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Thread: Tense Situation At Freedom Value Gas station..Prescott

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    Cool Tense Situation At Freedom Value Gas station..Prescott

    On Friday night I was at the above mentioned gas station with my son who is 20 years old. He wanted one can of flavored beer which he got and we went to the counter. I am Ocing which I do all the time. I have been in that gas station before a gazillion times Ocing and have bought my snoot. Anyway, the cashier who I have not seen before asked for an ID. I looked at her and said 'My ID?" She said, "no, his". meaning my son's I said "I am buying the can." She said "But he brought it to the counter." My son said "WI law allows a parent or guardian to buy me beer." She was up front from the beginning and I could see that the situation was only going to get worst. She said" I cannot sell beer to a minor here because it is a convenience store. Only stores with a hard liquor license allow that. it is the law." My son said " I am a former Freedom employee and I have never heard of that." Rather than argue, we left and went to a liquor store and bought 1 can of beer. a fer minutes after we arrived home, I get a call from my constitutional leo buddy asking me where I was." I said "at moms'." he said "I need to come over and talk to you." "Good" I thought since I had been trying to get hold of him for a fer days. he came over in a police SUV and with his partner in a regular squad car. he said" some one just filed a complaint against you and I know it is false." he proceeded to tell me the events that unfolded after I left there. he got a 911 call saying that an Arab was at the store and because he was not served, lifted up his shirt and flashed a gun and left in a maroon car. I was in a white caddy. Then they did see a maroon car going up the highway and called for massive backup. Three squads from hastings MN across the river and two Pierce county deputies swarmed this maroon car and at gunpoint hauled out the terrified owner. OOPS
    They then went back and inquired further from the employee, the description and one employee said he was black, but she recognized my name. I am a Caucasian. My leo buddy asked me ( by this time I had them both in the house and had served coffee) "was this what you were wearing?" I said " yes." I was dressed in good dress clothes with my shirt TUCKED in, which is what I ALWAYS do with my 357 at the hip.. he said I know you and you ALWAYS keep your shirt tucked in. He had recognized me finally and had toled the other cops/deputies who I was and that I have a 357. One deputy said that he too knew me. After coffee I drove back in the cruiser with my gun still at my hip to the gas station. He inquired further from the employee if I had actually lifted my shirt and flashed the gun? She said she was not sure. He said that I have a constitutional right to carry a handgun and that he knows my character and that I always have my shirt tucked in. he requested the security camera footage and that he was going to refer this case to a detective. He warned her of making false statements. Privately he told me that she could be arrested for what she did and that she had previously made false statements and I have a case against the gas station. Now I am wondering if the innocent driver who was stopped at gunpoint will take legal action? Boy What a night!!!!!!!!!! Thank God My leo buddy and his partner whom I also know were working the overnight shift!
    Last edited by Law abider; 07-26-2013 at 08:14 PM.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Damm Mate, what a night. That could have been and was supposed to be you and your Son in that vehicle. I believe they call this "Swatting". You could have a crazy wasting/stealing tax dollars to put Citizens in harms way to even a grudge.

    This is a "must prosecute" situation for you, your Son, and the guy that could have been shot.




    Oh, and the "grammar nazis" will hit you on sentence structure so get your flame suit.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    She shouldn't have been warned. She should have been dragged out in cuffs.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Damm Mate, what a night. That could have been and was supposed to be you and your Son in that vehicle. I believe they call this "Swatting". You could have a crazy wasting/stealing tax dollars to put Citizens in harms way to even a grudge.

    This is a "must prosecute" situation for you, your Son, and the guy that could have been shot.




    Oh, and the "grammar nazis" will hit you on sentence structure so get your flame suit.
    I hardly slept last nite thinking about what could have happened had I stayed around a wee bit longer. Having a little snoot today to help me sleep. All I say is: get to know some good leos in your town or county deputies. can help at times

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    She abused the law and should be charged and arrested. She could have ruined a man's life.

    I suggest a small video recorder such as this: http://www.amazon.com/Veho-Muvi-Pro-...ords=muvi+veho worn at all times even when not carrying. I clip mine to the front of my shirt in the "Standby" mode and use it whenever I feel the need. It records about an hour and works well.

    Stay frosty...
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burl View Post
    Your 20 yr old son should have been cuffed and run for being a minor in possession of an intoxicating beverage. YOU should not have let him be in possession of alcohol since you were right there and since there was no consumption allowed on the premises.

    Basically your problem and your fault.
    You don't know the law very well at all do you?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    She abused the law and should be charged and arrested. She could have ruined a man's life.

    I suggest a small video recorder such as this: http://www.amazon.com/Veho-Muvi-Pro-...ords=muvi+veho worn at all times even when not carrying. I clip mine to the front of my shirt in the "Standby" mode and use it whenever I feel the need. It records about an hour and works well.

    Stay frosty...
    I definitely am going to get one! Thanks buddy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burl View Post
    Your 20 yr old son should have been cuffed and run for being a minor in possession of an intoxicating beverage. YOU should not have let him be in possession of alcohol since you were right there and since there was no consumption allowed on the premises.

    Basically your problem and your fault.
    What? There was no consumption. I was just buying. We only consume at home. What state do you reside in?? Hope not NY,Illinois or CA.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    What? There was no consumption. I was just buying. We only consume at home. What state do you reside in?? Hope not NY,Illinois or CA.
    Ignore the stalker/troll. Better yet, just report him.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Ignore the stalker/troll. Better yet, just report him.
    Another incarnation of Liberal?

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Another incarnation of Liberal?
    One of the 3 dozen+ usernames this stalker has used.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  12. #12
    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burl View Post
    Maybe you should reread your first report. The clerk was one hundred percent correct. Your MINOR son was in possession in a store that does not allow consumption on their premises. Your MINOR son went and got the beer according to you. If the police do watch store video, you and your kid may be charged.
    *Yawn*
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and alcoholism is the new Doug Huffman."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burl View Post
    Maybe you should reread your first report. The clerk was one hundred percent correct. Your MINOR son was in possession in a store that does not allow consumption on their premises. Your MINOR son went and got the beer according to you. If the police do watch store video, you and your kid may be charged.
    BZZZ! WRONG!

    I am the police (for 31 years as of July 17th of this year) and for several years I was an alcohol compliance investigator in my agencies detective bureau.

    HERE is a legal publication by the Wisconsin Department of Revenue that is issued to all licensed vendors.

    From the document (bolding mine):

    An underage person may not possess alcohol beverages
    anywhere unless accompanied by a parent, guardian, or
    spouse of legal drinking age (sec.
    125.07(4)(b).
    :
    (sec.125.07(4)(bm), Wis. Stats.)

    SALES AND SERVICE OF
    ALCOHOL BEVERAGES TO
    UNDERAGE PERSONS
    An underage person accompanied by a parent, guardian,
    or spouse of legal drinking age may be sold or served
    alcohol beverages in any licensed premises

    .(Sec.125.07(1), Wis. Stats.)


    If you have any honor you will admit you are incorrect and that will be the end of it. Somehow I have a feeling that's not going to happen,though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burl View Post
    You have been on fantasy island for too long.
    What exactly does that mean? Are you calling me a liar? Have the testicular fortitude to call me a liar then.

    But you cannot deny the cite I posted, including the relevant statutes. You can look them up yourself if you don't believe my cite is unadulterated.

    The store isn't required to sell anything to anyone they don't want to, but that kid was not breaking any laws in Wisconsin.

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    Respond to the legal cite I posted, please. Do you still think the OP's son committed an illegal act? And if so, please post a cite evidencing what the illegal act was.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    She abused the law and should be charged and arrested. She could have ruined a man's life.

    I suggest a small video recorder such as this: http://www.amazon.com/Veho-Muvi-Pro-...ords=muvi+veho worn at all times even when not carrying. I clip mine to the front of my shirt in the "Standby" mode and use it whenever I feel the need. It records about an hour and works well.

    Stay frosty...
    Careful, some members of the forum will have a hissy fit throw their skirts up over their heads and tell you you live in your mom's basement and are paranoid if you suggest carrying a running recorder.

    Just sayin'...

  17. #17
    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burl View Post
    Forget it, bother someone else.
    Says the loser of the debate. Those darn facts and citations
    Last edited by Plankton; 07-27-2013 at 09:23 AM.
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and alcoholism is the new Doug Huffman."

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Careful, some members of the forum will have a hissy fit throw their skirts up over their heads and tell you you live in your mom's basement and are paranoid if you suggest carrying a running recorder.

    Just sayin'...
    LOL! I always have at least two recorders on me at all times. One runs for about 15 hours before recharging and the other is the small video recorder shown in my previous post. All my vehicles have GoPro recorders running whenever the ignition is on. I learned years ago to record everything to protect myself & used one of my recordings legally a few years back to prove fault. Small investment, years of protection.

    We invest a lot of money & time for our right to keep & bear arms yet many refuse to carry a recording device to protect themselves.

    Stay frosty!
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

  19. #19
    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burl View Post
    What debate? This fairytale thread is the real loser, neighbor.
    *Yawn*
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and alcoholism is the new Doug Huffman."

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Not Worth Your Time Pete

    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Respond to the legal cite I posted, please. Do you still think the OP's son committed an illegal act? And if so, please post a cite evidencing what the illegal act was.
    Pete, don't waste your time with this "person". Most of us know you are a police officer and open carry when not on duty.

    Stay frosty!
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Tense Situation At Freedom Value Gas station..Prescott

    Wisconsin's sub-forum is starting to look like Michigan's.

    The thread does bring up an issue which may be applicable anywhere OC is legal, though.

    As background, I've been carrying about 10 years now, OCing about 6 years. One question I haven't been able to adequately answer: How does an OCer protect oneself from having somebody accuse the OCer of the behavior described in this post. I do wear an audio recorder and quite frankly, do so less often since OC in Michigan is fairly well accepted. In the situation described above, the OP had two things in his favor: a LEO who knew him and also knew that the OP carries openly. Also, there appears to be a store video to confirm the OP's behavior at the store. But, if an OCer doesn't have either of these to support their contention that they acted legally, it would seem it turns into a situation of who's more believable. Knowing the disposition of some LEOs to people open carrying, I can imagine that there is eventually going to be a situation where an OCer is successfully convicted of a crime...the elements being that a person carrying concealed exposed their pistol in order to intimidate someone. Although I see the value of having a video recorder taping the incident, the video is often filmed from the view if the carrier.

    Has this been a concern of some of the OCers here and, if so, what can one do to lesson the possibility of being convicted?
    Last edited by DrTodd; 07-27-2013 at 12:07 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Wisconsin's sub-forum is starting to look like Michigan's.

    The thread does bring up an issue which may be applicable anywhere OC is legal, though.

    As background, I've been carrying about 10 years now, OCing about 6 years. One question I haven't been able to adequately answer: How does an OCer protect oneself from having somebody accuse the OCer of the behavior described in this post. I do wear an audio recorder and quite frankly, do so less often since OC in Michigan is fairly well accepted. In the situation described above, the OP had two things in his favor: a LEO who knew him and also knew that the OP carries openly. Also, there appears to be a store video to confirm the OP's behavior at the store. But, if an OCer doesn't have either of these to support their contention that they acted legally, it would seem it turns into a situation of who's more believable. Knowing the disposition of some LEOs to people open carrying, I can imagine that there is eventually going to be a situation where an OCer is successfully convicted of a crime...the elements being that a person carrying concealed exposed their pistol in order to intimidate someone. Although I see the value of having a video recorder taping the incident, the video is often filmed from the view if the carrier.

    Has this been a concern of some of the OCers here and, if so, what can one do to lesson the possibility of being convicted?
    Hi Dr Todd. Yes I have known my leo sargent buddy since 1996 when I first lived in Prescott. I have had him over my place for meals and at my mom's now for years. I have been to his home too. We know each other well and he knows I oc in summer with my shirts tucked in and cc in winter bec I have to put a winter jacket on. I try to get to know them. I also know my sheriff personally and some deputies. I have sent my account to my leo friend and so has my son. He did let that employee know that my civil rights were violated in front of me. The night manager who IDed me as black profusely apologized to me and acknowledged that I have a right to keep and bear arms. Now we have to wait to see what happens on Monday. I'll keep things posted

  23. #23
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Tense Situation At Freedom Value Gas station..Prescott

    Helpful when you OC close to home, not so much outside your friend's jurisdiction. Yes, please keep us informed.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 07-27-2013 at 12:47 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burl View Post
    On what friday night did this event take place? Yesterday? A week ago? Your next post states you could hardly sleep the night after the event. Are you sure it was friday?

    The gas station has been made aware of this thread and your statements.
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and alcoholism is the new Doug Huffman."

  25. #25
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    I have found out over years that when the facts and story isn't going the way some one wants them do.

    Some people resort to personal attacks and bending of the story.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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