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Thread: Priorities.....and sheeple

  1. #1
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Priorities.....and sheeple

    Got a call today from my mom that she was involved in a car accident on Route 95. I jumped into the "Proactivemobile" and raced down there. She's fine, car's banged up. Seems that a young girl in a borrowed BMW decided to play a little game of "Oh ****, there's my exit" and crashed into the side of mom's car.

    I was OC'ing but didn't want it to be an issue, so I locked my gun in the truck on the shoulder and went to check on my mom. The young girl who hit her walked over to the Trooper and said something.....

    The Trooper comes up as I'm assessing damage and he says "Someone said that your vehicle says that you specialize in concealed carry permits. You don't have anything on you now, do you?"

    My first thought - "Isn't there something more important here that we're dealing with?"
    My second thought - "You know that's none of your damn business, right?"

    What I said - "No, I locked it in my truck"

    If the sheeple would worry about their damn driving, and not what the rest of the law abiding world is doing, we'd all be better off.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    I think you were part of the sheeple here ... but I understand why you cow-towed ...

    Happy motoring !

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Discretion may be the better part of valor, but ....

    FOIA to find out who "someone" was and exactly what they said. Also to find out how the Trooper reported that part of the accident investigation.

    Public announcement for anybody else finding themself in a similar situation: peter nap and I will be offering our highly honed diplomatic skills to deal with The Authorities when this sort of squirrel scat comes up. Reasonable rates.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    First, I'm glad your mother is OK. The car can be fixed!

    Second, as I've said before, they aren't all bad but they sure aren't all good. The girl needs to concern herself with the damage she caused both to your mother's car but also to the borrowed vehicle.

    The Trooper needs to mind his own business.

    After I left Grapeshot today I stopped at WaWa for coffee. A Trooper I didn't know was there and didn't say anything but sat in the parking lot watching me until I got tired of it and started taking his picture. He left then.

    I suppose it was a slow ticket day.

    Again, give your mother my sympathy for the car and thanks she wasn't hurt.

  5. #5
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for the well wishes. Mom is fine and the other driver's insurance company has already taken full blame for their driver's actions.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Troopers sure are an itchy bunch when they feel they no longer have the upper hand.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defrock View Post
    Troopers sure are an itchy bunch when they feel they no longer have the upper hand.
    Not all of them. A lot depends on were they come from.

    I see several every day. One is a decent fellow. He and I discuss BIG guns (He's a collector). One is a jerk from NOVA and just refuses to look at me now and the other is professional and minds his own business.

    I went through a check point a few years ago and handed the Trooper my license. When I did I told him I had a 44 magnum which was sitting on the dashboard in front of him. He said, I see...how do you like it?

    None of them have the upper hand with me and they know it.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    I just wanted to weigh in with my experiences with VA state troopers:

    I stopped to change a lady's flat tire once (she happened to own a fancy restaurant in Norfolk, and gave me and the wifey a free meal!) a ST pulled up to help us, and never said anything about my carry.

    I also was involved in a HnR on 264 not too long ago, and I was pulled over on the side of the road waiting for the ST. He had me get out of my car out of the passenger side (he obviously could see my glock, but said nothing).

    One bad apple spoils the bunch I suppose...
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Proshooter, very glad your mom is okay AND the insurance company is not giving you guys any problems; two potential nightmares have been avoided.

    Too keep the thread going, just wondering what the Trooper's likely response would have been if Proshooter had said what he had said what he been thinking. Has anybody had a similar situation but reacted differently to the officer's question?

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arma1911 View Post
    Proshooter, very glad your mom is okay AND the insurance company is not giving you guys any problems; two potential nightmares have been avoided.

    Too keep the thread going, just wondering what the Trooper's likely response would have been if Proshooter had said what he had said what he been thinking. Has anybody had a similar situation but reacted differently to the officer's question?
    Not under the same type of circumstances and it wouldn't matter anyway. There is a reason the response to my comment about being a diplomat and icon of tolerance was a ROFL smiley

    FWIW, I happen to think Proshooter did the right thing. There was no danger there and there are times when we need to adjust our principals to the conditions.

    The Girl was out of line and I imagine if Proshooter had been carrying, the Trooper would have just said something about leaving it in the holster....There were just more important things to tend to right then.

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    I also am glad your Mom is okay...,

    you just better hope that the BMW and/or that girl isn't somehow connected to a certain Nathan Lync..., er, uh, Goodwyn, known to frequent these parts, or you just might find that your Mom was driving aggressively, blocking the young lady from turning, kept driving in the young lady's blind spot, trying to "ZOOM" by/cut her off, the young lady could "feel" you and your Mom "glaring" at her through your sunglasses, and get a late night visit with complimentary ride to the Henrico Hilton for a quick photo shoot because you were "brandishing", and scaring the poor young girl to death. I guess you and your Mom should be grateful that the young lady actually allowed/let you continue on/drive away after the incident/confrontation.

    OK, rant mode off now, again, very glad your Mom is Okay and hope she will be properly compensated without a whole lot of "back and forth", I see the maneuver you described plenty, and wonder why people can't just go to the next exit and turn around instead of jamming up everyone else behind you regardless of the danger. Then again, I know plenty of folks that couldn't/can't find North after you show them which way South, East and West are.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
    Last edited by sidestreet; 07-25-2013 at 01:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    I just wanted to weigh in with my experiences with VA state troopers:

    I stopped to change a lady's flat tire once (she happened to own a fancy restaurant in Norfolk, and gave me and the wifey a free meal!) a ST pulled up to help us, and never said anything about my carry.

    I also was involved in a HnR on 264 not too long ago, and I was pulled over on the side of the road waiting for the ST. He had me get out of my car out of the passenger side (he obviously could see my glock, but said nothing).

    One bad apple spoils the bunch I suppose...
    Well that's how police should behave, like your contacts have been. When you meet one that behaves irrationally, is a citizen doomed to just listen to him without considering his own safety? Now, if it were dogs .....
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-25-2013 at 01:48 PM.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    For better or worse, once I filtered out the first three responses that would not have gone over very well, I would have said, "Oh yeah I forgot to arm up when I left the house. Thanks for the reminder." And then go do it.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    For better or worse, once I filtered out the first three responses that would not have gone over very well, I would have said, "Oh yeah I forgot to arm up when I left the house. Thanks for the reminder." And then go do it.
    I would not add .. "dang, my five year old probably got it and is playing cops and robbers ... he plays robber usually"

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    For better or worse, once I filtered out the first three responses that would not have gone over very well, I would have said, "Oh yeah I forgot to arm up when I left the house. Thanks for the reminder." And then go do it.
    Well, it could have been worse:

    Rutherford Institute Condemns Police ‘Safety’ Checkpoints as Unconstitutional, Calls for Balance in Police-Citizen Dynamic
    John W. Whitehead, president of The Rutherford Institute, is calling on the Albemarle County Board of Supervisors to review a July 11th incident in which county police shut down access to a quiet suburban subdivision in order to conduct a three-hour “safety” check in the middle of a summer afternoon. More than 262 people were stopped and forced to show identification and, in some cases, registration in order to enter or exit the subdivision, which is neither crime-ridden nor heavily traveled. One resident who objected to being detained at the checkpoint, citing his Fourth Amendment right to be free from such searches and seizures in the absence of probable cause, was allegedly subjected to shouts and threats by police to smash his car window and have him arrested.
    Remember, it's for our own good. Sheeple.

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    Only one citizen out of 262 detainees complained. Hence the problem. Most people give up there rights for some bogus term called" public safety"

    Surrendering rights for some public safety... SHEEPLE

    CCJ

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Got a call today from my mom that she was involved in a car accident on Route 95. I jumped into the "Proactivemobile" and raced down there. She's fine, car's banged up. Seems that a young girl in a borrowed BMW decided to play a little game of "Oh ****, there's my exit" and crashed into the side of mom's car.

    I was OC'ing but didn't want it to be an issue, so I locked my gun in the truck on the shoulder and went to check on my mom. The young girl who hit her walked over to the Trooper and said something.....

    The Trooper comes up as I'm assessing damage and he says "Someone said that your vehicle says that you specialize in concealed carry permits. You don't have anything on you now, do you?"

    My first thought - "Isn't there something more important here that we're dealing with?"
    My second thought - "You know that's none of your damn business, right?"

    What I said - "No, I locked it in my truck"

    If the sheeple would worry about their damn driving, and not what the rest of the law abiding world is doing, we'd all be better off.
    Why did you say anything? You were on foot, correct?

    Seriously, WHY DID YOU REPLY? I would like to know. I'm surprise that you of all people do not know the law, and that is to present your PERMIT and your license on demand. There's no law that says you have to answer questions about a firearm. AND you only have to present your permit if you are armed.

    You're teaching the Trooper to behave unlawfully, putting the rest of the carriers at risk for bullying. It's disgusting. Note I'm not saying reply with a snarky comment.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 07-25-2013 at 09:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Why did you say anything? You were on foot, correct?

    Seriously, WHY DID YOU REPLY? I would like to know.
    Cause people like to tell their story ....

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ProShooter - the day ended well and that is what counts in this case.

    I don't care how you got from A to B - that was your call and no one else's.

    Those that don't know you and snipe assume too much - they don't know the rest of the story.

    Yesterday with Peter Nap (doing what we were doing) a SUV next to us decided that he wanted the lane we were occupying. Only my highly honed ninja reflexes permitted me to execute a 4 wheel pirouette avoiding a vulgar mating of our vehicles' opposite sides.

    Afterward, the other driver wouldn't even look at me.......which is exactly what caused the problem in the first place....oh well.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    To those that think PRO did a "wrong" thing by answering.....You weren't there. To say he knows the laws, and how to carry, and what not to say is an understatement....Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. He is as pro rights, and exercises them as much as most anyone on this forum...Teaches others about it for goodness sakes. Anyone who carries regualrly knows, and we have talked about times when it's best to just move on becasue there are bigger things in life at that moment. I.E. out with just your 4 year old, and a cop gets a little nosy. Play along for a few to get away, and not risk having a grandson being picked up by the "Human(e) society"...Sometimes it's easier to just say "shopping with my grandson", then "I don't talk to cops"...YMMV...Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do....A man has to know his limitations though...
    The Second Amendment is in place
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    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    To those that think PRO did a "wrong" thing by answering.....You weren't there. To say he knows the laws, and how to carry, and what not to say is an understatement....Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. He is as pro rights, and exercises them as much as most anyone on this forum...Teaches others about it for goodness sakes. Anyone who carries regualrly knows, and we have talked about times when it's best to just move on becasue there are bigger things in life at that moment. I.E. out with just your 4 year old, and a cop gets a little nosy. Play along for a few to get away, and not risk having a grandson being picked up by the "Human(e) society"...Sometimes it's easier to just say "shopping with my grandson", then "I don't talk to cops"...YMMV...Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do....A man has to know his limitations though...

    Well said!

  22. #22
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ProShooter - the day ended well and that is what counts in this case.

    I don't care how you got from A to B - that was your call and no one else's.

    Those that don't know you and snipe assume too much - they don't know the rest of the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    To those that think PRO did a "wrong" thing by answering.....You weren't there. To say he knows the laws, and how to carry, and what not to say is an understatement....Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. He is as pro rights, and exercises them as much as most anyone on this forum...Teaches others about it for goodness sakes. Anyone who carries regularly knows, and we have talked about times when it's best to just move on becausee there are bigger things in life at that moment. I.E. out with just your 4 year old, and a cop gets a little nosy. Play along for a few to get away, and not risk having a grandson being picked up by the "Human(e) society"...Sometimes it's easier to just say "shopping with my grandson", then "I don't talk to cops"...YMMV...Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do....A man has to know his limitations though...

    Thank you. As I said, I didn't want it to become an issue because my focus was about my mom and her vehicle. I wasn't really concerned with getting into a shootout on Route 95 or running up and down the road waving my "rights banner", so I locked it in my truck.

    I do love reading those who want to quote the law to me, as if I didn't enforce it for 12 years and teach it for 8 years. I tend to think that I know the laws better than a good number of folks here, but I digress.

    At the moment, my focus was on my mom, but in hindsight, I realize what the Trooper was doing. Little Ms. Bad Driver saw the signs on my truck, knew that she was in the wrong in causing the accident, and was scared that I was probably one of those crazy, dangerous redneck gun owners that her Obama voting parents told her about. Surely, she must think that I'm there to shoot the place up because I'm pissed about mumma's car, right?

    So she goes over and bends the Trooper's ear and to shut her up, he comes up to ask me about it. I tell him its locked in the truck, and he can now go back to her and tell her that I don't have a gun on me. She's now calm, and leaves him the hell alone to write the accident report. I doubt seriously that he cared very much about it, because if I have a permit, to him its not a big issue....but to shut her up, he asked.

    I've worn the badge, and I have the benefit of seeing things from both sides of the fence, whereas some people here cannot. Hell, I've been in the lobby of the courthouse and have had to ask one person to move seats because the other party didn't like being stared at. Sometimes, in order to keep the peace and shut the general public the hell up, you have to ask dumb questions and play romper room nurse maid.
    James Reynolds

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    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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  23. #23
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    As I stated before, I understand why you put the gun in your car............

    --Insult and off-topic rant deleted by Moderator--

    So... Proshooter was responding to an automobile accident involving his mother and trying to sort out the possible injuries and damage ... and you think he should have been more concerned about standing up for his 2nd and 4th Amendment Rights, even with the Deputy not making an issue of it, just asking the question in response to the girl's hoplophobia ...... and you think that makes him a sheep? Really? Seriously, dude?

    If Maslow had created a hierarchy of principled responses, I suspect that standing up for 2nd and 4th Amendment rights would be near the top of the pyramid (i.e., at the self-actualization level), and taking care of one's Mom near the bottom (i.e., physiological needs). You do understand that the lower levels must be satisfied before we can take on the higher levels, right?

    Your comments are inane and do not recognize what was most important in his situation.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-26-2013 at 06:43 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    As I stated before, I understand why you put the gun in your car. ............

    --Insult and off-topic rant deleted by Moderator--

    I'll try to be more perfect like you next time.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-26-2013 at 06:44 PM.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    I'll try to be more perfect like you next time.
    I'm not sure you'd look as professional with a clown nose and floppy shoes Jim.

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