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Thread: Time to put guns in the polling places to bed

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Time to put guns in the polling places to bed

    It amazes me how some of our members here keep plugging at an issue until it's settled for good.

    I tried to get straight answers from the BOE and got the run around. VCDL couldn't find a law against it but there was still the unanswered question about a policy at the Board of Elections that would allow Registrars like the one in Chesterfield to ban guns from otherwise legal places.

    There was always that nagging possibility of being arrested.

    Well Marco kept on it with Bob Bell and the answer is.....the BOE does NOT have a policy that would allow a Registrar to pull that stunt.

    Hats off to Marco and Delegate Bell!

    Last edited by peter nap; 07-25-2013 at 01:15 AM.

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    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It amazes me how some of our members here keep plugging at an issue until it's settled for good.

    I tried to get straight answers from the BOE and got the run around. VCDL couldn't find a law against it but there was still the unanswered question about a policy at the Board of Elections that would allow Registrars like the one in Chesterfield to ban guns from otherwise legal places.

    There was always that nagging possibility of being arrested.

    Well Marco kept on it with Bob Bell and the answer is.....the BOE does NOT have a policy that would allow a Registrar to pull that stunt.

    Hats off to Marco and Delegate Bell!

    I hope, but remain skeptical, that SBOE will remove those portions of their written guidance to poll officers to bring it into compliance with their stated position of having no policy regarding firearms at the polls. If that written guidance is not removed, there will remain the problem of a local poll officer feeling compelled to follow written guidance from SBOE. And, even if the Commonwealth issue is resolved, there always remains the risk of one or more voters claiming that they were intimidated from voting due to the presence of a visible firearm in a holster in the voting area. That would become a federal issue under the Voting Rights Act. In light of Zimmerman, I really don't want to go up against AG Holder.

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    If Black Panthers can stand outside poling places carrying night sticks and the Holder won't prosecute them for intimidation then he shouldn't need to worry about prosecuting armed law abiding citizens carrying at poling places.
    Last edited by mobeewan; 07-25-2013 at 02:39 AM.

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    Nice job Marco!

    Except that my polling place is a school....

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USNA69 View Post
    I hope, but remain skeptical, that SBOE will remove those portions of their written guidance to poll officers to bring it into compliance with their stated position of having no policy regarding firearms at the polls. If that written guidance is not removed, there will remain the problem of a local poll officer feeling compelled to follow written guidance from SBOE. And, even if the Commonwealth issue is resolved, there always remains the risk of one or more voters claiming that they were intimidated from voting due to the presence of a visible firearm in a holster in the voting area. That would become a federal issue under the Voting Rights Act. In light of Zimmerman, I really don't want to go up against AG Holder.
    First, "Well done!" to Marco. Slap a big Navy E on the side of your car.

    There is the risk that some other voter is going to claim they were intimidated from voting because anything about your made them uncomfortable/frightened. I'm surprised there are not calls about a homocidal crazy guy every time I go vote - my polling place is at a school and I leave my handgun and holster at home just to avoid any complications. Maybe it's because I have nothing much to lose and know how much of an administrative PITA I would be to anybody incarcerating me but I'm more than willing to go up against Holder. I'd do it with half my brain tied behind my back (to quote someone on talk radio) and see if the ACLU wanted to share the glory of a win with my Public Defender.

    At some point someone has to stop being afraid of the "what ifs" and actually do it. Anybody with a polling place that is not a school willing to let me move in 22/13/7 days before the election? http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/RegistrationDeadlines.html

    stay safe.

    stay safe.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USNA69 View Post
    I hope, but remain skeptical, that SBOE will remove those portions of their written guidance to poll officers to bring it into compliance with their stated position of having no policy regarding firearms at the polls. If that written guidance is not removed, there will remain the problem of a local poll officer feeling compelled to follow written guidance from SBOE. And, even if the Commonwealth issue is resolved, there always remains the risk of one or more voters claiming that they were intimidated from voting due to the presence of a visible firearm in a holster in the voting area. That would become a federal issue under the Voting Rights Act. In light of Zimmerman, I really don't want to go up against AG Holder.
    Sigh!...........
    Have you written the BOE with your concerns and included a copy of the above letter? Do you plan to?

    I do!

    I'll actually do what I normally do and pay them a personal visit. Why would I do such a thing when I don't plan to vote????

    Why did I bother in the first place since my polling place is a school?????

    Because it needs to be done and I hate sitting around hoping someone'll pull a rabbit out of their hat.

    Marco has done the Lions share of the work already!
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-25-2013 at 08:39 AM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    This is great news.

    "There is no policy in effect at the SBOE, and thus we have no opinion, informal or otherwise. When one of your constituents does get hassled because a local poll boss made a policy up on the fly, and gets popped by the po-po, then we might revisit our no opinion opinion, but only if you then again ask for our opinion. But, until that happens, buzz off."

    Thanks
    Opinion Czar
    and Senior Bureaucrat

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    This is great news.

    "There is no policy in effect at the SBOE, and thus we have no opinion, informal or otherwise. When one of your constituents does get hassled because a local poll boss made a policy up on the fly, and gets popped by the po-po, then we might revisit our no opinion opinion, but only if you then again ask for our opinion. But, until that happens, buzz off."

    Thanks
    Opinion Czar
    and Senior Bureaucrat
    Yeah, you're right!

    Marco, how dare you get Bell to confirm THERE IS NO POLICY THAT WOULD ALLOW THE REGISTRAR TO POST THE POLLS!

    What we really need is the informal opinion requested, that has no weight of law, is not published, and would confirm that the BOE has NO POLICY THAT WOULD ALL OW THE REGISTRAR TO POST THE POLLS.


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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Sigh!...........
    Why did I bother............

    Because it needs to be done
    This is why I like you People. Citizenship is a Verb!
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yeah, you're right!

    Marco, how dare you get Bell to confirm THERE IS NO POLICY THAT WOULD ALLOW THE REGISTRAR TO POST THE POLLS!

    What we really need is the informal opinion requested, that has no weight of law, is not published, and would confirm that the BOE has NO POLICY THAT WOULD ALL OW THE REGISTRAR TO POST THE POLLS.

    Nor is there, it seems, a policy that would prohibit posting the polls. My post, that you seem to find frustrating, is directed towards the bureaucrat at the AGs office and not at the delegate or Marco's efforts. Getting half the story, in my view, is better than not getting any story at all.

    "No such policy in effect" is not the same as "not having a policy at all."

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Nor is there, it seems, a policy that would prohibit posting the polls. My post, that you seem to find frustrating, is directed towards the bureaucrat at the AGs office and not at the delegate or Marco's efforts. Getting half the story, in my view, is better than not getting any story at all.

    "No such policy in effect" is not the same as "not having a policy at all."
    You're missing the point. A registrar doesn't have the authority to post the polls on his own, in fact, restricting access to voting places is a very serious matter since it could change the outcome of an election.

    The Code of Virginia has some provisions for both the registrar and the BOE to follow. Other provisions are promulgated by the BOE via the authority given by the Commonwealth. In National Elections, Federal rules also apply.

    The BOE had a manual they published allowing the staff to deal with armed people causing a disruption, not posting the polls. The Registrars in question were saying they had the Authority under a BOE Rule.....which we now know doesn't exist.

    I can't see anything more an AG opinion could do.

    The job at hand now, is to force the BOE to amend their manual.
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-25-2013 at 12:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It amazes me how some of our members here keep plugging at an issue until it's settled for good.

    I tried to get straight answers from the BOE and got the run around. VCDL couldn't find a law against it but there was still the unanswered question about a policy at the Board of Elections that would allow Registrars like the one in Chesterfield to ban guns from otherwise legal places.

    There was always that nagging possibility of being arrested.

    Well Marco kept on it with Bob Bell and the answer is.....the BOE does NOT have a policy that would allow a Registrar to pull that stunt.

    Hats off to Marco and Delegate Bell!

    This in respect to BOE offices? Or election judges at polling places? Just to clarify.

    The letter implies offices and your thread title indicates polling places....and registrars v. judges
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-25-2013 at 01:52 PM.

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    This in respect to BOE offices? Or election judges at polling places? Just to clarify.

    The letter implies offices and your thread title indicates polling places....and registrars v. judges
    read the letter again, it states "polling stations" in the second sentence.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    read the letter again, it states "polling stations" in the second sentence.
    David doesn't read, it interferes with replying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    David doesn't read, it interferes with replying.
    In the letter .. thx for the nice reply. Now, is is registrars or election judges. Oh, no answer was provided in your trolling reply.

    Don't care anymore. Kudos, just looked up case law too at westlaw.

    Now I know & you can blow.

    Toodles.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    In the letter .. thx for the nice reply. Now, is is registrars or election judges. Oh, no answer was provided in your trolling reply.

    Don't care anymore. Kudos, just looked up case law too at westlaw.

    Now I know & you can blow.

    Toodles.
    That wasn't a trolling reply David. It was a direct and deliberate insult. I'm really sick of your crap and you burned the last bridge with me when you insulted Grapeshot the other day.
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-25-2013 at 05:48 PM.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    In the letter .. thx for the nice reply. Now, is is registrars or election judges. Oh, no answer was provided in your trolling reply.

    Don't care anymore. Kudos, just looked up case law too at westlaw.

    Now I know & you can blow.

    Toodles.
    Why the rudeness and hostility? This forum is for reasoned discussion and debate, not insult hurling.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Peter and crew,

    I am more than willing to go out, and talk to and get the "policy" for the polls in writing for the manuals to be updated, or whatever is needed. I am not completely up on exactly WHO I need to make contact with. I am making a presumption that it would be the state board of elections, in Richmond? Is/are there local offices that would also need to be visited in like the Hampton roads area, a congressional district? I'm here to learn, and to try and do my part. Please, don't laugh at me. Not too hard anyway..
    The Second Amendment is in place
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    Peter and crew,

    I am more than willing to go out, and talk to and get the "policy" for the polls in writing for the manuals to be updated, or whatever is needed. I am not completely up on exactly WHO I need to make contact with. I am making a presumption that it would be the state board of elections, in Richmond? Is/are there local offices that would also need to be visited in like the Hampton roads area, a congressional district? I'm here to learn, and to try and do my part. Please, don't laugh at me. Not too hard anyway..
    The State Board of Elections in Richmond are the one's that pblish the manuals so an email to them would help.
    It's not a bad idea for people to go to their local Registrar and make sure they understand they don't have the authority or blessing from the BOE, to Ban Firearms from areas otherwise legal for carry in.

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Local Electoral Boards

    Every city and county has a three-member Electoral Board. The following is a list of the main duties of your Electoral Board: (Among their duties)
    Trains the Officers of Election.


    After researching our local election boards, and registrar duties, I think, talking to the Chief of the local election board would be the place to start.
    Thanks Marco...Question though..Since Mr Bell is the delegate from "Chesterfield", and my delegate seat is actually open ATT, would talking to the BOE Chief here, and telling him what was found have any weight? Oh well, won't hurt to try. I can look like a knowledgeable professional if need be...
    The Second Amendment is in place
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    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

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    Stretch, scratch, yawn....all interesting I suppose unless like me my polling place is a school. Then it seems that none of this matters, right?
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdan01 View Post
    Stretch, scratch, yawn....all interesting I suppose unless like me my polling place is a school. Then it seems that none of this matters, right?
    There is a difference between "none of this matters" and "will not have any significant impact on me". I hope you were trying to express the latter.

    Did you forget that one of the agenda items is to eliminate the restriction against carrying on school property? When that goal is achieved, this will matter to you.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobeewan View Post
    If Black Panthers can stand outside poling places carrying night sticks and the Holder won't prosecute them for intimidation then he shouldn't need to worry about prosecuting armed law abiding citizens carrying at poling places.
    That was in Pennsylvania wasn't it? Hopefully we do things differently down here in Virginia.

    So as far as the BOE is concerned, I suppose that the fact a polling place is located within a school still overrides the carrying of firearms to vote. In other words, the school doesn't cease to be a school during voting times does it?
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 07-27-2013 at 08:46 AM.
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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    The State Board of Elections in Richmond are the one's that pblish the manuals so an email to them would help.
    It's not a bad idea for people to go to their local Registrar and make sure they understand they don't have the authority or blessing from the BOE, to Ban Firearms from areas otherwise legal for carry in.


    Prior to getting confirmation of no offical policy I spoke with my local Registrar and they confirmed there was a policy and had no plans to implement one.

    However, I knew this already as my wife and I had no issues when we voted, oc of course.
    Or poling station is the Americn Legion Hall or the volunteer fire station.
    Last edited by Marco; 07-27-2013 at 09:56 AM.
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  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Prior to getting confirmation of no offical policy I spoke with my local Registrar and they confirmed there was a policy and had no plans to implement one.

    However, I knew this already as my wife and I had no issues when we voted, oc of course.
    Or poling station is the Americn Legion Hall or the volunteer fire station.
    I'll have to go back and look at the exact wording Marco but it was something about asking people to cover up if they got complaints. That's what I was referring to.

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