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Thread: kid brings bat to rob a gun store!

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    Regular Member mjcromp's Avatar
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    kid brings bat to rob a gun store!


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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    kid brings bat to rob a gun store!

    lmao! fail doesnt even come close to the level of dumb in this story!
    HOPE FOR THE BEST, EXPECT THE WORST, PREPARE FOR WAR

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    What? I do that all the time.

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    Regular Member mjcromp's Avatar
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    Reminds me of the old Indiana Jones movie with the guy waving the sword and Indy pulls out the gun. Problem solved!
    Last edited by mjcromp; 07-26-2013 at 03:40 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Dumb, dumber, dumbest

    Dumb to get involved in criminal activity.

    Dumber to select a gun store to rob.

    Dumbest to try to rob a gun store while employees are there and armed.

    Bet he won't try that again........any time soon.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Maybe he thought 'who's going to shoot a KID with just a bat?' Perhaps he thought he'd just walk out? I'm actually surprised that 'ordering him to the ground' worked, and that the store owner wasn't charged with 'unlawful detainment' or kidnapping.

    I do think the store owner should have shot him, since he was armed at the time he came out of the back. How was he to know that was an unloaded 'store gun'.

    Would have saved the state some money. :/

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    Re: kid brings bat to rob a gun store!

    How do you figure a 22 year old is a kid?

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    How do you figure a 22 year old is a kid?

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
    Well-l-l, the title of the thread?

    When I was 22 I looked 15, if that; in fact, when I was 31 a middle-aged professional came to the store I was working at and didn't like something about the merchandise. He said 'you're just some dumb kid, let me talk to the manager'. So to the owner (and to himself) he probably thought he could get away with stuff due to his young appearance, IDK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    How do you figure a 22 year old is a kid?

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
    There's an information fail in the media text, too.

    Where's the robbery? A smash-and-grab is not a robbery. Where's the information that supports the robbery label? Who did the crook threaten with the bat in order to obtain the goods?

    Garbage media.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    How do you figure a 22 year old is a kid?
    It's the T martin rule. Always call them "child" regardless of actual age.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    I guess that guy struck out ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I guess that guy struck out ...
    <groan>

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    ... I'm actually surprised that 'ordering him to the ground' worked, and that the store owner wasn't charged with 'unlawful detainment' or kidnapping.

    ....
    Armed robbery (baseball bat and knife) is a violent felony. Use of deadly force to stop a violent felony is allowed. Can you be sure Mosley would not commit another violent felony if he were allowed to leave?

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    <groan>

    OK .. how about:

    A swing and a miss !

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I guess that guy struck out ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    <groan>
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    OK .. how about: A swing and a miss !
    ..... there is no joy in Mudville Beaverton - mighty Casey Derrick has struck out.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-26-2013 at 05:29 PM. Reason: fixed
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Maybe he thought 'who's going to shoot a KID with just a bat?' Perhaps he thought he'd just walk out? I'm actually surprised that 'ordering him to the ground' worked, and that the store owner wasn't charged with 'unlawful detainment' or kidnapping.

    I do think the store owner should have shot him, since he was armed at the time he came out of the back. How was he to know that was an unloaded 'store gun'.

    Would have saved the state some money. :/
    Maybe on the East and Left Coasts. Not in any other place. Holding a Felon for the police is NOT a crime.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Maybe he thought 'who's going to shoot a KID with just a bat?' Perhaps he thought he'd just walk out? I'm actually surprised that 'ordering him to the ground' worked, and that the store owner wasn't charged with 'unlawful detainment' or kidnapping.

    I do think the store owner should have shot him, since he was armed at the time he came out of the back. How was he to know that was an unloaded 'store gun'.

    Would have saved the state some money. :/
    I'm familiar with the penal codes and common law in three states and in all of them, average citizens absolutely have the right to detain a person who has committed a violent felony in their presence.

    The force must be "reasonable" or they risk civil liability and possible criminal charges, but the force would have to be very egregious and disproportionate for those things to be concern. Unlike a LEO they do not have qualified immunity, however the courts generally accept that laypeople are not trained in UOF so give them a fair amount of leeway as long as they act "reasonably".

    Store security detain people all the time and they have no special "powers" beyond that of any other citizen. They are just EMPLOYED to detect and detain but any average joe has the same authority that a store security officer has when it comes to detaining people for a witnessed felony

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post

    Maybe on the East and Left Coasts. .
    ROFL ... good one (even if not true .. the point is taken and true)

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    There's an information fail in the media text, too.

    Where's the robbery? A smash-and-grab is not a robbery. Where's the information that supports the robbery label? Who did the crook threaten with the bat in order to obtain the goods?

    Garbage media.
    Not sure if serious. I googled and looked in legal dictionaries and they all say 'smash and grab robbery'. Can you elucidate?

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Not sure if serious. I googled and looked in legal dictionaries and they all say 'smash and grab robbery'. Can you elucidate?
    Common law

    Robbery was an offence under the common law of England. Matthew Hale provided the following definition:
    Robbery is the felonious and violent taking of any money or goods from the person of another, putting him in fear, be the value thereof above or under one shilling.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbery#Common_law

    A so-called "legal dictionary":

    Robbery is a crime of theft and can be classified as Larceny by force or by threat of force. The elements of the crime of robbery include the use of force or intimidation and all the elements of the crime of larceny. The penalty for robbery is always more severe than for larceny.

    The general elements of robbery are the taking of Personal Property or money from the person or presence of another, the use of actual or constructive force, the lack of consent on the part of the victim, and the intent to steal on the part of the offender.


    The taking must be accomplished either by force or by intimidation. This element is the essence and distinguishing characteristic of the offense. Taking by force without intimidation is robbery. Taking by intimidation without the use of actual force is also robbery. Force and intimidation are alternate requirements, and either is sufficient without the other.

    The force must be sufficient to effect the transfer of the property from the victim to the robber. It must amount to actual personal violence. The line between robbery and larceny from the person is not always easy to draw. For example, when a thief snatches a purse from the owner's grasp so suddenly that the owner cannot offer any resistance to the taking, the force involved is not sufficient to constitute robbery. Hence that crime would be larceny. If a struggle for the purse ensues before the thief can gain possession of it, however, there is enough force to make the taking robbery. The same is true of pick-pocketing. If the victim is unaware of the taking, no robbery has occurred and the crime is larceny. But if the victim catches the pickpocket in the act and struggles unsuccessfully to keep possession, the pickpocket's crime becomes robbery.

    The particular degree of force becomes important only when considered in connection with the grade of the offense or the punishment to be imposed. Evidence establishing a personal injury or a blow, or force sufficient to overcome any resistance the victim was capable of offering, is not required.

    A robber may also render the victim helpless by more subtle means. Constructive force includes demonstrations of force, menace, and other means that prevent a victim from exercising free will or resisting the taking of property. Administering intoxicating liquors or drugs in order to produce a state of unconsciousness or stupefaction is using force for purposes of robbery. Constructive force will support a robbery charge.

    Intimidation means putting in fear. The accused must intentionally cause the fear and induce a reasonable apprehension of danger, but not necessarily a great terror, panic, or hysteria in the victim. The fear must be strong enough to overcome the victim's resistance and cause the victim to part with the property. The victim who is not fearful of harm from the robber so long as she does what the robber says, but who expects harm if she refuses, is nevertheless "put in fear" for the purposes of robbery.

    Putting the victim in fear of bodily injury is sufficient. The fear can be aroused by words or gestures, such as threatening the victim with a weapon. The threat of immediate bodily injury or death does not have to be directed at the owner of the property. It may be made to a member of the owner's family, other relatives, or even someone in the owner's company.

    The force or intimidation must either precede or be contemporaneous with the taking to constitute a robbery. Violence or intimidation after the taking is not robbery. If, however, the force occurs so soon after the taking that it forms part of the same transaction, the violence is legally concurrent with the taking. Force or intimidation employed after the taking and merely as a means of escape is not a sufficient basis for a robbery charge.
    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/robbery
    Last edited by marshaul; 07-27-2013 at 12:02 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Not sure if serious. I googled and looked in legal dictionaries and they all say 'smash and grab robbery'. Can you elucidate?
    Yes, serious. Marshaul got to it before I did, so see his post just above. Force or threat of force against a person as an element of the theft.

    Thus, taking a purse from a grocery cart while the shopper's back is turned would be larceny. Threatening to smash her face unless she gives over the purse would be robbery.

    Smashing a display case in a jewelry store, grabbing some items, and running wouldn't necessarily be robbery. Threatening the clerk with the bat, and then smashing the display case changes it from larceny to robbery.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Next ?: why have they not caught Robin yet?

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    Re: kid brings bat to rob a gun store!

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Next ?: why have they not caught Robin yet?
    He was both. Batman was Robin a gun store!

    Sorry, caffeine level is running a little low.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b0neZ View Post
    He was both. Batman was Robin a gun store!
    Oh, so you're a Joker, eh?

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    There's an information fail in the media text, too.

    Where's the robbery? A smash-and-grab is not a robbery. Where's the information that supports the robbery label? Who did the crook threaten with the bat in order to obtain the goods?

    Garbage media.
    Because the store owner was present and a weapon was used, in Texas and Oklahoma it is Aggravated Robbery and Armed Robbery respectively.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

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