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Thread: Carrying question?

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    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    Carrying question?

    My family has a family reunion every year at the Highland Recreation state park in Highland, MI. This year the person who is hosting it, and rented the pavilion expressed to me that if I were to show up carrying that they would contact DNR and the police to have me removed from the festivities. Is this legal??? If so, I guess I will be here at home safe while they enjoy themselves.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Carrying question?

    The understanding I have received from various lawyers (of our persuasion) is that a private party who rents public property may exhibit control over it, up to and including banning firearms.

    A better question to ask is: would you wish to cause drama at your family reunion?

    What's more important to you? The family peace or your right to carry openly in a given day/place?

    That answer lies only within you.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    A better question to ask is: would you wish to cause drama at your family reunion?

    What's more important to you? The family peace or your right to carry openly in a given day/place?

    That answer lies only within you.
    Thank you for the response. The thing is this person is one of four or five that have the problem. The rest of the family could care less as they did a year ago. Someone else organized the day and did not care, this person vowed to put a stop to it.
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 07-16-2013 at 01:06 PM. Reason: inserted quote tag

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Huh???

    Quote Originally Posted by [SIZE=5
    TheQ;1961599]The understanding I have received from various lawyers (of our persuasion) is that a private party who rents public property may exhibit control over it, up to and including banning firearms
    Quote Originally Posted by [SIZE=5
    .
    [/SIZE]
    A better question to ask is: would you wish to cause drama at your family reunion?

    What's more important to you? The family peace or your right to carry openly in a given day/place?

    That answer lies only within you.
    .
    The, I cant bold the first line,,, is just not true!!. It wasn't true in Royal Oak, at Arts Beat N Eats, It isn't true in Seattle, at the Hemp fest, and it isn't true at some other places that I cant remember, but was proven it isn't true at either! Preemption,,, really means something!!!
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 07-15-2013 at 11:59 PM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

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    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  5. #5
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Carrying question?

    Quote Originally Posted by OneForAll View Post
    Thank you for the response. The thing is this person is one of four or five that have the problem. The rest of the family could care less as they did a year ago. Someone else organized the day and did not care, this person vowed to put a stop to it.
    Maybe you could organize the next reunion on your terms?
    Last edited by TheQ; 07-16-2013 at 12:02 AM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Carrying question?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    .
    The, I cant bold the first line,,, is just not true!!. It wasn't true in Royal Oak, at Arts Beat N Eats, It isn't true in Seattle, at the Hemp fest, and it isn't true at some other places that I cant remember, but was proven it isn't true at either! Preemption,,, really means something!!!
    Arts Beats and Eats never even went to court. It set zero precedence in law. The fact of the matter is, you can believe how you choose. The fact is your opinion means as little as mine or anyone else's -- unless men in black moo-moo robes agree with it. I will relay the information that was given to me by our learned 2A barrister brother.

    I suppose you believe the Constitution mean something too? If that is so, why hasn't the Constitution stopped people from trampling all over it?

    But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain – that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.

    ~ Lysander Spooner
    Last edited by TheQ; 07-16-2013 at 12:09 AM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  7. #7
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ
    A better question to ask is: would you wish to cause drama at your family reunion?

    What's more important to you? The family peace or your right to carry openly in a given day/place?

    That answer lies only within you.
    Quote Originally Posted by OneForAll
    Thank you for the response. The thing is this person is one of four or five that have the problem. The rest of the family could care less as they did a year ago. Someone else organized the day and did not care, this person vowed to put a stop to it.
    Tough spot to be in. If it were me I'd pay a younger member of the family to recruit a "punk.d" team & stage a fake robbery ...JUST KIDDING DO NOT DO IT. Respect needs to go both ways in your family. Clearly - currently it doesn't with some members.
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 07-16-2013 at 01:09 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags
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    They rented the pavilion, not the entire park. Just don't go under the pavilion.

    Or just show up, stuff your face with their food real quick, say hi, say bye, and leave before drama has a chance to unfold.

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    What a great family member. He should be proud. Calling the police and DNR on a member of his family, because he doesn't agree with your view, should make him very popular with the rest of the family. We all have sheeple in our relation though. I would just not go.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by casper View Post
    What a great family member. He should be proud. Calling the police and DNR on a member of his family, because he doesn't agree with your view, should make him very popular with the rest of the family. We all have sheeple in our relation though. I would just not go.
    I was thinking the same thing. That is F'd up. Anywho...

    To expand on what Q said, it is my understanding that if private property is leased by another, then their rules apply. Public property remains public. I dont have case law to support this, as like I said, this is just the way I understand it.

    My advice to the OP, talk with this "family" member. See what their deal is. But as one other poster said, if they only rented the pavilion, then bring a chair. Or, even better...Rent your own pavilion, and make it more fun than his. LOL
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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  11. #11
    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    Honestly, I am going this route, I am not attending. Other have a heads up on this matter now and encouraged me to stay behind this time. What they are hoping is by conspiring with the rest of the family about this individual and the few others power trip. May be they will feel unease because everyone is passing around why I was not able to attend. What is funny is one of the relatives complaining owns more guns than I do and has their CPL. Because of this, they think they have it covered and there is no need for anymore protection.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I see lots of room for hilarity in this reunion.

    Call the guy who objects. Tell him you are going to exercise your 2A rights. Send him a pdf on 'preemption' and tell him you'll sue his arse for harassment if he calls cops on you for OC-ing (stay outside the pavillion if you wish).

    Have a video and your recorder running.

    Perhaps, show up, but:
    1. Have an empty holster; or
    2. Have a toy gun OC-ed; or
    3. Have your wife/girlfriend OC. Mock the guy's dick size if he calls on or tries to arrest her.

    Show up but stay in your car (research carry laws in your state); have others who agree with your stance raid the food and bring it to you. Send a mocking text to the organizer, but append 'just kidding, broseph'.

    Keep it full of humor, but don't be too pushy, don't make an enemy, organize it yourself next year and make carrying of at least a toygun mandatory.

    Good luck. let us know.

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    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    I see lots of room for hilarity in this reunion.

    Call the guy who objects. Tell him you are going to exercise your 2A rights. Send him a pdf on 'preemption' and tell him you'll sue his arse for harassment if he calls cops on you for OC-ing (stay outside the pavillion if you wish).

    Have a video and your recorder running.

    Perhaps, show up, but:
    1. Have an empty holster; or
    2. Have a toy gun OC-ed; or
    3. Have your wife/girlfriend OC. Mock the guy's dick size if he calls on or tries to arrest her.

    Show up but stay in your car (research carry laws in your state); have others who agree with your stance raid the food and bring it to you. Send a mocking text to the organizer, but append 'just kidding, broseph'.

    Keep it full of humor, but don't be too pushy, don't make an enemy, organize it yourself next year and make carrying of at least a toygun mandatory.

    Good luck. let us know.
    LMAO.... For the record, it is a female that is against open carry. Thinks you should conceal at all times.
    Last edited by OneForAll; 07-16-2013 at 12:10 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneForAll View Post
    LMAO.... For the record, it is a females that is against open carry. Thinks you should conceal at all times.
    Mea culpa...ok, mock her hair style, then.

    (Any chance the party is clothing optional?)
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 07-16-2013 at 01:12 PM. Reason: edited out objectionable remark.

  15. #15
    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    I do not think a family reunion is the best time for clothing to be optional... lol

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Carrying question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    To expand on what Q said, it is my understanding that if private property is leased by another, then their rules apply. Public property remains public. I dont have case law to support this, as like I said, this is just the way I understand it.
    There is no case law on it. That's the problem.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Re: Carrying question?

    Quote Originally Posted by OneForAll View Post
    I do not think a family reunion is the best time for clothing to be optional... lol
    About 25 or so years ago, one of my family members that actually has a sense of humor mentioned they were going to organize the next reunion at a Nudist Colony. Even though most of the family knew they were joking, a couple of my cousins with sticks up their backsides threatened to sue him if he went through with it. They couldn't say what the charges would be, though.


    On the toy gun idea: be careful with that. Firearms are covered under laws, statutes, BoR, etc. Toys are not, and some localities may have codes against it. Advise checking local laws before doing this.
    Last edited by b0neZ; 07-16-2013 at 01:04 PM.

  18. #18
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneForAll View Post
    Honestly, I am going this route, I am not attending. Other have a heads up on this matter now and encouraged me to stay behind this time. What they are hoping is by conspiring with the rest of the family about this individual and the few others power trip. May be they will feel unease because everyone is passing around why I was not able to attend. What is funny is one of the relatives complaining owns more guns than I do and has their CPL. Because of this, they think they have it covered and there is no need for anymore protection.
    I have to say "bravo!" That's what I'd have done. And, I'd make sure that all the other family members knew why I wasn't there.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0neZ View Post
    About 25 or so years ago, one of my family members that actually has a sense of humor mentioned they were going to organize the next reunion at a Nudist Colony. Even though most of the family knew they were joking, a couple of my cousins with sticks up their backsides threatened to sue him if he went through with it. They couldn't say what the charges would be, though.


    On the toy gun idea: be careful with that. Firearms are covered under laws, statutes, BoR, etc. Toys are not, and some localities may have codes against it. Advise checking local laws before doing this.
    Thanks for keeping with the spirit of playful disobedience and humor on this subject. I'm really just kidding around but we all sometimes get goofy when trying to placate those with silly ideas that are anti 2A and wish we could expose them for the frippery they are. Guns jumping from holsters, cats and dogs sleeping together, women knowing what they want(*), you know.

    *(apologies to MKeGal)
    Last edited by Maverick9; 07-16-2013 at 01:55 PM.

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    Re: Carrying question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    cats and dogs sleeping together,
    I caught that Ghostbusters reference!

    And thank you for taking my post as it was intended.

    I hope you are able to get this issue settled once and for all.
    Last edited by b0neZ; 07-16-2013 at 02:12 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    I would send each and every family member a note ....

    And that note would emphasize that one certain member of the family is attempting to hold the entire reunion hostage and cause conflict according to their own personal beliefs while disregarding the beliefs of not only me... but of every other family member who might not agree with her.

    I would emphasize that my disagreement with the "rules" of the reunion aren't so much about firearms or rights... but is entirely about one member of the family thinking they have the power to RULE over the entire family just because they organized the event/rented the pavilion.

    I would make every effort possible to show that this entire thing isn't really about firearms but is actually about this person wanting to control............ the family.

    And my note would include a notice that I have rented another pavilion in the same park and invite any and all family members who agree with me to join me there.

    In the end... I would know which members of the family I wanted to associate with in the future... and which one's to ignore.

    But then... I'm odd because I don't consider that just because someone is a family member that automatically means they are someone I should give a crap about.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 07-16-2013 at 05:41 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Have a open carry event in the next spot over on the same day :-) invite your family over for the event :-) Problem solved, Include good food everyone will show !!!

  23. #23
    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    I figure I am sitting this one out, but thank you for input... I have 4 kids including a 5 week old baby girl I am not dragging into this mess. Especially when it involves a 40 minute trip to even get there just to be sent home because of a few anti's.
    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    - Richard Henry Lee
    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
    - Samuel Adams

    Some random person, "I will not give up safety because of a few misplaced concerns of the uneducated." end quote...

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneForAll View Post
    I figure I am sitting this one out, but thank you for input... I have 4 kids including a 5 week old baby girl I am not dragging into this mess. Especially when it involves a 40 minute trip to even get there just to be sent home because of a few anti's.

    Of course it is your decision... but if you don't address this in some way...

    The anti's win.

    If you are Ok with that then...
    Last edited by Bikenut; 07-16-2013 at 07:31 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  25. #25
    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Of course it is your decision... but if you don't address this in some way...

    The anti's win.

    If you are Ok with that then...
    In a previous post I stated that the good side of my family is taking care of this matter for me. There is already talk in the air that this anti is not going to be allowed to host another one because of the issue she is causing. After everything is said and done, I plan on posting the end result of this non-sense.
    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    - Richard Henry Lee
    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
    - Samuel Adams

    Some random person, "I will not give up safety because of a few misplaced concerns of the uneducated." end quote...

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