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Thread: STILL no RKBA in IL - any challenges from RKBA groups?

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    STILL no RKBA in IL - any challenges from RKBA groups?

    Despite the costly, greatly limited, and time-consuming privilege recently and graciously granted by IL legislators , neither now nor when the privilege cards are issued will IL residents have a RIGHT to keep and bear arms.

    Is anyone aware of any planned efforts to challenge the legislators actions as STILL not being in line with the recent court decision?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Despite the costly, greatly limited, and time-consuming privilege recently and graciously granted by IL legislators , neither now nor when the privilege cards are issued will IL residents have a RIGHT to keep and bear arms.

    Is anyone aware of any planned efforts to challenge the legislators actions as STILL not being in line with the recent court decision?
    Well, the Shepard case is doing something but I don't think that this case will go forward any further ~ we'll see.

    As to other actions, I don't know of any ... likely because when a new action would be decided, the case would be moot?

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    C'mon folks! Give us a little time! We just got our foot in the door of one of the most dictocratic "blue" states.

    We can probably all agree that this law is a P.o.S., but it IS a start. Considering how long Illinois (and especially Shicago!) has been blocking this, it will take some time, careful, responsible people, and damn few mistakes of ANY kind to change public perception.

    Granted, it's not so bad downstate, except in East St. Louis and St. Clair county, but Springfield and parts northeast of there need convincing.

    Give us time - we've just begun.
    Not to denigrate your accomplishment - I'm happy that you've accomplished something, but that's not my point, or my question.

    My point is that you've now got a privilege - not a right - which is what I understand the court to have said was denied.

    So my question stands: is anyone aware of any planned efforts to challenge the legislators actions as STILL not being in line with the recent court decision?
    Last edited by BB62; 07-24-2013 at 02:33 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Hey I'm happy that you've accomplished something, but that's not my point, or my question. My point is that you've now got a privilege - not a right - which is what I understand the court to have said was denied.

    So my question stands: is anyone aware of any planned efforts to challenge the legislators actions as STILL not being in line with the recent court decision?
    It's Illinois.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Not to denigrate your accomplishment - I'm happy that you've accomplished something, but that's not my point, or my question.

    My point is that you've now got a privilege - not a right - which is what I understand the court to have said was denied.

    So my question stands: is anyone aware of any planned efforts to challenge the legislators actions as STILL not being in line with the recent court decision?
    The courthouse is that-a-way my friend....

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    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...ealed-weapons/

    But Stiehl’s 10-page ruling agreed with the position of Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan’s office: Challenging the legality of the span state police have to set up the program would require Shepard and the state rifle group to file a new complaint spelling out why such a wait is onerous or illegal.


    Told ya ... read the Shepard complaint and you would have to agree ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Told ya ... read the Shepard complaint and you would have to agree ..
    I'm not in disagreement with you, but I'm having one hell of a time finding the actual ruling. Would someone please provide a link or quote it?

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    STILL no RKBA in IL - any challenges from RKBA groups?

    Mary Shepard and ISRA have filed an for an emergency injunction against enforcement of UUW laws pending the appeal with the 7th Circuit Court of appeals. Also action to expedite.

    They request the orders given the district court by the 7th Circuit be entered as ordered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    Mary Shepard and ISRA have filed an for an emergency injunction against enforcement of UUW laws pending the appeal with the 7th Circuit Court of appeals. Also action to expedite.

    They request the orders given the district court by the 7th Circuit be entered as ordered.
    What's a UUW law?

    Back to my original question: despite the costly, greatly limited, and time-consuming privilege recently and graciously granted by IL legislators , neither now nor when the privilege cards are issued will IL residents have a RIGHT to keep and bear arms.

    Is anyone aware of any planned efforts to challenge the legislators actions as STILL not being in line with the court decision re: the Second Amendment still doesn't apply to IL?

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    STILL no RKBA in IL - any challenges from RKBA groups?

    UUW Unlawful use of a weapon and AGG UUW, Aggravated.

    And Illinois has now passed "Privilege to Carry" not Right to Carry. We have a long way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    Mary Shepard and ISRA have filed an for an emergency injunction against enforcement of UUW laws pending the appeal with the 7th Circuit Court of appeals. Also action to expedite.

    They request the orders given the district court by the 7th Circuit be entered as ordered.
    Any way we can see exactly what was filed? I'm looking for motions verbatim for what was filed. My Google-fu isn't working when it comes to this. It's quite frustrating.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    ...And Illinois has now passed "Privilege to Carry" not Right to Carry...
    Hence my previous statement "...neither now nor when the privilege cards are issued will IL residents have a RIGHT to keep and bear arms" and my (still unanswered) question.

    Thanks for the meaning of UUW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkshadow62988 View Post
    Any way we can see exactly what was filed? I'm looking for motions verbatim for what was filed. My Google-fu isn't working when it comes to this. It's quite frustrating.
    Google-fu is of little help with pacer docs (unless someone goes to the courthouse it was filed in and downloads it from the PC terminal, which I have done before - usb into PC and save to it). The feds make it a pain to get records..and Pacer? Who wants to pay? Not me!

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    STILL no RKBA in IL - any challenges from RKBA groups?


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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wowwie!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    I ALWAYS test my links before I post them...

    Your link, is a link, to this very post! OOps!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    That was a bit of a long read(who am I kidding, that was a picture book compared to the FCCA), but it was well worth it. I'm anxious to see the court and state's replies.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    STILL no RKBA in IL - any challenges from RKBA groups?

    Motion for Emergency injunction: DENIED!

    Motion to expedite: GRANTED!

    Brief deadline Aug 18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    I ALWAYS test my links before I post them...

    Your link, is a link, to this very post! OOps!
    Lockman attached a .pdf file to his post. This is a link. When you click on it, you should see his post, but somewhere on your browser screen, probably at the bottom, will be a popup window, asking if you want to open or save the attachment.
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    Re: STILL no RKBA in IL - any challenges from RKBA groups?

    Personally I think there is a short window to argue that open carry is a right denied in Illinois regardless of how long the CCL delays the limited concealed permission slips. The 7th CA decision said the old AUUW law was unconstitutional because it denied any method of carry, not concealed carry.

    Not that the NRA, ISRA, or " The website that shall not be named " would ever support open carry.

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    Last edited by kurt555gs; 08-02-2013 at 11:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    Personally I think there is a short window to argue that open carry is a right denied in Illinois regardless of how long the CCL delays the limited concealed permission slips. The 7th CA decision said the old AUUW law was unconstitutional because it denied any method of carry, not concealed carry...

    ...Soylent Green is made out of people.
    Why a "short window"? The time frame I'm seeing is NEVER - not now and not when the permission slips are issued.

    You don't need a permission slip to exercise a right, and even when the permission slips are finally issued there STILL will be no RKBA in Illinois.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Why a "short window"? The time frame I'm seeing is NEVER - not now and not when the permission slips are issued.

    You don't need a permission slip to exercise a right, and even when the permission slips are finally issued there STILL will be no RKBA in Illinois.
    Then what are you waiting for? Start carrying today...suggest you seek out legal advice from attny (disclaimer!)

    I carried in IL ... nothing ever happened to me .. the DA would not seek out convictions where I lived.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Just like NC(State V Kerner) it will take a court ruling in Illinois for there to be state wide OC. The lobbyists have a vested interest in pay for carry schemes that they will never let go of. The only way Il will relent is kicking and screaming, because it seems the gun owning public will not hold the lobbyists accountable.

    Somebody will have to put their foot in the hot water to ever solve this problem.
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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    In our laws here in Colorado, we have this unique observation:

    (d) There exists a widespread inconsistency among jurisdictions within the state with regard to firearms regulations;

    (e) This inconsistency among local government laws regulating lawful firearm possession and ownership has extraterritorial impact on state citizens and the general public by subjecting them to criminal and civil penalties in some jurisdictions for conduct wholly lawful in other jurisdictions;

    (f) Inconsistency among local governments of laws regulating the possession and ownership of firearms results in persons being treated differently under the law solely on the basis of where they reside, and a person's residence in a particular county or city or city and county is not a rational classification when it is the basis for denial of equal treatment under the law;
    -----------------------

    Now the reason I am posting this bit of verbage is because I was born and raised in Illinois. I left Illinois for the wider, more friendly territory of Colorado. Yet, I still have a home in Illinois, and would one day love to visit the homestead that I own, but feel am required to surrender my Constitutional and God given right to self defense in order to do so.

    Imagine if you will, my typical day. I get up, maybe shower and shave (save optional) and pull on a pair of jeans, a shirt to match my sentiment for the day, don my footwear (either sneakers or western boots) and holster the firearm on my hip. Following any breakfast that may present itself, I'll head out onto the streets of our city and go where I want, do as I please, and mind my own business... all with my firearm secured on my hip. Maybe I have breakfast at the Dennys up the road, or the Village Inn to the west. Perhaps I need to visit the bank and do some transactions. Yeah, we can walk into the bank armed and nobody has a melt down over it. Maybe I visit the WallyWorld nearby, or visit the offices of a few attorneys around town. Perhaps I might trundle myself off to Barnes and Noble to fetch home some reading material. Maybe drop by Mickey-D's for lunch. I might conceal carry, but that's seldom these days, despite having a permission slip. I go where I will, carry as I please, and nobody gives me grief. Nor do they abuse others who exercise their rights under the 2nd Amendment. Every once in awhile, somebody will run crosswise of an LEO, but that's an abberation, certainly not the rule.

    Then I contemplate visiting the homestead, which I'd dearly love to do. Can't carry despite a permission slip from Colorado, because Illinois won't recognize that. CAn't carry open even with a permission slip from here, nor a non-resident version from Illinois. Even when travelling through in the car, I'd have to conceal it.

    Seems that just ain't right.

    So I cannot expect to enjoy the rights guaranteed by the Constitution because conduct wholly lawful in my jurisdiction (Colorado) is nearly totally outlawed in another (Illinois). Doesn't look like Illinois will have a scheme of statewide preemption either, so you end up with a patchwork quilt of different laws across a staggering variety of jurisdictions. How is anybody supposed to abide by that maze of legalistic legerdemain? Hence, there is no real equal treatment under law as required by the U.S. Constitution. Then again, there is no inherent RKBA either.

    So, until this gets sorted out, I remain an exile... a prodigal that cannot return without relinquishing my rights as an American citizen. That just ain't right.
    Do I cease to be an American by crossing the state line into Illinois? Must I surrender my birthright as an American to visit my homestead?

    I know all this will get sorted out eventually... but I'm 64 years old now, and it really ain't a matter of patience. It's about whether I'll ever again see the house of my youth. Until then, I'm effectively victimized by what might be considred "constructive evicition" from the house I own!

    Really?
    My opinion, and yours may vary... That ain't right!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 08-27-2013 at 03:54 AM.

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    Re: STILL no RKBA in IL - any challenges from RKBA groups?

    +1 M-T

    Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard.

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    Fancy seeing you all the way over here!

    M-T,

    Fancy running into you over here; I've been watching the goings on in Illinois because I travel to and through it periodically.

    Illinois is better off than us people in Colorado in one minor (but irksome) respect: They did preempt every local law on what sort of pistol you could own and replaced them with, as near as I can tell, nothing. As I understand it, for handguns there is no magazine capacity limit, I could legally purchase replacement mags for my CZ-75 (16 round capacity, just barely evil!) in Illinois but can no longer do so in Colorado (in fact I am wondering if anyone will ever again sell the handgun in Colorado--I guess that depends on whether CZ is willing/able to ship them with hobbled magazines).

    You just can't carry the damn thing outside your home. With some work, though, I believe that I was able to legally have it with me in my hotel room on my recent trip.

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