreso, Gutshot has done more for gun rights in our state than most anyone else on this forum [Not to belittle the efforts of the other big-wigs on the forum, the moderators, and the forum owner himself.]

D. He's darn cute with his epic beard and shades and hat.
 
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KRM59

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Jul 17, 2010
Messages
256
Location
louisville, Kentucky
Here's a couple things you forget, don't know, or haven't taken the time to learn/read before belching our your bloated opinion.

1. Gutshot is a extremely well respected advocate of CC and OC, a darn fine gentleman, and a person whom I consider to be the de facto 'leader'/spokesman of Kentucky's open carry group.

2. "It is this attitude that results in the gun laws that restrict our rights today" ... Your wording alone speaks volumes about your ignorance of the rights enumerated to us citizens in the Commonwealth's Constitution, and in Firearms related court cases. This commonwealth is one of the most [if not ranked first of all] Open Carry friendly, and firearms friendly states in the entire nation, and probably in the world.

3. As Grapeshot mentioned, and to elaborate it moreso, Gutshot has done more for gun rights in our state than most anyone else on this forum [Not to belittle the efforts of the other big-wigs on the forum, the moderators, and the forum owner himself.]

D. He's darn cute with his epic beard and shades and hat.





Watch out Gutshot, Drakes on the prowl... :lol:
 
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