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Thread: WSJ Saturday Essay, 'Rise of the Warrior Cop' by Radley Balko. Makes the big time.

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    WSJ Saturday Essay, 'Rise of the Warrior Cop' by Radley Balko. Makes the big time.

    Paragraph 26 of 30.

    "If you browse online police discussion boards, or chat with younger cops today, you will often encounter some version of the phrase, "Whatever I need to do to get home safe." It is a sentiment that suggests that every interaction with a citizen may be the officer's last. Nor does it help when political leaders lend support to this militaristic self-image, as New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg did in 2011 by declaring, "I have my own army in the NYPD—the seventh largest army in the world."[Nightmarish emphasis]

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories

    Matt Drudge put this story adjacent
    http://www.infowars.com/florida-nurs...y-us-marshals/

    I'd say that InfoWars/PrisonPlanet have some credibility beyond the accusations here of CT.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-20-2013 at 05:47 PM.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Paragraph 26 of 30.

    "If you browse online police discussion boards, or chat with younger cops today, you will often encounter some version of the phrase, "Whatever I need to do to get home safe." It is a sentiment that suggests that every interaction with a citizen may be the officer's last. Nor does it help when political leaders lend support to this militaristic self-image, as New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg did in 2011 by declaring, "I have my own army in the NYPD—the seventh largest army in the world."[Nightmarish emphasis]

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories

    Matt Drudge put this story adjacent
    http://www.infowars.com/florida-nurs...y-us-marshals/

    I'd say that InfoWars/PrisonPlanet have some credibility beyond the accusations here of CT.
    Not a good thing. Our law enforcement agencies are spinning out of control, and they need to be reigned-in, by the leaders of the state and federal governments. The Congress needs to calm down the DOJ and DHS, and the individual state legislatures need to re-assert the rights of their citizens. Officers of the law are in that job because they asked to be, they were not drafted. There are obvious risks involved when you choose to wear a badge and gun, and you can expect to spend at least some of your time dealing with low-life scumbags. Police must have reliable intel available so they may be able to evaluate each situation, and determine which kind of person they are dealing with and what tactics may be ultimately necessary to "control the situation". There's no need for a battering ram and flash-bang grenades to gain entry to a day-school, and there's no need for a polite knock on the door and an announcement if they are certain they are dealing with a group of armed gangsters. Common sense should be the rule, but Will Rogers explained common sense for everybody. My 2¢ worth. Pax...
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    Not as many risks as folks think. Being a police officer is not that dangerous. It is more dangerous to be a farmer or to man a fishing boat, among many others.

    So, between the voluntarist nature of the job and the relative safety of it, I expect officers not to violate my rights in some perceived effort to go home at night.

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    What seems to be missing in this well-written article is any indication of repercussions for the illegal -- meaning forced entry without a warrant, RAS or PC -- actions cited. Short of a lawsuit filed by the aggrieved citizen, who is monitoring the police? Federal agencies are watched by GAO and the various agency IGs. Who is supposed to be watching the police and bringing actions for these illegal acts?

    Think about the aftermath of the Boston bombings and the search for the perps -- forced entry at gunpoint without warrants into hundreds of homes by "paramilitary" police. How far can "exigent" circumstances justify the breach of Constitutional rights?

    "Do whatever it takes to go home at night?" Don't police officers take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution? Shouldn't even rookie officers need assurance that the orders being given are lawful? That there is a warrant signed by a judge? The Nuremberg trials forever quashed the "only following orders" defense. Our society needs to return to the rule of law, and those charged with protecting us should be the exemplar for that.

    As for the basis of the article, there certainly needs to be a critical examination of the need for and use of excessive force in most situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Not as many risks as folks think. Being a police officer is not that dangerous. It is more dangerous to be a farmer or to man a fishing boat, among many others.

    So, between the voluntarist nature of the job and the relative safety of it, I expect officers not to violate my rights in some perceived effort to go home at night.
    Farmers and commercial fishermen are placed in danger only if they are careless. A farmer crushed beneath his tractor invariably did something wrong. A "man overboard" could have remained a man on-board (or, at least, not lost at sea) had he properly tethered himself to the boat in heavy seas. The "Children of the Corn" are not real, and neither is "Jaws". People pilfering crops are rarely armed, and the denizens of the deep are known to be primarily pacifists. There have been no reported sightings of roving gangs of sea bass armed with AK-47s. There are few willful acts, intended to create great bodily harm - or death - perpetrated against farmers and fishermen. They are injured or killed due to their own negligence, not the intent of others. From the FBI 2012 police stats page:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012CopStats.jpg 
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ID:	10648

    Granted, some police officers are also injured and/or killed due to negligence/complacency. Negligence is usually found in the inexperienced rookie, and complacency tends to be found in experienced officers who have "been on the job for 15 (or whatever number) years and I've never even had to draw my sidearm." Regardless, SWAT interventions are probably unnecessary 75% of the time they are called out, but they are excused by officials because "they needed the action to keep them sharp." I'm certain that your expectation of not having your rights violated by the police, are shared by all LAC's. Those who are habitually not LAC's have no such expectations, based upon prior interactions with LEO's. Unfortunately, the LAC is frequently disappointed because his/her expectations are not met, and the other group is not the least-bit surprised. Another 2¢ goes into the pot. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 07-21-2013 at 02:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Farmers and commercial fishermen are placed in danger only if they are careless. A farmer crushed beneath his tractor invariably did something wrong. A "man overboard" could have remained a man on-board (or, at least, not lost at sea) had he properly tethered himself to the boat in heavy seas. The "Children of the Corn" are not real, and neither is "Jaws". People pilfering crops are rarely armed, and the denizens of the deep are known to be primarily pacifists. There have been no reported sightings of roving gangs of sea bass armed with AK-47s. There are few willful acts, intended to create great bodily harm - or death - perpetrated against farmers and fishermen. They are injured or killed due to their own negligence, not the intent of others. From the FBI 2012 police stats page:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012CopStats.jpg 
Views:	622 
Size:	44.8 KB 
ID:	10648

    Granted, some police officers are also injured and/or killed due to negligence/complacency. Negligence is usually found in the inexperienced rookie, and complacency tends to be found in experienced officers who have "been on the job for 15 (or whatever number) years and I've never even had to draw my sidearm." Regardless, SWAT interventions are probably unnecessary 75% of the time they are called out, but they are excused by officials because "they needed the action to keep them sharp." I'm certain that your expectation of not having your rights violated by the police, are shared by all LAC's. Those who are habitually not LAC's have no such expectations, based upon prior interactions with LEO's. Unfortunately, the LAC is frequently disappointed because his/her expectations are not met, and the other group is not the least-bit surprised. Another 2¢ goes into the pot. Pax...

    Unfortunately, the guy killed by his tractor was likely not killed due to his own actions but likely due to another. Facts is facts ... death rates for police, as a profession, are very low. So, the laws of probability take over -- it does not matter if you are killed by a bullet or by drowning ~ you are still d-e-a-d.

    I laugh when the FOP calls up and asks for donations to honor the fallen .... I ask them for a donation back because my profession is abotu 10x more dangerous than a cop's is....

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I laugh when the FOP calls up and asks for donations to honor the fallen .... I ask them for a donation back because my profession is abotu 10x more dangerous than a cop's is....
    Let me make certain I understand this... in your profession over 5,430 people are feloniously murdered annually because of the job they hold? If you're an attorney or a politician, it's a good beginning anyway. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 07-21-2013 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Typo...
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    WSJ Saturday Essay, 'Rise of the Warrior Cop' by Radley Balko. Makes the big ti

    Do you have a cite for that stat?

    I have a cite from a site that says fewer than 20,000 officers have been killed in the entire history of the US since 1791:

    http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-...data/year.html


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    Last edited by eye95; 07-21-2013 at 03:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Let me make certain I understand this... in your profession over 5,430 people are feloniously murdered annually because of the job they hold? If you're an attorney or a politician, it's a good beginning anyway. Pax...
    Dangerous does not equal "felonious murder"...it means DANGEROUS (risk amount). Recommend watching "Lost in Space".

    As I said, dead is dead. Doesn't matter if its a bullet to the head.

    And, with my state police ... 1/2 have been shot to death by other cops as by regular folks...when I bring this up at hearings when they start yammering on about how much they are heroes, all I get are nasty looks back.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-21-2013 at 06:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Do you have a cite for that stat?

    I have a cite from a site that says fewer than 20,000 officers have been killed in the entire history of the US since 1791:

    http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-...data/year.html


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    Read the post, the "cite" is there. Pax...
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    WSJ Saturday Essay, 'Rise of the Warrior Cop' by Radley Balko. Makes the big ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Read the post, the "cite" is there. Pax...
    I see no cite in the post I followed for 5430 of anybody being killed in one year.

    Let's be clear: Where did you get the number 5430 from? 5430 what?

    Unless you can answer these questions, I am calling BS on whatever you are trying to say.


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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Dangerous does not equal "felonious murder"...it means DANGEROUS (risk amount). Recommend watching "Lost in Space".

    As I said, dead is dead. Doesn't matter if its a bullet to the head.

    And, with my state police ... 1/2 have been shot to death by other cops as by regular folks...when I bring this up at hearings when they start yammering on about how much they are heroes, all I get are nasty looks back.
    "Dangerous" does not equal "deadly intent" either. A meat cutter at your local market has a "dangerous" job, but a round roast is not liable to attack and kill him. I am not trying to make "heroes" out of LEO's... my point is, that very few other occupations - as do LEO's - have the innate potential for confronting people who harbor murderous intent. The stats only really count if you, personally, are included among them. If you are one of the 543 killed in the LOD, your day has been totally ruined. Pax...
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I see no cite in the post I followed for 5430 of anybody being killed in one year.

    Let's be clear: Where did you get the number 5430 from? 5430 what?

    Unless you can answer these questions, I am calling BS on whatever you are trying to say.


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    Good that you clarified your question. There is no "cite" for the number "5430". It is a multiple of 10 (from the FBI stat of 543 LEO's killed in LOD), provided in response to davidmcbeth's claim that
    ...my profession is abotu 10x more dangerous than a cop's is....
    Pax...
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    "Dangerous" does not equal "deadly intent" either. A meat cutter at your local market has a "dangerous" job, but a round roast is not liable to attack and kill him. I am not trying to make "heroes" out of LEO's... my point is, that very few other occupations - as do LEO's - have the innate potential for confronting people who harbor murderous intent. The stats only really count if you, personally, are included among them. If you are one of the 543 killed in the LOD, your day has been totally ruined. Recommend you return from being Lost in Space. Dead is dead - what an astute observation (I must make a note of that FFR). Pax...
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    OK, where did you get the number 543?

    Again, the site I found doesn't have 543 cops killed in any year. Nowhere near.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    OK, where did you get the number 543?

    Again, the site I found doesn't have 543 cops killed in any year. Nowhere near.
    I am not responsible for the site you found. And - again - as I said in the 11:48am post, "From the FBI 2012 police stats page:" right above their graphic. Pax...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    I am not responsible for the site you found. And - again - as I said in the 11:48am post, "From the FBI 2012 police stats page:" right above their graphic. Pax...
    It does not say that they were killed in one year. Do you have something that says that that many officers were killed in one year? What you have there is likely the number for a three- to four- year period, probably more if you are only counting felonious killings. A lot of officers die in TAs.

    The deaths (for all reasons) of cops over the last ten years have ranged between 120 and 191 per year.

    So, again, you have cited nothing that supports 534 officers being killed in one year. If the number is only coming from the graphic that you posted, it is not saying what you claim it is saying.

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    A geographical context is missing in the WSJ article.

    http://www.odmp.org/search/year/2013?ref=sidebar

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    Good link. 2013 deaths are low, but not out of line with prior years, currently sitting at 55. With the most generous reading, about half of the deaths would be felonious, half not.

    Curiously, though, look at the top three States for officer deaths. Do you notice something about them? Not saying that there is anything causal here, but it should make you say, "hmmm...."

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    535 killed due to gunfire between 2012 and 2003. Accidental gunfire are a separate stat. 1610 killed in the same time period from all causes. Feds and correction/parole officers are included. Since 1980 an average of 174 per year killed , with a average of 66 per year from gunfire.

    Interesting stat, average age of a officer killed while on duty is ~ 40, average years on the job ~12.

    What is the average age of a thug cop/number of years on the job? What is the average age/number of years on the job of a rights respecting-ish cop?

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It does not say that they were killed in one year. Do you have something that says that that many officers were killed in one year? What you have there is likely the number for a three- to four- year period, probably more if you are only counting felonious killings. A lot of officers die in TAs.
    Inasmuch as it was posted on their 2102 Statistics page, and there was nothing indicating that the stats were all-inclusive since the crucifixion of Christ, I accepted that it was reporting only the year 2012 (although I did have some questions about over a half-million being assaulted in one year). Perhaps my assumption was wrong, but if so, it was based upon seriously misleading information.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    So, again, you have cited nothing that supports 534 officers being killed in one year. If the number is only coming from the graphic that you posted, it is not saying what you claim it is saying.
    Nor does the graphic NOT not say what I claimed, when looked at objectively. The numbers are there - I didn't invent them. File your complaint with the FBI. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 07-22-2013 at 06:15 PM. Reason: Close quote
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    I just want to make sure that folks know that nowhere near 534 cops are being killed in any given year, feloniously, accidentally, suicidally, or otherwise.

    The typical number of all cops killed, regardless of cause or nefariousness, is about 200 a year.

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