hermannr
Regular Member
Your CPL only allows you to conceal, it has no bearing on if you do or not. And yes, your CPL does override the prohibition to general loaded carry in a vehicle, at a time you cannot utilize an exemption from RCW 9.41.060
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Open Carry w/ Conceal Carry Permit Question.
- Thread starter Mavasaur
- Start date
Your CPL only allows you to conceal, it has no bearing on if you do or not. And yes, your CPL does override the prohibition to general loaded carry in a vehicle, at a time you cannot utilize an exemption from RCW 9.41.060
slapmonkay
Campaign Veteran
I am aware of how official AGO's are procured, this not being an official AGO. This is simply correspondence with the AG office, that's not to mean that their opinion is irrelevant as this is the lawyer tasked to the firearms items for the AG.
I was critical of their response and had followup phone calls with them as well, even though some people here didn't see the point. That can be followed here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?107328-Even-the-AG-office-has-it-wrong
Definition of 'Recreation': a pastime, diversion, exercise, or other resource affording relaxation and enjoyment.
At the very least its ambiguous, in my opinion. If a prosecutor could make the case that you are bicycling to work, like you do daily or able to setup some sort of other repetitive history, would one be able to say that your not actually exercising a recreational activity but just traveling and using the bicycle as a means of transport?
Can I apply the same recreational activity exception to my motorcycle riding since I only do so for relaxation and enjoyment in the outdoors, I might be on a road but to me I am recreating just like someone on a bicycle.
I don't necessarily believe that just because your on a bicycle that your automatically considered performing an outdoor recreation activity.
I am not just trying to be argumentative.
- A bicycle is defined as a vehicle in the RCW's.
- The consensus of those here believe that the in/on language of RCW 9.41.050(2)(a) CPL requirement applies to a motorcycle. (thus I would claim the same applies on a bicycle)
- Does riding a bicycle automatically mean that your performing an outdoor recreational activity. Even if your not doing it for relaxation or enjoyment but as a means to transport daily.
- The outdoor recreational activity is an exception, the onus is on the individual to claim the exception.
When giving advice, I would rather error on the side of caution. 99% of the time it may prove to be no issue or non-event. I sure don't want to tell someone they can go do something and they end up being the 1% with a LEO or prosecutor trying to push the limits and result in a test case.
As always, if you want a real legal opinion then consult with a real attorney because I am just some yoke on the internet (in Montana no less!).
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Freedom1Man
Regular Member
"The RCW’s apply to vehicles, motorcycles, and bicycles. Carrying a firearm on a motorcycle or
bicycle is the same as carrying a firearm in a vehicle. You will need a license to carry a
concealed weapon. "
He did not say that all carry on a bike (both types) was by default concealed. Just that if you carry concealed then you need a CPL.
That was not a rebuttal at all. Unless the AG has failed English lessons or is trying to deceive you by writing it the way it was written.
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
RCW 46.04.071
Bicycle.
"Bicycle" means every device propelled solely by human power upon which a person or persons may ride, having two tandem wheels either of which is sixteen inches or more in diameter, or three wheels, any one of which is more than twenty inches in diameter.
RCW 46.04.320
Motor vehicle.
"Motor vehicle" means every vehicle that is self-propelled and every vehicle that is propelled by electric power obtained from overhead trolley wires, but not operated upon rails. "Motor vehicle" includes a neighborhood electric vehicle as defined in RCW 46.04.357. "Motor vehicle" includes a medium-speed electric vehicle as defined in RCW 46.04.295. An electric personal assistive mobility device is not considered a motor vehicle. A power wheelchair is not considered a motor vehicle. A golf cart is not considered a motor vehicle, except for the purposes of chapter 46.61 RCW.
(No bicycle)
RCW 46.04.670
Vehicle.
"Vehicle" includes every device capable of being moved upon a public highway and in, upon, or by which any persons or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a public highway, including bicycles. "Vehicle" does not include power wheelchairs or devices other than bicycles moved by human or animal power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. Mopeds are not considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.70 RCW. Bicycles are not considered vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16A, or 46.70 RCW or RCW 82.12.045. Electric personal assistive mobility devices are not considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16A, 46.29, 46.37, or 46.70 RCW. A golf cart is not considered a vehicle, except for the purposes of chapter 46.61 RCW.
Bicycle.
"Bicycle" means every device propelled solely by human power upon which a person or persons may ride, having two tandem wheels either of which is sixteen inches or more in diameter, or three wheels, any one of which is more than twenty inches in diameter.
RCW 46.04.320
Motor vehicle.
"Motor vehicle" means every vehicle that is self-propelled and every vehicle that is propelled by electric power obtained from overhead trolley wires, but not operated upon rails. "Motor vehicle" includes a neighborhood electric vehicle as defined in RCW 46.04.357. "Motor vehicle" includes a medium-speed electric vehicle as defined in RCW 46.04.295. An electric personal assistive mobility device is not considered a motor vehicle. A power wheelchair is not considered a motor vehicle. A golf cart is not considered a motor vehicle, except for the purposes of chapter 46.61 RCW.
(No bicycle)
RCW 46.04.670
Vehicle.
"Vehicle" includes every device capable of being moved upon a public highway and in, upon, or by which any persons or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a public highway, including bicycles. "Vehicle" does not include power wheelchairs or devices other than bicycles moved by human or animal power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. Mopeds are not considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.70 RCW. Bicycles are not considered vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16A, or 46.70 RCW or RCW 82.12.045. Electric personal assistive mobility devices are not considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16A, 46.29, 46.37, or 46.70 RCW. A golf cart is not considered a vehicle, except for the purposes of chapter 46.61 RCW.
tombrewster421
Regular Member
Sorry to break it to you but the license is called "license to carry concealed pistol." That's what it's called. They were not stating the obvious that you need the license to do what it's named for. They said that carrying on a bike is the same as carrying in a car. All restrictions apply.
My personal opinion however is that unless you're riding indoors that it meets the exception in .060. No matter your reasons for riding it can still be because you want to for the exercise. Just like I open carry for more than political reasons. The obvious reason is for self defense just like the obvious reason for biking is for exercise.
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
I was re-quoting, not agreeing with the quote.
tombrewster421
Regular Member
Was it a quote from one of the other threads? It was not clear to me.
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
amlevin
Regular Member
Especially if you have the drivers license on your person.
hermannr
Regular Member
I added you original quote of a quote so I can reiterate what I said about RCW 9.41.060(8). There are a couple words that make a lot of difference "...SUCH AS...". Very obviously, the legislature did not want to make an exhaustive list of "outdoor recreational activities" they approved of, but only wanted to give examples.
This open ended language in WA law should be contrasted with Oregon's law: The equivalent Oregon exemption is at ORS 166.260(3) ...(b) Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going to or returning from a hunting or fishing expedition.
As you can see you must specifically have a valid Oregon hunting and/or fishing license and be going to/coming from/or participating in hunting or fishing.
ak56
Campaign Veteran
No, you would need to show him your walking license.
You do have a walking license, don't you?:lol: