• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Cops execute an old man - wrong house

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...e-wrong-home-for-burglar-blame-poor-lighting/

Police Fatally Shoot Grandfather, 72, While Searching the Wrong Home for Burglar, Blame ‘Poor Lighting’


Grandpa should have learned the first lesson- don't draw a gun without shooting it. Guns are not tools to scare people ~ they are meant to be fired.

Who believes the cops said "police!"..they must think I have been watching too many movies from the 60's
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
address 404 v 409 ... hmmm the last digit tells you if it is N or W / E or S

why i support Napoleonic law in this regard .. anyone on your land? Feel free to shoot them w/o needing a further reason.


http://media.star-telegram.com/smedia/2013/07/24/20/34/ViT7z.So.58.pdf


seems like the police know the difference between N,S, E, and W in the affidavit above

Not a mistake due to lighting ... IMO ...

if they want to do night time operations ~ they always have nightvision ~ police are lying

we all have night vision scopes, right? right? oh, don't tell me you don't .... go get one .. should have one ar with night vision scope zeroed in...
 
Last edited:

PALO

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
729
Location
Kent
It all comes down to


"The two officers, B.B Hanlon and Arpie Hoeppner, were searching around the home with their flashlights when Waller emerged from his home armed with a handgun, investigating who was walking around his property with flashlights.

Police radio transmissions obtained by NBC DFW captured what happened next:

“The guy came out with a gun and wouldn’t put the gun down,’ Officer Hanlon said. ‘He pointed it at Hoeppner, Hoeppner fired,” Hanlon said.



Both of the officers claim they identified themselves as police officers and told Waller to drop his firearm. They claim he instead lifted his firearm and pointed it at them. The police department is claiming the man was shot in self-defense."

If these claims are true and the officers were wearing uniforms identifying themselves as LEO's, then the shooting will probably be found justified. It's certainly tragic. Just yesterday I responded to an incident where a homeowner pointed a gun at and detained a prowler at her residence and people have the absolute right to defend their property. But if confronted with LEO's in full uniform who give an order to drop the firearm and you instead raise it and point it at the officers, the officers have no choice but to fire. A classic "lawful but awful" situation.

On many occasions, during hot foot pursuit of a subject and/or running with K9, I have traipsed through various properties, to catch the bad guy, and it's always a concern that god I hope I don't get shot by some homeowner who sees a guy running through his yard at o dark 30. Uniforms SHOULD clearly identify the officer as a LEO and that includes markings on the back, which many conventional uniforms don't have. My agencies standard uniform DOES have reflective letters on the back identifying the wearer as a LEO and our union had to fight to get our agency to agree to put it on the uniforms.

People who call this an execution are assuming that the above claims I quoted are false. That's fine. Some people reflexively disbelieve the police. However, it's pretty clear from court cases that juries do tend to believe cops and give them ample benefit of the doubt. Consider as an example, the Amadou Diallo shooting, another tragedy. Granted, the powers that be, due to politics OVERCHARGED and charged the officers with murder vs. manslaughter (much like the Zimmerman case) but the jury still had the option of finding them guilty of manslaughter. Instead they were acquitted. Lots of other examples like that, but it shows that while you may not give cops the benefit of the doubt and may reflexively distrust their narrative, the public (as confirmed by gallup polls) by a large margin tends to respect them and give them that benefit of the doubt.

Regardless, a man is dead who should not have died, and that's a tragedy
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Good point, odd and even addresses! Sounds like a poorly attended (to) briefing. If the supervisor covered it then he should be off the hook.

Even a blind pig snuffles a truffle.

Well, they drove down the street ... they did not look at other addresses to see which side has odd & which side had evens? I do that, you do that, your momma does that.


Get your night vision scopes people .. its dark 1/2 the time ... even a gen 1 would have sufficed in this instance.

Oh wait, he was 72? Well, he would have died anyway (the new defense).
 
Last edited:

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Well, they drove down the street ... they did not look at other addresses to see which side has odd & which side had evens?...

These are people who drive to addresses for a living. They might even call themselves "professionals." They shouldn't even have to look to know which side of the street is odd or even.
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
These are people who drive to addresses for a living. They might even call themselves "professionals." They shouldn't even have to look to know which side of the street is odd or even.

+ to infinity! Come on guys...wrong side of street? Clearly mistakes were made. :what:
 

tomrkba

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
125
Location
Virginia
What were the ages of the officer and victim? Are old white people going to riot and burn down their old nursing homes citing "Ageism"? Perhaps Al Sharpton, who is 58, will give a speech about how the young cops stalked this old man.
 
Last edited:

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
The anti's will be saying, oh well, if the senior didn't have a weapon he would have stayed inside his property and called police.
The weapon gave the senior a false sense of security and that weapon got him killed. Blah,blah,blah
I can see it now..

CCJ
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
It all comes down to


"The two officers, B.B Hanlon and Arpie Hoeppner, were searching around the home with their flashlights when Waller emerged from his home armed with a handgun, investigating who was walking around his property with flashlights.

Police radio transmissions obtained by NBC DFW captured what happened next:

“The guy came out with a gun and wouldn’t put the gun down,’ Officer Hanlon said. ‘He pointed it at Hoeppner, Hoeppner fired,” Hanlon said.



Both of the officers claim they identified themselves as police officers and told Waller to drop his firearm. They claim he instead lifted his firearm and pointed it at them. The police department is claiming the man was shot in self-defense."

If these claims are true and the officers were wearing uniforms identifying themselves as LEO's, then the shooting will probably be found justified. It's certainly tragic. Just yesterday I responded to an incident where a homeowner pointed a gun at and detained a prowler at her residence and people have the absolute right to defend their property. But if confronted with LEO's in full uniform who give an order to drop the firearm and you instead raise it and point it at the officers, the officers have no choice but to fire. A classic "lawful but awful" situation.

On many occasions, during hot foot pursuit of a subject and/or running with K9, I have traipsed through various properties, to catch the bad guy, and it's always a concern that god I hope I don't get shot by some homeowner who sees a guy running through his yard at o dark 30. Uniforms SHOULD clearly identify the officer as a LEO and that includes markings on the back, which many conventional uniforms don't have. My agencies standard uniform DOES have reflective letters on the back identifying the wearer as a LEO and our union had to fight to get our agency to agree to put it on the uniforms.

People who call this an execution are assuming that the above claims I quoted are false. That's fine. Some people reflexively disbelieve the police. However, it's pretty clear from court cases that juries do tend to believe cops and give them ample benefit of the doubt. Consider as an example, the Amadou Diallo shooting, another tragedy. Granted, the powers that be, due to politics OVERCHARGED and charged the officers with murder vs. manslaughter (much like the Zimmerman case) but the jury still had the option of finding them guilty of manslaughter. Instead they were acquitted. Lots of other examples like that, but it shows that while you may not give cops the benefit of the doubt and may reflexively distrust their narrative, the public (as confirmed by gallup polls) by a large margin tends to respect them and give them that benefit of the doubt.

Regardless, a man is dead who should not have died, and that's a tragedy
Agreed.

I can see the bad guys now, going out and putting some reflective tape on there shirts/jackets that say POLICE.

CCJ
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
MAC702 Made a great point - How is it my pizza delivery guy can tell you which side of the street any house is on, but these highly trained officers didn't know that odd number ending addresses are on one side of the street and even numbered ending addresses are on the other side of the street? Really? Poor lighting, Poor planning, more like poor mental processing on these officers part. If the Dumb@$$es would of been at the right house, (a) this citizen would be alive still.(b)They may have caught the actual prowler/thief they were dispatched to catch.... :what:
 

Mattimusmaximus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
257
Location
Hillsboro
Who's says that this man in his 70+ years hasn't come across a thug impersonating an officer? Even if its an officer what the hell are you doin on my property uninvited and with no warrant present?

Not saying everyone is perfect.. Mistakes happen but seriously? Wrong house wrong side? And the "bad guy" got away.

Where's the speech from the White House saying that this act of gun violence should be stopped. This tragedy not just for the widow not just for the community but for our nation?

-more rankings of an overworked underpaid citizen..


-Matt of Hillsboro OR-
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
The loss of this man's life is deplorable. However, there is something nobody has mentioned yet.
If this address was handwritten rather than typed, I would want to see the document! There are many people whose handwriting is bad enough (including mine!) that mistaking a "4" and a "9" isn't that difficult.

Then there should have been a double check. No excuse.

Hey Doc, it was my left arm that needed to be removed why did you remove my right leg and not my left arm?

If the (bad) handwriting is an excuse for killing innocent people, in your book, then this world is more F'd up than I thought.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
The correct solution is too obvious.

Rather than make cops responsible for manslaughter and murder, we need to make it easier for cops. The correct solution is just have everyone assume the position in their foyer like in the movie The Fifth Element--as soon as the police arrive on your street, just walk to the wall in your own home and put your hands in the painted circles, feet back and spread.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
The correct solution is too obvious.

Rather than make cops responsible for manslaughter and murder, we need to make it easier for cops. The correct solution is just have everyone assume the position in their foyer like in the movie The Fifth Element--as soon as the police arrive on your street, just walk to the wall in your own home and put your hands in the painted circles, feet back and spread.

Thank you for your cooperation.:lol:
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
The correct solution is too obvious.

Rather than make cops responsible for manslaughter and murder, we need to make it easier for cops. The correct solution is just have everyone assume the position in their foyer like in the movie The Fifth Element--as soon as the police arrive on your street, just walk to the wall in your own home and put your hands in the painted circles, feet back and spread.

Negative I am a meat Popsicle (if I recall correctly) :lol:

Isn't it sad that people think the solution should be clear identification not staying the hell off of peoples property.
 

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
Then there should have been a double check. No excuse.

Hey Doc, it was my left arm that needed to be removed why did you remove my right leg and not my left arm?

If the (bad) handwriting is an excuse for killing innocent people, in your book, then this world is more F'd up than I thought.

It's not an "excuse" but it would explain why they were at the wrong house. Once there IF what was posted is true, then it is a bad situation all around, but I can see it being a justified shooting under current law (man raised a gun on the cops).

Though I also don't approve of them getting an after-the-fact warrant like what was posted either. Nor do I like the laws that allow police to shoot people who are protecting theirselves/property when the police make a mistake such as this.
 
Top