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Oregon Zoo Letter

Lord Sega

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Warrenton, Oregon
Well, had a nice family vacation with my 2 girls (16 & 11) from 4-15 July driving around Oregon.
We went to: Oregon Zoo, OMSI, Skibowl, ran around north central Oregon rock hounding, and finished with Oaks Amusement Park.
Oaks Park security was friendly, but asked me to conceal or store in the car, since I was not going on rides there I CC'd.
At Skibowl I did go on the rides so I secured my firearm in the car prior to entering.
OMSI (private, non-profit), I CC'd there with no problems (the Mummies didn't even complain).

The Oregon Zoo was the only place that there were some issues, and I plan to send them the following letter.
P1020681.jpgP1020682.jpg
Please read & critique, let me know of any changes or re-wording you would suggest.
I will post any reply from the Oregon Zoo here.

----------

To: The Oregon Zoo Director
CC: Oregon Head of Security

From: Doug xxxxxxx

Re: Carry of firearms at the Oregon Zoo



First, let me say that my daughters and I thoroughly enjoyed our visit to the Oregon Zoo. Friday July 5th was a beautiful day, the facilities look top notch, and the animals were in great shape and fairly active until the heat of the day hit around lunchtime. It has been some time since I had visited and the Oregon Zoo is still as good as I remember it from my youth.

The reason for this letter is to help clarify the law regarding the carry of firearms at the Oregon Zoo. I have two concerns that I noticed from my visit that I would like to bring to your attention.

I carry a personal firearm everywhere I legally can for defense of my family, myself, and others. Note: I'm not an activist, just a believer in the US 2nd Amendment and the Oregon state Constitution. By choice I prefer to open carry (OC) instead of concealed carry (CC), but I do have an Oregon Concealed Handgun License (CHL). I just want to make sure that everyone is on the same page and to avoid anyone (myself included) getting arrested for misunderstood laws, rules, or regulations.

My first concern is the Zoo rules sign at the exterior ticket booth states that firearms (weapons) are not allowed except under ORS 166.173(2)(c) & ORS 166.370(3)(d). The wording of the sign is misleading in that it implies a CHL is required to carry at the Oregon Zoo, it is not. The Oregon Zoo is public property under Metro, a municipal corporation. As such, ORS 166.170 applies. Both loaded OC and CC are allowed under Oregon law with a CHL, but under Portland ordinance 14A.60.010, without a CHL the firearm must be unloaded.

After purchasing our tickets we proceeded to the interior entrance and handed over our tickets. At this point, I was asked to step to the side and await security since I was open carrying my firearm. Both the ticket person and the responding security person were polite, cordial, and did not escalate the situation, so I can see that staff & security have some training in dealing with firearm carriers.

My second concern is while talking with security there were three misconceptions:

1) Security asked to see my CHL, however a CHL is not required in Oregon to openly carry a firearm. But, since Portland has an unloaded firearm ordinance (14A.60.010, allowed under ORS 166.173) that a CHL exempts, and I was carrying loaded, I provided my CHL.

2) Security then stated that having a CHL required me to conceal my firearm, it does not. While having a CHL allows me the option to legally conceal, it is not a requirement.

3) Security stated that zoo regulations required me to conceal, however, as I stated to him, a zoo regulation does not override state law. Any zoo regulation restricting firearms, per ORS 166.170(2): “Ordinances that are contrary to this subsection are void.”

I would ask that you consider changing the misleading wording of the Zoo rules sign at the exterior ticket booth. I would humbly suggest:

“Under state & city law, lawful concealed carry and open carry of firearms are allowed on zoo premises.
Firearms must be unloaded unless in possession of an Oregon Concealed Handgun License (CHL).
Please keep all firearms holstered unless and until need arises”

OR, due to space constraints on the sign, simply:

“Legally carried weapons / firearms are allowed, per state law”

I would also suggest that your zoo security receive refresher training of Oregon state law & City of Portland ordinances for firearm carry. Again, both loaded OC and CC are allowed under Oregon law with a CHL, but under Portland ordinance 14A.60.010, without a CHL the firearm must be unloaded.

Again, there was minimal disruption of my family’s visit by zoo staff, and law enforcement was not called, I just wish to clarify some misconceptions by your security and to correct the misleading sign.


Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
Sincerely,

Doug xxxxxx


EDIT: response at #16 below
 
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thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
Yes, the letter is well written and concise. I wouldn't change a thing. I too am interested to see how this plays out.
 

Sethrotull

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Portland Oregon
I like your letter and think it is well written

But I feel it is a bit confusing and unnecessary.

I think the sign is fine maybe add the Portland ordinance in about unloaded OC.

The real focus should be on training their security properly.
 

Rebel

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
13
Location
Washington, Dry Side
As one who deals in a administrative world, I think this is very well written.
Polite, concise, direct, easy to understand.

If it were me, I might consider adding the relevant text of the ORC's after your signature.

This does two things:
it is a convenience to the reader;
it shows you know what they say (other than quoting some parts).

Well done.

Rebel Alliance
 

landon holt

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
14
Location
Oregon
This doc. is what I already send them a couple years ago. They have made progress, but not near enough. I don't see anywhere in the ORS's where they can allow carry but restrict the way you carry in any manor. I tried to copy and paste but my color edits would not save.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5z882b6gbvkecwt/OR State Preemption.doc

No where does it say you must CC if you have a CHL. In fact, it states plainly you can open carry anywhere with a CHL and you can carry CC'd.
 

Lord Sega

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Warrenton, Oregon
Update:
The letter was sent without changes this last Saturday.
I only found the director's e-mail on the Oregon Zoo's website, so I requested she forward to Zoo Head of Security.

The point I was trying to make about the sign is that it's wording (if you know the ORSs posted) is that it makes it sound like a CHL is required.
To someone unfamiliar with the ORSs (i.e. most of the public) would only see weapons not allowed, even with the "Please" at the start.

The ORSs on the sign only refer to the CHL exemption(s) of loaded firearms in public places and firearms in public buildings.
I feel this is deceptive or at least misleading to both firearm carriers and to the rest of the public.

We'll see if they agree or not, but I don't have very high hopes that they will adjust the sign accordingly.
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
Thanks for the update! Looking forward to hearing their response, if any. I applaud you for following up on your concerns!
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Interestingly, according to their signage (which we know is VOiD), they don't even want police officers carrying weapons in the zoo. Read the specific sections they've given. Their signage only recognizes CHL holders....... there's no lack of stupidity apparently.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Well, had a nice family vacation with my 2 girls (16 & 11) from 4-15 July driving around Oregon.
We went to: Oregon Zoo, OMSI, Skibowl, ran around north central Oregon rock hounding, and finished with Oaks Amusement Park.
Oaks Park security was friendly, but asked me to conceal or store in the car, since I was not going on rides there I CC'd.
At Skibowl I did go on the rides so I secured my firearm in the car prior to entering.
OMSI (private, non-profit), I CC'd there with no problems (the Mummies didn't even complain).

The Oregon Zoo was the only place that there were some issues, and I plan to send them the following letter.
View attachment 10640View attachment 10639
Please read & critique, let me know of any changes or re-wording you would suggest.
I will post any reply from the Oregon Zoo here.

----------

To: The Oregon Zoo Director
CC: Oregon Head of Security

From: Doug xxxxxxx

Re: Carry of firearms at the Oregon Zoo



First, let me say that my daughters and I thoroughly enjoyed our visit to the Oregon Zoo. Friday July 5th was a beautiful day, the facilities look top notch, and the animals were in great shape and fairly active until the heat of the day hit around lunchtime. It has been some time since I had visited and the Oregon Zoo is still as good as I remember it from my youth.

The reason for this letter is to help clarify the law regarding the carry of firearms at the Oregon Zoo. I have two concerns that I noticed from my visit that I would like to bring to your attention.

I carry a personal firearm everywhere I legally can for defense of my family, myself, and others. Note: I'm not an activist, just a believer in the US 2nd Amendment and the Oregon state Constitution. By choice I prefer to open carry (OC) instead of concealed carry (CC), but I do have an Oregon Concealed Handgun License (CHL). I just want to make sure that everyone is on the same page and to avoid anyone (myself included) getting arrested for misunderstood laws, rules, or regulations.

My first concern is the Zoo rules sign at the exterior ticket booth states that firearms (weapons) are not allowed except under ORS 166.173(2)(c) & ORS 166.370(3)(d). The wording of the sign is misleading in that it implies a CHL is required to carry at the Oregon Zoo, it is not. The Oregon Zoo is public property under Metro, a municipal corporation. As such, ORS 166.170 applies. Both loaded OC and CC are allowed under Oregon law with a CHL, but under Portland ordinance 14A.60.010, without a CHL the firearm must be unloaded.

After purchasing our tickets we proceeded to the interior entrance and handed over our tickets. At this point, I was asked to step to the side and await security since I was open carrying my firearm. Both the ticket person and the responding security person were polite, cordial, and did not escalate the situation, so I can see that staff & security have some training in dealing with firearm carriers.

My second concern is while talking with security there were three misconceptions:

1) Security asked to see my CHL, however a CHL is not required in Oregon to openly carry a firearm. But, since Portland has an unloaded firearm ordinance (14A.60.010, allowed under ORS 166.173) that a CHL exempts, and I was carrying loaded, I provided my CHL.

2) Security then stated that having a CHL required me to conceal my firearm, it does not. While having a CHL allows me the option to legally conceal, it is not a requirement.

3) Security stated that zoo regulations required me to conceal, however, as I stated to him, a zoo regulation does not override state law. Any zoo regulation restricting firearms, per ORS 166.170(2): “Ordinances that are contrary to this subsection are void.”

I would ask that you consider changing the misleading wording of the Zoo rules sign at the exterior ticket booth. I would humbly suggest:

“Under state & city law, lawful concealed carry and open carry of firearms are allowed on zoo premises.
Firearms must be unloaded unless in possession of an Oregon Concealed Handgun License (CHL).
Please keep all firearms holstered unless and until need arises”

OR, due to space constraints on the sign, simply:

“Legally carried weapons / firearms are allowed, per state law”

I would also suggest that your zoo security receive refresher training of Oregon state law & City of Portland ordinances for firearm carry. Again, both loaded OC and CC are allowed under Oregon law with a CHL, but under Portland ordinance 14A.60.010, without a CHL the firearm must be unloaded.

Again, there was minimal disruption of my family’s visit by zoo staff, and law enforcement was not called, I just wish to clarify some misconceptions by your security and to correct the misleading sign.


Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
Sincerely,

Doug xxxxxx

I find that the mention ORS 166.173 (2)(c) interesting. Maybe next time we am down visiting out daughter and grandkids we will have to make a trip to the Zoo. Like you, we haven't been there in ages.

Rather than make the point that as I am not in a "public building" and security is not LE, (as per ORS 166.360) I will not protest having to present my "License to carry a concealed weapon" (2)(c) but only need to have it available, I will just present my CPL, and see how that turns security's crank. My CPL is just as much a "license to carry a concealed weapon" as my CHL is... However, I cannot legally "Conceal" without a CHL so I would HAVE to OC. It will be interesting how they handle that one...:)
 
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Lord Sega

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Warrenton, Oregon
UPDATE, sort of...

Turns out the e-mail contact for the Director on the website is for the Director of the Oregon Zoo Foundation, not the Oregon Zoo (Operational) Director.
It has been forwarded, so still wait & see.


Dear Doug-

Thank you for your message about the firearm policies at the Oregon Zoo. I have forwarded your feedback to the zoo director and the deputy director of operations. As the director of the Oregon Zoo Foundation (the fundraising arm of the zoo), I do not have any ability to impact zoo policies or procedures.

Glad you and your daughters had a nice visit to the zoo.

All best,

Jani



Jani Iverson | Director


Edit add: Found the correct page (buried in website), Kim Smith is the Zoo Director, but no e-mail listed for contact
 
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Mattimusmaximus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
257
Location
Hillsboro
I OC there once and nobody said anything to me.. But then again it was pouring down rain an I was with a group of 6 and two little ones. I didn't even know they had that sign until you pointed it out :D lol


-Matt of Hillsboro OR-
 

Lord Sega

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Warrenton, Oregon
So-so responce...

Just over a week, not a bad response time considering I e-mailed the wrong Director (Foundation instead of Operations) and they forwarded it to the right people.

Here it is:

Greetings Mr. Xxxxxx,

We’re glad you enjoyed your visit to our Zoo. We hope you understand that we have a duty to assure that visitors attending our venue have a family friendly, safe and legal Zoo experience. Toward that end, we contact those we observe carrying firearms at the entrance, to confirm their legal ability to possess them while visiting the venue. Zoo Security does its best to make that determination with a minimum of disruption. We prefer that those with a valid CHL carry their firearms concealed, but that is not our legal requirement. I will follow up with our security team to correct any misconceptions that exist.

Best,

-Craig

Craig M. Stroud, CPA | Oregon Zoo

Deputy Director - Operations

503 220-2451

craig.stroud@oregonzoo.org


Well, what does the group think?
They are aware of Oregon law, freely admit that OC is legal, but prefer CC, and will speak with security to clear up misunderstandings about OC.
I don't have too much on an issue with a brief check-in with security at the entrance. Better than being trailed all over the zoo, and if they were unaware of the carrier then any calls from staff or other visitors doesn't take them by surprise causing a scramble alert.

Any follow-up required? Push harder or let it go?
I'm thinking let it go, they know the law and are doing refresher training with the security staff.

Thoughts?
 

Sethrotull

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Portland Oregon
I think them following up with security is great. I also feel the sign is reasonable. Yes they prefer CC but they know they can't require it. I would leave it alone unless security tried to tell me to CC again.
 

Historyman1942

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
55
Location
Salem, OR
They also can't force to show your CHL or detain you at any extent. Police can't even without RAS of a crime.

----- Sent from my mobile phone.
 

Sethrotull

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Portland Oregon
They also can't force to show your CHL or detain you at any extent. Police can't even without RAS of a crime.

----- Sent from my mobile phone.

Here is where I am a little unclear. Under 14A.60.010 you are not allowed to OC loaded without a CHL so wouldn't not knowing if the firearm was loaded or unloaded be RAS of a crime?
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Here is where I am a little unclear. Under 14A.60.010 you are not allowed to OC loaded without a CHL so wouldn't not knowing if the firearm was loaded or unloaded be RAS of a crime?
[strike]Nope, not at all any more than stopping a motorist because he might not have a license to drive.[/strike]

[strike]Actually not knowing proves that there is no RAS of a crime. Now if the gun is found as a result of a search related to another witnessed crime, that is another matter.[/strike]

Woops - I should read the staute first. There does not have to be RAS of a crime - a LEO has the right to stop you and check :(

D. It is unlawful for any person who possesses a firearm, clip or magazine in or upon a public place, or while in a vehicle in a public place, to refuse to permit a police officer to inspect that firearm after the police officer has identified him or herself as a police officer.
http://www.portlandonline.com/auditor/index.cfm?a=332592&c=28514
 
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