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Thread: Miliatry Police granted national carry privileges

  1. #1
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Miliatry Police granted national carry privileges

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...l/#more-244883


    "H.R.218 has been amended again this year and now there is specific wording that addresses military police both active duty and retired."

    Disgusting


    --Moderator Note--

    Edited offensive reference to Nazi policies in original title - replaced with "Military Police" in keeping with the article.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-25-2013 at 07:50 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    MPs? hahaha that's funny


    I get on active duty guys now who don't wear their dress uniforms in public now ... way too many of them - like the gov't is trying to condition us to think its normal.

    And the COs don't care ..... poop
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-25-2013 at 08:54 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    As much as I am opposed to all of these LEOSA privileges extensions, I see this as nothing but one more drop in the bucket of Only Ones.

    Servicemembers assigned the MP MOS are sworn law enforcement officers with the same or better levels of training as their civillian counterparts. If they retire as MPs it means they have put in the same 20 years required for civillian cops to be covered by LEOSA. They are merely a subset that are exposed to different types of threats than the cop on the mean streets of stateside USA.

    What bothers me is that the original intent of LEOSA was "to put more cops on the streets" by somehow magically making a bunch of cops carrying concealed into a major crime prevention tool. Seems to have worked out real well, hasn't it? [/sarcasm]

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As much as I am opposed to all of these LEOSA privileges extensions, I see this as nothing but one more drop in the bucket of Only Ones.

    Servicemembers assigned the MP MOS are sworn law enforcement officers with the same or better levels of training as their civillian counterparts. If they retire as MPs it means they have put in the same 20 years required for civillian cops to be covered by LEOSA. They are merely a subset that are exposed to different types of threats than the cop on the mean streets of stateside USA.

    What bothers me is that the original intent of LEOSA was "to put more cops on the streets" by somehow magically making a bunch of cops carrying concealed into a major crime prevention tool. Seems to have worked out real well, hasn't it? [/sarcasm]

    stay safe.
    Actually, for a retired/resigned LEO to be covered under LEOSA they only need to have served TEN years as a LEO. The law has been amended and now covers several different agencies of government, including DoD and MPs.

    18 USC § 926C

    3.Before such separation, served as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 10 years or more; or separated from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

    I know I sure feel much safer now that I can carry in places that I couldn't before I became a peace officer. I STILL believe it is RIDICULOUS that every other individual cannot carry wherever they please, but if I have the ability to carry in places most others cannot I WILL certainly do so so that I can protect myself and all the others that have been disarmed due to unconstitutional laws. I do NOT believe I am any more deserving or that I have more of a right to carry than ANYONE else in this country, but at least SOME of the GOOD guys can be armed until we get all of these unconstitutional laws off of the books.

    I will NEVER enforce an unconstitutional gun-law, and I believe they are ALL unconstitutional. I have a duty to uphold and defend the constitutional rights of ALL of my fellow citizens, and that is ONE way I will always do so.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 07-26-2013 at 07:16 AM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    BS.

    Another privileged class is birthed.

    Once you are no longer a active duty cop you are a civilian. No special bennies for you cuz I don't get them either.

    Pure BS.

    Time to fire off a e-mail and make a phone call.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    BS.

    Another privileged class is birthed.

    Once you are no longer a active duty cop you are a civilian. No special bennies for you cuz I don't get them either.

    Pure BS.

    Time to fire off a e-mail and make a phone call.
    I'll call BS too and go one further, they deserve no special bennies after making a living off of money stolen from peoples and engaging in a job that is supposed to be constitutionally restricted not "extra constitutional".
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I used to BASH LEOs just like you all did BEFORE I became one.

    You really have no idea what it is like until you wear the hat.

    My life is threatened on a daily basis; my fiancée has received phone calls threatening her life and that of my children; I've been in more fights in eight months than I have in my entire life, and I have pissed plenty of people off that believed their criminal activity that was harming others was none of my business.

    How often does this happen to any of you? I know it NEVER happened to me UNTIL I became a PEACE officer.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    I used to BASH LEOs just like you all did BEFORE I became one.

    You really have no idea what it is like until you wear the hat.

    My life is threatened on a daily basis; my fiancée has received phone calls threatening her life and that of my children; I've been in more fights in eight months than I have in my entire life, and I have pissed plenty of people off that believed their criminal activity that was harming others was none of my business.

    How often does this happen to any of you? I know it NEVER happened to me UNTIL I became a PEACE officer.
    You have my respect, sir. You go where others fear to tread - hope you can maintain your positive attitude.

    Ever been inside a large penitentiary environment - not a super max locked down one? Just like on the street, except compacted in a big concrete and steel box. I miss the old Virginia State Penitentiary and the institutional academy so much that my eyes get misty
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    I will NEVER enforce an unconstitutional gun-law, and I believe they are ALL unconstitutional. I have a duty to uphold and defend the constitutional rights of ALL of my fellow citizens, and that is ONE way I will always do so.
    Good for you. Refuse to enforce any laws that don't aim to punish unjustified violence or fraud and you will have my respect.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    I used to BASH LEOs just like you all did BEFORE I became one.
    I don't see anyone here bashing leos. They may be bashing an out of control government intent on giving special privileges. In that I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    You really have no idea what it is like until you wear the hat.
    This is irrelevant to the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    My life is threatened on a daily basis; my fiancée has received phone calls threatening her life and that of my children; I've been in more fights in eight months than I have in my entire life, and I have pissed plenty of people off that believed their criminal activity that was harming others was none of my business.

    How often does this happen to any of you? I know it NEVER happened to me UNTIL I became a PEACE officer.
    It is my opinion that if you choose the job then deal with the consequence. All jobs have them... some more than others. I feel no special sense of gratitude, empathy towards leos. After all, the people that are most likely to violate my rights on any given day are, well, leos. I also don't bash them in general. I know of some good people with a badge.

    If I may ask, what type of criminal activity was harming others that caused the animosity from those who thought you were in their business?

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    I am by no means trying to "bash" you, I just need to state some opinions.


    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    I used to BASH LEOs just like you all did BEFORE I became one.

    You really have no idea what it is like until you wear the hat.
    Same song. Same verse. "Ive been a cop for 30 years! How do you know more about it than I do!"

    I believe that most, say 75% of law enforcement, are there to actually protect and serve. The rest, at an alarming increase, are there for the power trip of hiding behind a badge, and act as pre programmed robots who do nothing but "follow orders". They also know that there is some protection from what us low life civilians get. Thankfully, more and more are coming out against this tyrannical form of government.

    My life is threatened on a daily basis; my fiancée has received phone calls threatening her life and that of my children; I've been in more fights in eight months than I have in my entire life, and I have pissed plenty of people off that believed their criminal activity that was harming others was none of my business.

    How often does this happen to any of you? I know it NEVER happened to me UNTIL I became a PEACE officer.
    You made your bed, my friend. There are lots of jobs more dangerous than yours, which in the latest polls doesnt even break the top twenty. Im not trying to take away from what you do, just putting it into perspective.

    I have a few questions... First, is it worth it? To have your family threatened, risk life and limb for a job that the pay/work load is completely unbalanced? Second, are you a peace officer or law enforcement? There is a difference. A peace officer protects people from others who would commit crimes against them and realizes and upholds the oath taken to protect first the Constitution and then the people. A LEO blindly enforces the law without care as to the people he his affecting. Do you write seatbelt tickets? Pull people over for other non-victim violations like a license plate lights out and tinted windows? If your superiors give you orders to do random stops for registration checks, would you?

    Your answers to these questions will really shed light on what kind of police officer you believe you are.

    Stay safe my friend.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    I used to BASH LEOs just like you all did BEFORE I became one.

    You really have no idea what it is like until you wear the hat.

    My life is threatened on a daily basis; my fiancée has received phone calls threatening her life and that of my children; I've been in more fights in eight months than I have in my entire life, and I have pissed plenty of people off that believed their criminal activity that was harming others was none of my business.

    How often does this happen to any of you? I know it NEVER happened to me UNTIL I became a PEACE officer.
    I recommend you quit and get a productive job.

    For your sake, and your family's.

    I respect that you wish to be a peace officer, and abide by the constitution, but you're in the wrong field. Your profession does not share your values.
    Last edited by marshaul; 07-26-2013 at 12:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    What bothers me is that the original intent of LEOSA was "to put more cops on the streets" by somehow magically making a bunch of cops carrying concealed into a major crime prevention tool.
    If that's so, then how is it that cops carrying concealed are a crime prevention tool, but civilians carry concealed aren't?

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randian View Post
    If that's so, then how is it that cops carrying concealed are a crime prevention tool, but civilians carry concealed aren't?
    Must be all that... training.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    The amazing part is up until now, military police were not allowed to carry while not on duty. Suddenly the law goes against military policy, I am sure some commanders have steam coming out of their ears.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    I am by no means trying to "bash" you, I just need to state some opinions.




    Same song. Same verse. "Ive been a cop for 30 years! How do you know more about it than I do!"

    I believe that most, say 75% of law enforcement, are there to actually protect and serve. The rest, at an alarming increase, are there for the power trip of hiding behind a badge, and act as pre programmed robots who do nothing but "follow orders". They also know that there is some protection from what us low life civilians get. Thankfully, more and more are coming out against this tyrannical form of government.



    You made your bed, my friend. There are lots of jobs more dangerous than yours, which in the latest polls doesnt even break the top twenty. Im not trying to take away from what you do, just putting it into perspective.

    I have a few questions... First, is it worth it? To have your family threatened, risk life and limb for a job that the pay/work load is completely unbalanced? Second, are you a peace officer or law enforcement? There is a difference. A peace officer protects people from others who would commit crimes against them and realizes and upholds the oath taken to protect first the Constitution and then the people. A LEO blindly enforces the law without care as to the people he his affecting. Do you write seatbelt tickets? Pull people over for other non-victim violations like a license plate lights out and tinted windows? If your superiors give you orders to do random stops for registration checks, would you?

    Your answers to these questions will really shed light on what kind of police officer you believe you are.

    Stay safe my friend.
    I am of the opinion that it is NONE of my business what people do with their vehicles, as long as they are not putting other people's lives in danger. If someone doesn't want to wear a seatbelt then that is their prerogative. To be honest I rarely wear mine, because I have seen first-hand the damage that the restraint device can cause.

    I am a peace officer, but I also have to enforce the laws at times. I can tell you that MOST of the time I do not like arresting people, but it is part of the job, and is a necessary part in order to protect other people's rights from criminals that would like to infringe upon them. I do NOT like taking people's liberty away from them, but the people that I have arrested were doing those very things to other people on the street.

    As for the threats, it just comes with the territory. I will NOT give in and allow the VIOLENT criminals of my county to interfere with my DUTIES as a peace officer. I CAN do more good in my position than in any other, and if I have to deal with the threats then I will for the sake of everyone. I would rather myself be in this position than someone who has no respect for other's birth-rights, or those that are on a power-trip.

    Plenty of people here are complaining about peace officers and so forth, but if they really feel the way they do they should do what I did, and enter the profession themselves and change it from the inside. If we continue to set by and watch as tyrants take over our peace officer positions, then we will surely have a REAL standing army right here in our borders. I was sick and tired of hearing about all of the bad that was going on inside the profession so I decided I would do something about it.

    When I do arrest someone for an act that harmed another's rights, I am in a position where I can speak with them about it and ask questions. I have moments where I can get one on one time with these people and let them know what it really is they have done, and that an infringement on someone else's rights is a VERY serious offense. Some people don't care and these are the ones that doesn't bother me. If it doesn't bother someone to deprive another of their rights with violence, then I don't care to throw them in jail. However, occasionally I will reach someone and get them to understand just how horrible their actions were, and that makes ALL the difference. In this pursuit however, I do run across violent individuals that like to threaten. Being as they have already committed violent acts, what keeps them from doing so again towards myself? I want to be able to protect myself from them if they did attempt to do so, because if I am not able to do so then I will NO longer be able to protect the rights of my brothers and sisters because I COULD end up dead.

    I am in this profession because I want to help people and stand up for them -- nothing more, nothing less. I am one of those rare individuals that will actually give people MY advice on legal matters. I like to inform people of their rights, and if I hear that another officer infringed on their rights I am the first to inform them of it, and I will inform them of what they can and cannot do when it comes to exercising their rights. Just the other day another officer tried to claim to a passenger in a vehicle that he had to show his I.D. or else he could be arrested. I immediately clarified the facts to him and he closed his mouth and set quietly in the passenger seat, and NEVER did show his I.D.

    It is amazing how ignorant people are when it comes to THEIR rights. We need the good guys and girls to enter the field so that we can educate and protect people. This job IS dangerous at times, but the danger is worth it in order to be in a position where we can make ACTUAL CHANGE.

    Of course we really don't know what it is like until we enter the field; I can attest to this first-hand. MOST people that we deal with are very rude and have no regard for other people, much less other people's rights. But if people like US do not start entering this field and move it BACK towards the peace officer role, then eventually we will be living in a all-out police state. I DON'T want this, and that is why I am a PEACE officer.

    I refused to set on the sidelines while the position of peace officer turned into a full-blown LEO position.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    And pretty much every LEO has an SOP to NOT draw while off duty, but to "observe and report" while calling 911 and letting the on duty troops get the job done.

    This SOP for many reasons.

    1. Plainclothes LEOs get shot A LOT more than uniformed LEOs.

    2. No radio contact.

    3. Guys holding guns get shot at a higher rate than guys without guns, by LEOs.

    4. Off duty and possibly out of your jurisdiction, you have NO IDEA what MIGHT be going on vis a vis undercover ops, gang activity, etc.

    Therefore the only difference between off duty LEOs and armed civilians is the police training which really means nothing in the cases you would expect the LEO to react in with his LEOSA exception.
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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Someone please correct me if I a m wrong here, I was under the impression that the present day MP's duties had changed substantially from the traditional. Supposedly they are mostly concerned with rounding up enemy combatants after the assault wave has gone through, and interring them in POW camps. So how does this translate to civilian need?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Someone please correct me if I a m wrong here, I was under the impression that the present day MP's duties had changed substantially from the traditional. Supposedly they are mostly concerned with rounding up enemy combatants after the assault wave has gone through, and interring them in POW camps. So how does this translate to civilian need?
    They operate right here at home on military bases and they are also responsible for any active-duty individual that violates the UCMJ. They also retrieve any one that has went AWOL that has been arrested by any local LE agency. They actually do many different things under many different agencies. They patrol bases, conduct investigations, etc.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Miliatry Police granted national carry privileges

    What bothers me most about this is not that people who are currently LEOs, or now MPs, have a nationwide carry privilege, but that this is extended to RETIRED individuals.
    I seem to recall that California had an exception to their "Assault Weapons" (sic) Registration law for retired LEO and that this exception was deemed by a court as violating the 14th amendment. Sorry that I can't provide more information about that such as which court, or even a link; I've searched for hours on-line but have been unable to find the case again. I read it once, moved on, and didn't think to bookmark it.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    What bothers me most about this is not that people who are currently LEOs, or now MPs, have a nationwide carry privilege, but that this is extended to RETIRED individuals.
    I seem to recall that California had an exception to their "Assault Weapons" (sic) Registration law for retired LEO and that this exception was deemed by a court as violating the 14th amendment. Sorry that I can't provide more information about that such as which court, or even a link; I've searched for hours on-line but have been unable to find the case again. I read it once, moved on, and didn't think to bookmark it.
    The good thing about the internet is there is so much information, it is also bad thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    What bothers me most about this is not that people who are currently LEOs, or now MPs, have a nationwide carry privilege, but that this is extended to RETIRED individuals.
    I seem to recall that California had an exception to their "Assault Weapons" (sic) Registration law for retired LEO and that this exception was deemed by a court as violating the 14th amendment. Sorry that I can't provide more information about that such as which court, or even a link; I've searched for hours on-line but have been unable to find the case again. I read it once, moved on, and didn't think to bookmark it.
    Retired officer aren't given retirement commissions? in Washington several departments allow their officers to post test and qualify yearly and retain their commissions after retirement...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  23. #23
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Miliatry Police granted national carry privileges

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Retired officer aren't given retirement commissions? in Washington several departments allow their officers to post test and qualify yearly and retain their commissions after retirement...
    Can they continue to function in the same capacity: investigate crimes and have arrest power? The LEOSA differentiates between retired LEO and currently employed LEO. If they were carrying under the provision for retirees, they are no longer LEO, and it would appear to be discriminatory. Allowing an officer from Wisconsin to carry out of state when on official business is something I consider logical. Covering people that once were LEOs but now are civilians seems antithetical to the idea of equal protection. In my job, as in many other peoples jobs that interact with individuals who tend to be violent and aren't above eliminating those with whom they disagree, I have been threatened, and my family has also been threatened, by those with whom I have to deal with on a daily basis. Likewise, a person who gets a permit to carry specifically because they have been threatened with harm seems to have a need to be able to carry nationwide at least as much as a person who was once a LEO.
    If retired LEO are allowed to carry nationwide, then so too should everyone else be able to do likewise.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 07-28-2013 at 10:44 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post

    Plenty of people here are complaining about peace officers and so forth, but if they really feel the way they do they should do what I did, and enter the profession themselves and change it from the inside. If we continue to set by and watch as tyrants take over our peace officer positions, then we will surely have a REAL standing army right here in our borders. I was sick and tired of hearing about all of the bad that was going on inside the profession so I decided I would do something about it.
    LOL....no. I won't join an unconstitutional proactive institution to change it from the inside any more than I would join the KKK to change it's bigoted views from the inside.

    The standing army the founders warned about is here in the form of the departments of armed to the teeth street warriors from the federal level to our local municipalities, they don't need us to join them they need us to severely restrict/limit and in many cases abolish them.

    Peace Officer positions in the modern proactive stance haven't been taken over, it was not good from the very beginning.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    LOL....no. I won't join an unconstitutional proactive institution to change it from the inside any more than I would join the KKK to change it's bigoted views from the inside.
    the difference is, the KKK has no governmental authority (although they at one point had members in high political positions across the country, and contrary to popular belief, had great influence outside the south) it doesn't hurt or benefit you to organize a takeover of the KKK

    on the other hand, government by nature has authority, so if they're using too much authority, then the philosophy of a non-hostile takeover becomes more sensical.

    besides isn't that the whole philosophy behind the "Free State Project" that libertarians are trying to run in New Hampshire? to take over the counties and install their people in government positions?
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 07-28-2013 at 10:34 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

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