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Thread: Reason not to fly. DHS-TSA excuses parking valet ransacking cars as "security."

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    Reason not to fly. DHS-TSA excuses parking valet ransacking cars as "security."

    "Iacuzza's car was inspected by valet attendants on orders from the TSA. But why only valet parked cars? That's what News10NBC wanted to ask the TSA director about. We reached him by phone."

    http://www.whec.com/news/stories/S3101080.shtml?cat=566

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ransack
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-18-2013 at 07:12 AM. Reason: Provide definition for the unlettered
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Interesting. Valet attendants have been given the keys and would find themselves inside the vehicle with your permission.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Interesting. Valet attendants have been given the keys and would find themselves inside the vehicle with your permission.
    Arguably acting as an agent of the state with implicit permission obviating Fourth Amendment probable cause warrant protections.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Assuming the search is legal, how can it be legal for TSA to delegate this authority to a parking attendant?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Assuming the search is legal, how can it be legal for TSA to delegate this authority to a parking attendant?
    And if you left a PC in the car, then they can search its contents and copy its hard drive?

    Or your at the airport with your PC and you ask a guy to watch it while you go to take a tinkle...did you authorize him to download your hard drive?

    People who cannot see this as illegal activity astounds me.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    And if you left a PC in the car, then they can search its contents and copy its hard drive?

    Or you're at the airport with your PC and you ask a guy to watch it while you go to take a tinkle...did you authorize him to download your hard drive?
    If you didn't notice the tiny sign 30 yards behind him that was put up a week after the incident; that's your fault...
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    Meh. I never trusted my car to a valet. This is just one more reason why not

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Arguably acting as an agent of the state with implicit permission obviating Fourth Amendment probable cause warrant protections.
    Not so sure, unless TSA was giving them money or other inducements/emolients. Looking for the SCOTUS decision that said unpaid snitches who were not specifically asked by LE to search did not violate the 4th Ammendment.

    But if TSA was giving them inducements/emolients they may have been committing fraud against the valet pasrking employer by taking money for services not rendered/time not spent doing what they were getting paid to do. In some states it only takes a total of $200.00 to make it felony fraud. They might be unindicted felons. Can the TSA, let alone the courts, rely on the testimony of an unindicted felon?

    stay safe.
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    Read the back of the valet parking ticket, its quit possible that the language of the contract gives the parking company a legal right to search the vehicle.

    My .02

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    Even without "paying" the Valet to search if it is done under COLOR OF LAW by having the TSA folks telling the Valet parking attendants THAT IT IS REQUIRED would make the valet attendants basically TSA agents by extension. It certainly smacks of UNREASONABLE and without WARRANT or PROBABLE CAUSE to me!
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    Remember the little red car in "Ferris Beuller?"
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    If you didn't notice the tiny sign 30 yards behind him that was put up a week after the incident; that's your fault...
    *sigh* I guess I'm back putting in rabid weasels in my trunk. glove box. consoles...enjoy your search TSA man.

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    Why is this news to anyone. As soon as you enter upon the hallowed grounds of the TSA's turf all constitutional protections for the citizenry are forfeit in the name of public safety and security.

    Rule #1 in the woods: Don't go into the den of a bear, especially when the the bear is in his den.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ... As soon as you enter upon the hallowed grounds of the TSA's turf all constitutional protections for the citizenry are forfeit ....
    Here's part of my problem. I don't see parking as their turf. For example, in the states I frequent, we can carry guns in the airport, right up to the metal detectors before you enter the terminal. TSA's jurisdiction starts there.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Time for our own very discrete video camera(s) in the car, just to see how 'secure' they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Meh. I never trusted my car to a valet. This is just one more reason why not
    eye95's standard response to rights violations which don't affect him: "meh".

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Standard Amerikan response:

    If it will keep me safe from Al-quaeda they can do whatever they want. What if a member of a terrorist organization was hiding in the truck in order to sneak past sleepy security guards at night to plant a bomb on an airplane? That's why I'm for the professional TSA agents using naked body scanners and making people take their shoes and belts off. They could be hiding plastic explosives or something. We also need to bomb Iran so we don't see a mushroom cloud over NYC.

    My response:

    I haven't flown since 2004. I went skydiving last summer but there was were no TSA agents to check me. Sometimes this means driving thousands of miles in a car. I would fly on an airline that let me carry my gun.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    If it will keep me safe from Al-quaeda they can do whatever they want. What if a member of a terrorist organization was hiding in the truck in order to sneak past sleepy security guards at night to plant a bomb on an airplane? That's why I'm for the professional TSA agents using naked body scanners and making people take their shoes and belts off. They could be hiding plastic explosives or something. We also need to bomb Iran so we don't see a mushroom cloud over NYC.
    So they tell us. But you know what? I still have yet to know anybody who actually thinks this way.

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    Reason not to fly. DHS-TSA excuses parking valet ransacking cars as "security."

    Considering all the hassle the TSA puts us through at the airport, I must ask, how many terrorists have these 4A-violating intrusions at the airport actually stopped?

    I believe I know the answer, but am curious what others think (or know) the answer is.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Considering all the hassle the TSA puts us through at the airport, I must ask, how many terrorists have these 4A-violating intrusions at the airport actually stopped?

    I believe I know the answer, but am curious what others think (or know) the answer is.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>
    Well, there was a Medal of Honor recipient that they stopped and hassled...does that one count? If not, I think the number is a big fat zero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, there was a Medal of Honor recipient that they stopped and hassled...does that one count? If not, I think the number is a big fat zero.
    I think that you may be onto something here.

    What are the cost/benefit ratios of the positives (caught terrorists) and negatives (passed passengers) and of the false-positives (the grannies and MoH winners) and false-negatives (missed terrorists)?

    Off to read utility theory -again!
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Interesting. Valet attendants have been given the keys and would find themselves inside the vehicle with your permission.
    But I would think that implied contract is that the valet will park your car, not rule through your stuff.

    Also, if you give them a valet key that only opens the driver door and the ignition and doesn't open the trunk or glovebox then it would be clear you expected privacy. The only stuff a valet should be able to access is stuff already in plain view from the window.

    I find it very odd too that the TSA director was saying that "we'll those cars parked in the front of the airport can do damage with explosives" and yet he has teenagers and low skill workers probing a car for bombs.... Sounds to me like the valets should complain to OSHA since they're apparently being directed to engage in hazardous duty with no training or safety equipment
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 07-19-2013 at 09:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    *sigh* I guess I'm back putting in rabid weasels in my trunk. glove box. consoles...enjoy your search TSA man.
    Just stick with the TRUNK MONKEY'S!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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