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Thread: Cops execute an old man - wrong house

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    Cops execute an old man - wrong house

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...poor-lighting/

    Police Fatally Shoot Grandfather, 72, While Searching the Wrong Home for Burglar, Blame ‘Poor Lighting’


    Grandpa should have learned the first lesson- don't draw a gun without shooting it. Guns are not tools to scare people ~ they are meant to be fired.

    Who believes the cops said "police!"..they must think I have been watching too many movies from the 60's

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    Shooting 28 May, warranted 5 hours later. Warrant public release this week.

    "The search warrant, which was filed five hours after the shots were fired, was just made public this week. Police are still investigating the shooting."

    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/For...216851981.html

    Police Shoot & Kill Grandfather While Responding to Burglary Call

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ghlight=waller
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-27-2013 at 05:33 PM.
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    address 404 v 409 ... hmmm the last digit tells you if it is N or W / E or S

    why i support Napoleonic law in this regard .. anyone on your land? Feel free to shoot them w/o needing a further reason.


    http://media.star-telegram.com/smedi...iT7z.So.58.pdf


    seems like the police know the difference between N,S, E, and W in the affidavit above

    Not a mistake due to lighting ... IMO ...

    if they want to do night time operations ~ they always have nightvision ~ police are lying

    we all have night vision scopes, right? right? oh, don't tell me you don't .... go get one .. should have one ar with night vision scope zeroed in...
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-27-2013 at 05:49 PM.

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    Another cop killing citizen story that will get sweep under the rug.

    CCJ

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    Good point, odd and even addresses! Sounds like a poorly attended (to) briefing. If the supervisor covered it then he should be off the hook.

    Even a blind pig snuffles a truffle.
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    It all comes down to


    "The two officers, B.B Hanlon and Arpie Hoeppner, were searching around the home with their flashlights when Waller emerged from his home armed with a handgun, investigating who was walking around his property with flashlights.

    Police radio transmissions obtained by NBC DFW captured what happened next:

    “The guy came out with a gun and wouldn’t put the gun down,’ Officer Hanlon said. ‘He pointed it at Hoeppner, Hoeppner fired,” Hanlon said.



    Both of the officers claim they identified themselves as police officers and told Waller to drop his firearm. They claim he instead lifted his firearm and pointed it at them. The police department is claiming the man was shot in self-defense."

    If these claims are true and the officers were wearing uniforms identifying themselves as LEO's, then the shooting will probably be found justified. It's certainly tragic. Just yesterday I responded to an incident where a homeowner pointed a gun at and detained a prowler at her residence and people have the absolute right to defend their property. But if confronted with LEO's in full uniform who give an order to drop the firearm and you instead raise it and point it at the officers, the officers have no choice but to fire. A classic "lawful but awful" situation.

    On many occasions, during hot foot pursuit of a subject and/or running with K9, I have traipsed through various properties, to catch the bad guy, and it's always a concern that god I hope I don't get shot by some homeowner who sees a guy running through his yard at o dark 30. Uniforms SHOULD clearly identify the officer as a LEO and that includes markings on the back, which many conventional uniforms don't have. My agencies standard uniform DOES have reflective letters on the back identifying the wearer as a LEO and our union had to fight to get our agency to agree to put it on the uniforms.

    People who call this an execution are assuming that the above claims I quoted are false. That's fine. Some people reflexively disbelieve the police. However, it's pretty clear from court cases that juries do tend to believe cops and give them ample benefit of the doubt. Consider as an example, the Amadou Diallo shooting, another tragedy. Granted, the powers that be, due to politics OVERCHARGED and charged the officers with murder vs. manslaughter (much like the Zimmerman case) but the jury still had the option of finding them guilty of manslaughter. Instead they were acquitted. Lots of other examples like that, but it shows that while you may not give cops the benefit of the doubt and may reflexively distrust their narrative, the public (as confirmed by gallup polls) by a large margin tends to respect them and give them that benefit of the doubt.

    Regardless, a man is dead who should not have died, and that's a tragedy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Good point, odd and even addresses! Sounds like a poorly attended (to) briefing. If the supervisor covered it then he should be off the hook.

    Even a blind pig snuffles a truffle.
    Well, they drove down the street ... they did not look at other addresses to see which side has odd & which side had evens? I do that, you do that, your momma does that.


    Get your night vision scopes people .. its dark 1/2 the time ... even a gen 1 would have sufficed in this instance.

    Oh wait, he was 72? Well, he would have died anyway (the new defense).
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-27-2013 at 08:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Oh wait, he was 72? Well, he would have died anyway (the new defense).
    Warrant delay authorized countersigned by Obamascare death panel. Uh oh, only seven more years! Either we are equal or we are not. NOT
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, they drove down the street ... they did not look at other addresses to see which side has odd & which side had evens?...
    These are people who drive to addresses for a living. They might even call themselves "professionals." They shouldn't even have to look to know which side of the street is odd or even.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Warrant delay authorized countersigned by Obamascare death panel. Uh oh, only seven more years! Either we are equal or we are not. NOT
    Death panel ACTIVATE ... no really, this 72 yr old guy got shot by thugs ... stupid stupid thugs ..

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    Re: Cops execute an old man - wrong house

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    These are people who drive to addresses for a living. They might even call themselves "professionals." They shouldn't even have to look to know which side of the street is odd or even.
    + to infinity! Come on guys...wrong side of street? Clearly mistakes were made. :what:
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    What were the ages of the officer and victim? Are old white people going to riot and burn down their old nursing homes citing "Ageism"? Perhaps Al Sharpton, who is 58, will give a speech about how the young cops stalked this old man.
    Last edited by tomrkba; 07-28-2013 at 12:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    If these claims are true and the officers were wearing uniforms identifying themselves as LEO's, then the shooting will probably be found justified.

    Yea; real easy to see dark uniforms at night, with multiple high power flashlights shining in your eyes.

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    The anti's will be saying, oh well, if the senior didn't have a weapon he would have stayed inside his property and called police.
    The weapon gave the senior a false sense of security and that weapon got him killed. Blah,blah,blah
    I can see it now..

    CCJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    It all comes down to


    "The two officers, B.B Hanlon and Arpie Hoeppner, were searching around the home with their flashlights when Waller emerged from his home armed with a handgun, investigating who was walking around his property with flashlights.

    Police radio transmissions obtained by NBC DFW captured what happened next:

    “The guy came out with a gun and wouldn’t put the gun down,’ Officer Hanlon said. ‘He pointed it at Hoeppner, Hoeppner fired,” Hanlon said.



    Both of the officers claim they identified themselves as police officers and told Waller to drop his firearm. They claim he instead lifted his firearm and pointed it at them. The police department is claiming the man was shot in self-defense."

    If these claims are true and the officers were wearing uniforms identifying themselves as LEO's, then the shooting will probably be found justified. It's certainly tragic. Just yesterday I responded to an incident where a homeowner pointed a gun at and detained a prowler at her residence and people have the absolute right to defend their property. But if confronted with LEO's in full uniform who give an order to drop the firearm and you instead raise it and point it at the officers, the officers have no choice but to fire. A classic "lawful but awful" situation.

    On many occasions, during hot foot pursuit of a subject and/or running with K9, I have traipsed through various properties, to catch the bad guy, and it's always a concern that god I hope I don't get shot by some homeowner who sees a guy running through his yard at o dark 30. Uniforms SHOULD clearly identify the officer as a LEO and that includes markings on the back, which many conventional uniforms don't have. My agencies standard uniform DOES have reflective letters on the back identifying the wearer as a LEO and our union had to fight to get our agency to agree to put it on the uniforms.

    People who call this an execution are assuming that the above claims I quoted are false. That's fine. Some people reflexively disbelieve the police. However, it's pretty clear from court cases that juries do tend to believe cops and give them ample benefit of the doubt. Consider as an example, the Amadou Diallo shooting, another tragedy. Granted, the powers that be, due to politics OVERCHARGED and charged the officers with murder vs. manslaughter (much like the Zimmerman case) but the jury still had the option of finding them guilty of manslaughter. Instead they were acquitted. Lots of other examples like that, but it shows that while you may not give cops the benefit of the doubt and may reflexively distrust their narrative, the public (as confirmed by gallup polls) by a large margin tends to respect them and give them that benefit of the doubt.

    Regardless, a man is dead who should not have died, and that's a tragedy
    Agreed.

    I can see the bad guys now, going out and putting some reflective tape on there shirts/jackets that say POLICE.

    CCJ

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    Re: Cops execute an old man - wrong house

    MAC702 Made a great point - How is it my pizza delivery guy can tell you which side of the street any house is on, but these highly trained officers didn't know that odd number ending addresses are on one side of the street and even numbered ending addresses are on the other side of the street? Really? Poor lighting, Poor planning, more like poor mental processing on these officers part. If the Dumb@$$es would of been at the right house, (a) this citizen would be alive still.(b)They may have caught the actual prowler/thief they were dispatched to catch.... :what:
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    Cops execute an old man - wrong house

    Who's says that this man in his 70+ years hasn't come across a thug impersonating an officer? Even if its an officer what the hell are you doin on my property uninvited and with no warrant present?

    Not saying everyone is perfect.. Mistakes happen but seriously? Wrong house wrong side? And the "bad guy" got away.

    Where's the speech from the White House saying that this act of gun violence should be stopped. This tragedy not just for the widow not just for the community but for our nation?

    -more rankings of an overworked underpaid citizen..


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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    The loss of this man's life is deplorable. However, there is something nobody has mentioned yet.
    If this address was handwritten rather than typed, I would want to see the document! There are many people whose handwriting is bad enough (including mine!) that mistaking a "4" and a "9" isn't that difficult.
    Then there should have been a double check. No excuse.

    Hey Doc, it was my left arm that needed to be removed why did you remove my right leg and not my left arm?

    If the (bad) handwriting is an excuse for killing innocent people, in your book, then this world is more F'd up than I thought.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    The correct solution is too obvious.

    Rather than make cops responsible for manslaughter and murder, we need to make it easier for cops. The correct solution is just have everyone assume the position in their foyer like in the movie The Fifth Element--as soon as the police arrive on your street, just walk to the wall in your own home and put your hands in the painted circles, feet back and spread.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    The correct solution is too obvious.

    Rather than make cops responsible for manslaughter and murder, we need to make it easier for cops. The correct solution is just have everyone assume the position in their foyer like in the movie The Fifth Element--as soon as the police arrive on your street, just walk to the wall in your own home and put your hands in the painted circles, feet back and spread.
    Thank you for your cooperation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    The correct solution is too obvious.

    Rather than make cops responsible for manslaughter and murder, we need to make it easier for cops. The correct solution is just have everyone assume the position in their foyer like in the movie The Fifth Element--as soon as the police arrive on your street, just walk to the wall in your own home and put your hands in the painted circles, feet back and spread.
    Negative I am a meat Popsicle (if I recall correctly)

    Isn't it sad that people think the solution should be clear identification not staying the hell off of peoples property.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Negative I am a meat Popsicle (if I recall correctly)

    Isn't it sad that people think the solution should be clear identification not staying the hell off of peoples property.
    Napoleon thought that ... I agree. Someone on your property? Shoot away with immunity. Its the way it should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Then there should have been a double check. No excuse.

    Hey Doc, it was my left arm that needed to be removed why did you remove my right leg and not my left arm?

    If the (bad) handwriting is an excuse for killing innocent people, in your book, then this world is more F'd up than I thought.
    It's not an "excuse" but it would explain why they were at the wrong house. Once there IF what was posted is true, then it is a bad situation all around, but I can see it being a justified shooting under current law (man raised a gun on the cops).

    Though I also don't approve of them getting an after-the-fact warrant like what was posted either. Nor do I like the laws that allow police to shoot people who are protecting theirselves/property when the police make a mistake such as this.

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    And if the victim had actually killed the 2 intruders, would he have been charged? You bet you butt. It would have gone to trial and depleted all the guy's money just to be found not guilty.

    I have no sympathy for the people who shot this guy ... they never should have been there to begin with. They are the ones who directly caused his death ; to blame the victim is contrary to reasonable thinking.

    IMO the killers had a duty to withdraw .. had no right to order the person to disarm .. and are guilty of murder.

    There have been too many of these instances ... our thinking of it must change. Once it is changed, these night time gestapo tactics will end for the most part. I don't think that the law needs changing at all; I think the application of the law needs to be changed.

    This is not a tragedy .. its murder. You go into a wrong house and kill someone - you are a murderer.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-29-2013 at 03:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    It all comes down to


    "The two officers, B.B Hanlon and Arpie Hoeppner, were searching around the home with their flashlights when Waller emerged from his home armed with a handgun, investigating who was walking around his property with flashlights.

    Police radio transmissions obtained by NBC DFW captured what happened next:

    “The guy came out with a gun and wouldn’t put the gun down,’ Officer Hanlon said. ‘He pointed it at Hoeppner, Hoeppner fired,” Hanlon said.



    Both of the officers claim they identified themselves as police officers and told Waller to drop his firearm. They claim he instead lifted his firearm and pointed it at them. The police department is claiming the man was shot in self-defense."

    If these claims are true and the officers were wearing uniforms identifying themselves as LEO's, then the shooting will probably be found justified. It's certainly tragic. Just yesterday I responded to an incident where a homeowner pointed a gun at and detained a prowler at her residence and people have the absolute right to defend their property. But if confronted with LEO's in full uniform who give an order to drop the firearm and you instead raise it and point it at the officers, the officers have no choice but to fire. A classic "lawful but awful" situation.

    On many occasions, during hot foot pursuit of a subject and/or running with K9, I have traipsed through various properties, to catch the bad guy, and it's always a concern that god I hope I don't get shot by some homeowner who sees a guy running through his yard at o dark 30. Uniforms SHOULD clearly identify the officer as a LEO and that includes markings on the back, which many conventional uniforms don't have. My agencies standard uniform DOES have reflective letters on the back identifying the wearer as a LEO and our union had to fight to get our agency to agree to put it on the uniforms.

    People who call this an execution are assuming that the above claims I quoted are false. That's fine. Some people reflexively disbelieve the police. However, it's pretty clear from court cases that juries do tend to believe cops and give them ample benefit of the doubt. Consider as an example, the Amadou Diallo shooting, another tragedy. Granted, the powers that be, due to politics OVERCHARGED and charged the officers with murder vs. manslaughter (much like the Zimmerman case) but the jury still had the option of finding them guilty of manslaughter. Instead they were acquitted. Lots of other examples like that, but it shows that while you may not give cops the benefit of the doubt and may reflexively distrust their narrative, the public (as confirmed by gallup polls) by a large margin tends to respect them and give them that benefit of the doubt.

    Regardless, a man is dead who should not have died, and that's a tragedy
    I really hope your joking PALO....REALLY

    I'm PRO LEO most of the time but these guys screwed up big time and SHOULDN'T be cops and their boss should be fired also.

    I could get a uniform and call my self the good humor man but it dosen't mean I know ice cream. Criminals have been wearing cop uniforms for years and like in Iraq the enemy has no trouble putting on a uniform and killing innocent people, these officers are no better than TERRORISTS.
    Last edited by DocWalker; 07-29-2013 at 12:29 PM.

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