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Michigan preemption question

packeagle

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Michigan
Is this sign:
6yvuzyse.jpg


And this ordinance: (PDF)

In violation of state preemption law? I was riding my bike down the Kochville rail trail the other day and ended up in the park. I noticed this sign so I beet feet out of there to be safe. I thought it was an unlawful ordinance, but didn't wanna chance it as the Sheriff's office has a sub station right there.

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packeagle

Regular Member
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Jul 17, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Michigan
What has been an effective way to deal with such matters? Should I send a letter to the Twp. Board?

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packeagle

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Michigan
What has me concerned is the term permit in the ordinance. The ordinance seems to cover concealed carry. Could it be argued this refers to a purchase permit? Making the ordinance compliant with preemption.

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zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
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Nov 28, 2008
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1,543
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Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
What has me concerned is the term permit in the ordinance. The ordinance seems to cover concealed carry. Could it be argued this refers to a purchase permit? Making the ordinance compliant with preemption.

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A Permit to Purchase, Carry, Possess, and Transport would definitely qualify as a permit.

The ordinance, however, does not allow for long guns, and as such is unenforceable in that regard.
 

packeagle

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Jul 17, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Michigan
A Permit to Purchase, Carry, Possess, and Transport would definitely qualify as a permit.

The ordinance, however, does not allow for long guns, and as such is unenforceable in that regard.

Ok, if a permit to purchase qualifies I guess its a larger battle than I'm willing to undertake. The lawful carry of long guns is a hard sell to the uninformed.

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TheQ

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Aug 2, 2010
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3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan

smellslikemichigan

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Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
i went around in circles with the city of st clair attorney and chief of police about this same issue when i lived up there. they basically told me that by "weapons" they were referring things other than firearms and that i could feel free to lawfully carry. i told them the sign was misleading, but they didn't care. so, until michigan passes some sort of punitive law you may be SOL on this. but hopefully your town does better.
 

packeagle

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Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Michigan
Its misleading to the public. After reading the ordinance I would have been covered with my CPL I don't generally OC. I do on occasion and fully support the right to do so. I knew it was not enforcable and had I been arrested I would have won my case. The sign caused me to second guess that, so I didn't stick around. I hope they follow through. I'm comited.

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bigt8261

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
181
Location
Grand Rapids
i went around in circles with the city of st clair attorney and chief of police about this same issue when i lived up there. they basically told me that by "weapons" they were referring things other than firearms and that i could feel free to lawfully carry. i told them the sign was misleading, but they didn't care. so, until michigan passes some sort of punitive law you may be SOL on this. but hopefully your town does better.

They rarely show up on signs but usually definitions are in the ordinances.

IME, some municipalities will tell to you screw off and won't care what you say, while others will amaze you with how fast they fix the problem.
 

jeffrey-r

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
110
Location
Warren, MI
i went around in circles with the city of st clair attorney and chief of police about this same issue when i lived up there. they basically told me that by "weapons" they were referring things other than firearms and that i could feel free to lawfully carry. i told them the sign was misleading, but they didn't care. so, until michigan passes some sort of punitive law you may be SOL on this. but hopefully your town does better.

Which is silly, isn't it. So weapons would refer to other weapons, like say a Baseball Bat. But in the OP's picture it appears the sign is attached to a baseball diamond, so where does that leave us?

Thus why these kind of declarations are silly. Why should I be prohibited from carrying a weapon? It's already illegal for me to USE the weapon (in an illegal manner) so why restrict it?
 
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Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Its misleading to the public. After reading the ordinance I would have been covered with my CPL I don't generally OC. I do on occasion and fully support the right to do so. I knew it was not enforcable and had I been arrested I would have won my case. The sign caused me to second guess that, so I didn't stick around. I hope they follow through. I'm comited.

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They can NOT control firearm possession. Whether it's a long gun, handgun or if you have or do not have a CPL. A non CPL holder can OC there as well. And long gun OC is lawful too.

This,if you have a CPL crap needs to stop.
 

FreeInAZ

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Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
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Secret Bunker
They can NOT control firearm possession. Whether it's a long gun, handgun or if you have or do not have a CPL. A non CPL holder can OC there as well. And long gun OC is lawful too.

This,if you have a CPL crap needs to stop.

I have long beleived this to be a coordinated effort to keep the number of law-abiding citizens carrying to as few people as possible by authorities. In their minds far better to have under 400,000 people carrying (mostly) CONCEALED scattered across the state, than having potentially MILLIONS of eligible citizens carrying openly. :uhoh:
 

FreeInAZ

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Speaking now as a resident of the great state of AZ: what the knuckle heads in the MI legislature fail to see is that if they did pass constitutional carry like AZ did in 2010, they would basically get their way - that is, the vast majority of people 99%+ will choose to conceal carry. I have been here a year & I can count the number of OCers (other than myself & family) in the greater metro Phoenix area I have seen on one hand. Yes I have travelled the area quite a bit. :eek:
 
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packeagle

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Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Michigan
As to the CPL crap, Its the system we're dealt at the moment. We get a CPL so we can OC in more places. We get a CPL so we can more conveniently drive to the store to OC. Constitutional carry would be nice, but its a pipe dream in this political climate. I'd be more concerned in keeping the Self Defence Act (no duty to retreat) than gaining constitutional CCW. Heck, personally I'd rather get rid of mandatory pistol registration

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FreeInAZ

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Oct 15, 2012
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Secret Bunker
As to the CPL crap, Its the system we're dealt at the moment. We get a CPL so we can OC in more places. We get a CPL so we can more conveniently drive to the store to OC. Constitutional carry would be nice, but its a pipe dream in this political climate. I'd be more concerned in keeping the Self Defence Act (no duty to retreat) than gaining constitutional CCW. Heck, personally I'd rather get rid of mandatory pistol registration

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No offense meant - This is exactly why things will not change there! The pi$$ ants in Lansing need to be made to remember that they work for you, (the people) & not the other way around. The only thing holding back the people of MI, is the people of MI...:uhoh:
 
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