Time to put guns in the polling places to bed

peter nap · Jul 25, 2013

It amazes me how some of our members here keep plugging at an issue until it's settled for good.

I tried to get straight answers from the BOE and got the run around. VCDL couldn't find a law against it but there was still the unanswered question about a policy at the Board of Elections that would allow Registrars like the one in Chesterfield to ban guns from otherwise legal places.

There was always that nagging possibility of being arrested.

Well Marco kept on it with Bob Bell and the answer is.....the BOE does NOT have a policy that would allow a Registrar to pull that stunt.

Hats off to Marco and Delegate Bell!

USNA69 · Jul 25, 2013

peter nap said:
It amazes me how some of our members here keep plugging at an issue until it's settled for good.

I tried to get straight answers from the BOE and got the run around. VCDL couldn't find a law against it but there was still the unanswered question about a policy at the Board of Elections that would allow Registrars like the one in Chesterfield to ban guns from otherwise legal places.

There was always that nagging possibility of being arrested.

Well Marco kept on it with Bob Bell and the answer is.....the BOE does NOT have a policy that would allow a Registrar to pull that stunt.

Hats off to Marco and Delegate Bell!

I hope, but remain skeptical, that SBOE will remove those portions of their written guidance to poll officers to bring it into compliance with their stated position of having no policy regarding firearms at the polls. If that written guidance is not removed, there will remain the problem of a local poll officer feeling compelled to follow written guidance from SBOE. And, even if the Commonwealth issue is resolved, there always remains the risk of one or more voters claiming that they were intimidated from voting due to the presence of a visible firearm in a holster in the voting area. That would become a federal issue under the Voting Rights Act. In light of Zimmerman, I really don't want to go up against AG Holder.

mobeewan · Jul 25, 2013

If Black Panthers can stand outside poling places carrying night sticks and the Holder won't prosecute them for intimidation then he shouldn't need to worry about prosecuting armed law abiding citizens carrying at poling places.

Blk97F150 · Jul 25, 2013

Nice job Marco!

Except that my polling place is a school.... :banghead:

skidmark · Jul 25, 2013

USNA69 said:
I hope, but remain skeptical, that SBOE will remove those portions of their written guidance to poll officers to bring it into compliance with their stated position of having no policy regarding firearms at the polls. If that written guidance is not removed, there will remain the problem of a local poll officer feeling compelled to follow written guidance from SBOE. And, even if the Commonwealth issue is resolved, there always remains the risk of one or more voters claiming that they were intimidated from voting due to the presence of a visible firearm in a holster in the voting area. That would become a federal issue under the Voting Rights Act. In light of Zimmerman, I really don't want to go up against AG Holder.

First, "Well done!" to Marco. Slap a big Navy E on the side of your car.

There is the risk that some other voter is going to claim they were intimidated from voting because anything about your made them uncomfortable/frightened. I'm surprised there are not calls about a homocidal crazy guy every time I go vote - my polling place is at a school and I leave my handgun and holster at home just to avoid any complications. Maybe it's because I have nothing much to lose and know how much of an administrative PITA I would be to anybody incarcerating me but I'm more than willing to go up against Holder. I'd do it with half my brain tied behind my back (to quote someone on talk radio) and see if the ACLU wanted to share the glory of a win with my Public Defender.

At some point someone has to stop being afraid of the "what ifs" and actually do it. Anybody with a polling place that is not a school willing to let me move in 22/13/7 days before the election? http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/RegistrationDeadlines.html

stay safe.

stay safe.

peter nap · Jul 25, 2013

USNA69 said:
I hope, but remain skeptical, that SBOE will remove those portions of their written guidance to poll officers to bring it into compliance with their stated position of having no policy regarding firearms at the polls. If that written guidance is not removed, there will remain the problem of a local poll officer feeling compelled to follow written guidance from SBOE. And, even if the Commonwealth issue is resolved, there always remains the risk of one or more voters claiming that they were intimidated from voting due to the presence of a visible firearm in a holster in the voting area. That would become a federal issue under the Voting Rights Act. In light of Zimmerman, I really don't want to go up against AG Holder.

Sigh!...........

Have you written the BOE with your concerns and included a copy of the above letter? Do you plan to?

I do!

I'll actually do what I normally do and pay them a personal visit. Why would I do such a thing when I don't plan to vote????

Why did I bother in the first place since my polling place is a school?????

Because it needs to be done and I hate sitting around hoping someone'll pull a rabbit out of their hat.

Marco has done the Lions share of the work already!

OC for ME · Jul 25, 2013

This is great news.

"There is no policy in effect at the SBOE, and thus we have no opinion, informal or otherwise. When one of your constituents does get hassled because a local poll boss made a policy up on the fly, and gets popped by the po-po, then we might revisit our no opinion opinion, but only if you then again ask for our opinion. But, until that happens, buzz off."

Thanks
Opinion Czar
and Senior Bureaucrat

peter nap · Jul 25, 2013

OC for ME said:
This is great news.

"There is no policy in effect at the SBOE, and thus we have no opinion, informal or otherwise. When one of your constituents does get hassled because a local poll boss made a policy up on the fly, and gets popped by the po-po, then we might revisit our no opinion opinion, but only if you then again ask for our opinion. But, until that happens, buzz off."

Thanks
Opinion Czar
and Senior Bureaucrat

Yeah, you're right!

Marco, how dare you get Bell to confirm THERE IS NO POLICY THAT WOULD ALLOW THE REGISTRAR TO POST THE POLLS!

What we really need is the informal opinion requested, that has no weight of law, is not published, and would confirm that the BOE has NO POLICY THAT WOULD ALL OW THE REGISTRAR TO POST THE POLLS.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

MSG Laigaie · Jul 25, 2013

peter nap said:
Sigh!...........
Why did I bother............

Because it needs to be done

This is why I like you People. Citizenship is a Verb!

OC for ME · Jul 25, 2013

peter nap said:
Yeah, you're right!

Marco, how dare you get Bell to confirm THERE IS NO POLICY THAT WOULD ALLOW THE REGISTRAR TO POST THE POLLS!

What we really need is the informal opinion requested, that has no weight of law, is not published, and would confirm that the BOE has NO POLICY THAT WOULD ALL OW THE REGISTRAR TO POST THE POLLS.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Nor is there, it seems, a policy that would prohibit posting the polls. My post, that you seem to find frustrating, is directed towards the bureaucrat at the AGs office and not at the delegate or Marco's efforts. Getting half the story, in my view, is better than not getting any story at all.

"No such policy in effect" is not the same as "not having a policy at all."

peter nap · Jul 25, 2013

OC for ME said:
Nor is there, it seems, a policy that would prohibit posting the polls. My post, that you seem to find frustrating, is directed towards the bureaucrat at the AGs office and not at the delegate or Marco's efforts. Getting half the story, in my view, is better than not getting any story at all.

"No such policy in effect" is not the same as "not having a policy at all."

You're missing the point. A registrar doesn't have the authority to post the polls on his own, in fact, restricting access to voting places is a very serious matter since it could change the outcome of an election.

The Code of Virginia has some provisions for both the registrar and the BOE to follow. Other provisions are promulgated by the BOE via the authority given by the Commonwealth. In National Elections, Federal rules also apply.

The BOE had a manual they published allowing the staff to deal with armed people causing a disruption, not posting the polls. The Registrars in question were saying they had the Authority under a BOE Rule.....which we now know doesn't exist.

I can't see anything more an AG opinion could do.

The job at hand now, is to force the BOE to amend their manual.

davidmcbeth · Jul 25, 2013

peter nap said:
It amazes me how some of our members here keep plugging at an issue until it's settled for good.

I tried to get straight answers from the BOE and got the run around. VCDL couldn't find a law against it but there was still the unanswered question about a policy at the Board of Elections that would allow Registrars like the one in Chesterfield to ban guns from otherwise legal places.

There was always that nagging possibility of being arrested.

Well Marco kept on it with Bob Bell and the answer is.....the BOE does NOT have a policy that would allow a Registrar to pull that stunt.

Hats off to Marco and Delegate Bell!

This in respect to BOE offices? Or election judges at polling places? Just to clarify.

The letter implies offices and your thread title indicates polling places....and registrars v. judges

scouser · Jul 25, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
This in respect to BOE offices? Or election judges at polling places? Just to clarify.

The letter implies offices and your thread title indicates polling places....and registrars v. judges

read the letter again, it states "polling stations" in the second sentence.

peter nap · Jul 25, 2013

scouser said:
read the letter again, it states "polling stations" in the second sentence.

David doesn't read, it interferes with replying.:uhoh:

davidmcbeth · Jul 25, 2013

peter nap said:
David doesn't read, it interferes with replying.:uhoh:

In the letter .. thx for the nice reply. Now, is is registrars or election judges. Oh, no answer was provided in your trolling reply.

Don't care anymore. Kudos, just looked up case law too at westlaw.

Now I know & you can blow.

Toodles.

peter nap · Jul 25, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
In the letter .. thx for the nice reply. Now, is is registrars or election judges. Oh, no answer was provided in your trolling reply.

Don't care anymore. Kudos, just looked up case law too at westlaw.

Now I know & you can blow.

Toodles.

That wasn't a trolling reply David. It was a direct and deliberate insult. I'm really sick of your crap and you burned the last bridge with me when you insulted Grapeshot the other day.

Thundar · Jul 25, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
In the letter .. thx for the nice reply. Now, is is registrars or election judges. Oh, no answer was provided in your trolling reply.

Don't care anymore. Kudos, just looked up case law too at westlaw.

Now I know & you can blow.

Toodles.

Why the rudeness and hostility? This forum is for reasoned discussion and debate, not insult hurling.

Red Dawg · Jul 26, 2013

Peter and crew,

I am more than willing to go out, and talk to and get the "policy" for the polls in writing for the manuals to be updated, or whatever is needed. I am not completely up on exactly WHO I need to make contact with. I am making a presumption that it would be the state board of elections, in Richmond? Is/are there local offices that would also need to be visited in like the Hampton roads area, a congressional district? I'm here to learn, and to try and do my part. Please, don't laugh at me. Not too hard anyway..

peter nap · Jul 26, 2013

Red Dawg said:
Peter and crew,

I am more than willing to go out, and talk to and get the "policy" for the polls in writing for the manuals to be updated, or whatever is needed. I am not completely up on exactly WHO I need to make contact with. I am making a presumption that it would be the state board of elections, in Richmond? Is/are there local offices that would also need to be visited in like the Hampton roads area, a congressional district? I'm here to learn, and to try and do my part. Please, don't laugh at me. Not too hard anyway..

The State Board of Elections in Richmond are the one's that pblish the manuals so an email to them would help.
It's not a bad idea for people to go to their local Registrar and make sure they understand they don't have the authority or blessing from the BOE, to Ban Firearms from areas otherwise legal for carry in.

Red Dawg · Jul 26, 2013

Local Electoral Boards

Every city and county has a three-member Electoral Board. The following is a list of the main duties of your Electoral Board: (Among their duties)
Trains the Officers of Election.

After researching our local election boards, and registrar duties, I think, talking to the Chief of the local election board would be the place to start.
Thanks Marco...Question though..Since Mr Bell is the delegate from "Chesterfield", and my delegate seat is actually open ATT, would talking to the BOE Chief here, and telling him what was found have any weight? Oh well, won't hurt to try. I can look like a knowledgeable professional if need be...

Time to put guns in the polling places to bed

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