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Thread: I'm sick of pro-Zimmerman people saying that the self-defense shooting is "tragic"

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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Exclamation I'm sick of pro-Zimmerman people saying that the self-defense shooting is "tragic"

    Since the shooting is a case of incontrovertible self-defense, it is not tragic. I feel like vomiting after hearing and reading FOX news talking heads, Zimmerman family members (hell, even Zimmerman himself), and others who indicate that they know the truth---that this is a case of indisuputable self-defense---subsequently add that this incident is a tragedy (and some of them also add that they are praying for Martin's parents). While I realize that it is highly likely that the vast majority of these individuals are doing this purely for public relations reasons, it is sickening that we live in a society where people have to dirty the truth with politically correct platitudes. In a sane world, the pure, unadulterated truth would be stated, and that would be the end of it.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Pot. Kettle.. Minarchist.

    Having a hard time telling one from the other.

    BTW - I know a few good therapists up in your neck of the woods, if you are interested in some help dealing with a world that does not work the way you wished it did.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Pot. Kettle.. Minarchist.

    Having a hard time telling one from the other.

    BTW - I know a few good therapists up in your neck of the woods, if you are interested in some help dealing with a world that does not work the way you wished it did.

    stay safe.
    Elaborate on the alleged hypocrisy.

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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    I'm sick of pro-Zimmerman people saying that the self-defense shooting is "trag

    its not a tragedy. it was self defense. what is a tragedy is the media and all the idiots pulling heartstrings for a punk a$$ thug who got what he deserved when he attacked another person.

    if you were walking home and happen to be behind someone and then they attacked you for no reason it would be wrong of you to use lethal force as self defense when you are overwhelmed? good logic there man, good luck surviving.
    HOPE FOR THE BEST, EXPECT THE WORST, PREPARE FOR WAR

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Okay - unless you are a sociophath or psychopath the tragedy is - a family has buried a child. No matter right, wrong, if Tryvann had jumped off a skyscraper would that not too be a tragedy? When one human must take anothers life that is a tradgedy. Even if that person was doing wrong. A jury has ruled that the force used was justified, our system has worked. Now hopefully we as humans can learn from this fiasco of mistakes and make sure we don't repeat it.

    No one really knows what happened other than George Zimmerman & I bet if he could go back in time, he would do things much differently and hopefully others will in the future. The tragedy also comes from the missed chances of both parties to have communicated to one another, something that everyone seems to gloss over. A few words spoken in genuine goodwill from either party could have de-escalated this from a justifed shooting to a "oh cool, have a safe night, take care - you too..." scenario.
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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    I'm sick of pro-Zimmerman people saying that the self-defense shooting is "trag

    to each his own...
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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Okay - unless you are a sociophath or psychopath the tragedy is - a family has buried a child. No matter right, wrong, if Tryvann had jumped off a skyscraper would that not too be a tragedy? When one human must take anothers life that is a tradgedy. Even if that person was doing wrong. A jury has ruled that the force used was justified, our system has worked. Now hopefully we as humans can learn from this fiasco of mistakes and make sure we don't repeat it.

    No one really knows what happened other than George Zimmerman & I bet if he could go back in time, he would do things much differently and hopefully others will in the future. The tragedy also comes from the missed chances of both parties to have communicated to one another, something that everyone seems to gloss over. A few words spoken in genuine goodwill from either party could have de-escalated this from a justifed shooting to a "oh cool, have a safe night, take care - you too..." scenario.
    For some reason that I can't quite put my finger on, I have a suspicion that the establishment "progressives" whom you're sticking up for would not see the death of a white man, killed in self-defense by a black man, as tragic.

    I also have a suspicion that since they would not see the death in that scenario as tragic, you would not make a big deal out of how tragic the violent white man's death is.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    For some reason that I can't quite put my finger on, I have a suspicion that the establishment "progressives" whom you're sticking up for would not see the death of a white man, killed in self-defense by a black man, as tragic.

    I also have a suspicion that since they would not see the death in that scenario as tragic, you would not make a big deal out of how tragic the violent white man's death is.
    You are very wrong. If I had to kill you in a self defense situation I would consider that tragic. We all have people who love us. To end a life is the action of last resort. As for your talk of establishment/progressives etc and their biases - we are all biased, the key is to understand that and work around them, not act on them. I disagree with much of their views and actions, yet I work peacefully to undo their damages. I wish no harm on them.

    That is the great thing about our country, we respect opposing views and acknowledge others rights to them...or atleast we're supposed to, if we truly beleive in our constitution.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 07-16-2013 at 03:41 AM. Reason: clarify
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Still full of meaning & applicable here

    Fear not for whom the bell tolls for it tolls for thee.

    "Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.

    No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne (1572-1631)
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-16-2013 at 05:39 AM.
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    I have no sympathy for the family. They built this thug. The set up whatever sadness they claim.

    They would have been sad when he ended up in jail. They would have been sad when he was convicted of killing his tenth victim. They would have been sad when he got the death penalty. Etc., etc., etc.

    It ain't tragic when one behaves stupidly and makes the natural consequence of the stupidity occur. M made himself die. M's family built the circumstances in which M would, eventually, make himself die.

    No sympathy. A little relief for the people who will be able to live because M is dead.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.

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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    I'm sick of pro-Zimmerman people saying that the self-defense shooting is "trag

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I have no sympathy for the family. They built this thug. The set up whatever sadness they claim.

    They would have been sad when he ended up in jail. They would have been sad when he was convicted of killing his tenth victim. They would have been sad when he got the death penalty. Etc., etc., etc.

    It ain't tragic when one behaves stupidly and makes the natural consequence of the stupidity occur. M made himself die. M's family built the circumstances in which M would, eventually, make himself die.

    No sympathy. A little relief for the people who will be able to live because M is dead.
    ^^^this^^^
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    It is regrettable that a life had to end simply because of a mistaken desire to be tough. It is entirely possible that, had M survived the shooting, he may have recovered and became a productive member of society.

    That's about as likely as Al Sharpton holding candlelight vigils for every single life lost over the Fourth of July Weekend, but still possible.

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    Quantum theory tells us that everything is possible. Hell, I could "possibly" walk through this wall right here.

    Ow.

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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    I'm sick of pro-Zimmerman people saying that the self-defense shooting is "trag

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Quantum theory tells us that everything is possible. Hell, I could "possibly" walk through this wall right here.

    Ow.
    you possibly could be born in another country and run for president...

    oh wait that did happen. nevermind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Quantum theory tells us that everything is possible. Hell, I could "possibly" walk through this wall right here.

    Ow.
    Until the cat is either alive or dead, the cat is both alive and dead.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    Since the shooting is a case of incontrovertible self-defense, it is not tragic. I feel like vomiting after hearing and reading FOX news talking heads, Zimmerman family members (hell, even Zimmerman himself), and others who indicate that they know the truth---that this is a case of indisuputable self-defense---subsequently add that this incident is a tragedy (and some of them also add that they are praying for Martin's parents). While I realize that it is highly likely that the vast majority of these individuals are doing this purely for public relations reasons, it is sickening that we live in a society where people have to dirty the truth with politically correct platitudes. In a sane world, the pure, unadulterated truth would be stated, and that would be the end of it.
    The only thing tragic about this whole situation is the fact that the police did the right thing, then the .gov was pressured by racial motivation to persue charges. Zimmerman should have never been in court. The law was followed. The police found no PC for arrest. Then Mr. Racist himself, Al Sharpton, decided to use this shooting as a vehicle for more racial violence.

    I ask, where is he now? When this happened, he called for an end to racial violence. Two days later, a group of black men beat a white man nearly to death. No word from Sharpton. Yesterday, a hispanic kid was beat by a group of black teens...Sharpton? Hello?

    He is a bigot and a racist. The same kind he "fights" against.

    This was merely a continuation of the mob rule system that society has come to accept.
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    Regular Member nemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    Since the shooting is a case of incontrovertible self-defense, it is not tragic. I feel like vomiting after hearing and reading FOX news talking heads, Zimmerman family members (hell, even Zimmerman himself), and others who indicate that they know the truth---that this is a case of indisuputable self-defense---subsequently add that this incident is a tragedy (and some of them also add that they are praying for Martin's parents). While I realize that it is highly likely that the vast majority of these individuals are doing this purely for public relations reasons, it is sickening that we live in a society where people have to dirty the truth with politically correct platitudes. In a sane world, the pure, unadulterated truth would be stated, and that would be the end of it.
    Here is what could have happened, if Zimmerman had not used his gun.

    http://moonbattery.com/?p=33201

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
    +1 An old roommate was fond of that saying. As true now as ever.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    The things I find the most tragic in this case are (order unimportant):

    1) All the thug beatings/assaults of innocent non-black victims in the "name of Trayvon"
    2) The property damage to innocent home owners, vehicle and business owners as the thug supporters vent their anger
    3) GZ and his family for the years of grief that will follow and constant looking over their shoulders
    4) The energy and money that could have been used for something more productive than this sham political trial.

    I do NOT feel sorry for:

    1) the young "man" (not a (&**(&^ child) that was TM...he was old enough to enlist, he was old enough to know better.
    2) The Martin family for failing to try harder to properly raise their son
    3) Anyone in the black community that feels that GZ not being convicted of murder/manslaughter somehow reflects on any injustice they may feel in their daily lives.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Okay - unless you are a sociophath or psychopath the tragedy is - a family has buried a child. No matter right, wrong, if Tryvann had jumped off a skyscraper would that not too be a tragedy? When one human must take anothers life that is a tradgedy. Even if that person was doing wrong. A jury has ruled that the force used was justified, our system has worked. Now hopefully we as humans can learn from this fiasco of mistakes and make sure we don't repeat it.
    +1

    It's tragic that nobody raised Martin to know better. Nobody told him that starting fistfights wasn't cool, wasn't a way of standing up for himself, but would get him rapidly into serious trouble. He died because his parents ascribed to the macho BS subculture, and they themselves undoubtedly believe such behavior is "normal".

    It's tragic because the scenario is doomed to repeat itself again and again until folks wake up, and start recognizing that assaulting someone isn't a normal or acceptable response to that person annoying you.

    At one point in his life, Martin deserved better than his parents were willing to give him. That's tragic.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    +1 An old roommate was fond of that saying. As true now as ever.
    I'd argue that it was precisely Martin's misguided attempt to live his life in this manner that got him killed.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    +1

    At one point in his life, Martin deserved better than his parents were willing to give him. That's tragic.
    Ding Ding Ding!! ALL kids deserve the best their parents can give, not just what they are willing to give.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    +1

    It's tragic that nobody raised Martin to know better. Nobody told him that starting fistfights wasn't cool, wasn't a way of standing up for himself, but would get him rapidly into serious trouble. He died because his parents ascribed to the macho BS subculture, and they themselves undoubtedly believe such behavior is "normal".

    It's tragic because the scenario is doomed to repeat itself again and again until folks wake up, and start recognizing that assaulting someone isn't a normal or acceptable response to that person annoying you.

    At one point in his life, Martin deserved better than his parents were willing to give him. That's tragic.
    +1

    I have said this too. It is very sad that no one loved Mr. Martin enough to parent him. It is sad that even when caught with stolen goods he was shielded from consequences that could have saved his life. If he had learned self restraint or learned that he could not do everything that came into his mind. If he had been taught there are consequences to actions maybe, just maybe, when he thought about "whooping a$$" he would have thought twice. Sadly no one gave a darn about him till he was dead and that is tragic.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: I'm sick of pro-Zimmerman people saying that the self-defense

    Good to see some here get it. +1 Another thought provoking thread is always a good thing in my book.
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