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Thread: OSHA say you must have your ID (licences) for all to see.

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    OSHA say you must have your ID (licences) for all to see.

    I was told that when you are working as a trades men on the job site you have to were your trade licence on your shirt for the inspector. Is that against our Constitution as a citizen we are to remain anonymous. Anyone knows of this law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoneguy View Post
    I was told that when you are working as a trades men on the job site you have to were your trade licence on your shirt for the inspector. Is that against our Constitution as a citizen we are to remain anonymous. Anyone knows of this law.
    I've never heard of that law, but it certainly doesn't sound unconstitutional as you've described it. Govt. has the authoritah to regulate business in similar ways. For example, in my state if you are a liquor server you must have your license to serve liquor (I believe they call it a permit) on your person while engaged in serving liquor. You have no right to be anonymous when you are engaged in certain types of activity regulated by the state. Think of driving your automobile where you are required to carry your driver's license while doing so, and present it to a LEO if they stop your car.

    In many states/cities, street vendors must prominently display their license on their cart, which also keeps them from being anonymous. In many states, taxi drivers must prominently display their license, which has their name on it for any occupant to see, etc. etc.

    I'd need more info on what state you were in and a cite to the law you are referring , but in brief, when a person is engaged in certain licensed activities the state can require them to display and/or carry certain documents. Many states require LEO's to carry their commission card when on duty, for example.

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    I live in washington state. We are no ID state

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    I've never heard of that law, but it certainly doesn't sound unconstitutional as you've described it. Govt. has the authoritah to regulate business in similar ways. For example, in my state if you are a liquor server you must have your license to serve liquor (I believe they call it a permit) on your person while engaged in serving liquor. You have no right to be anonymous when you are engaged in certain types of activity regulated by the state. Think of driving your automobile where you are required to carry your driver's license while doing so, and present it to a LEO if they stop your car.

    In many states/cities, street vendors must prominently display their license on their cart, which also keeps them from being anonymous. In many states, taxi drivers must prominently display their license, which has their name on it for any occupant to see, etc. etc.

    I'd need more info on what state you were in and a cite to the law you are referring , but in brief, when a person is engaged in certain licensed activities the state can require them to display and/or carry certain documents. Many states require LEO's to carry their commission card when on duty, for example.
    LOL....

    Yes under your version of government they have the authority.....under a constitutionally restricted one where is the authority?

    Last fall I kicked, WISHA L&I guy off my job volunteered nothing, and checked up on it with a lawyer I was perfectly with in my rights.
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    What about unlicensed trades? Maybe they could write out a note from Epstein's mother.

    If someone tried telling me I had to display a license at all times, I'd demand a cite to the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoneguy View Post
    I live in washington state. We are no ID state
    We are a NO ID state in regards to TERRY STOPS

    I am talking about licensed business activity. If you are engaging in certain business practices you must carry your permit or license and/or disply it promininently. Liquor establishments for instance must display their license prominently and each server must have their permit to serve liquor on their persons

    If I do a routine inspection at a bar, and the server is not carrying her permit on her I can cite her

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    What about unlicensed trades? Maybe they could write out a note from Epstein's mother.

    If someone tried telling me I had to display a license at all times, I'd demand a cite to the law.
    Here you go

    "Following State Liquor Laws
    Special license or permit holders must follow state liquor and tobacco laws and regulations during their event. A WSLCB enforcement officer may visit a licensed event to check compliance with state liquor and tobacco laws and regulations. The license or permit must be prominently displayed at the event."

    http://liq.wa.gov/licensing/special-...es-and-permits

    and here
    "When working, all employees,
    managers and owners will have
    their MAST permit with them
    plus an acceptable piece of
    identification."

    http://ssawashington.com/wp-content/...B_Briefing.pdf

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    We are a NO ID state in regards to TERRY STOPS

    I am talking about licensed business activity. If you are engaging in certain business practices you must carry your permit or license and/or disply it promininently. Liquor establishments for instance must display their license prominently and each server must have their permit to serve liquor on their persons

    If I do a routine inspection at a bar, and the server is not carrying her permit on her I can cite her
    LOL....we are a no ID State in more ways than just Terry Stops......lol......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    ...Think of driving your automobile where you are required to carry your driver's license while doing so, and present it to a LEO if they stop your car. ...
    Not to pick on you or anything, but I think that's a bad example. The only time a police officer should ever stop you in your vehicle is if he's witnessed you commit an offense, or has some other RAS or PC or other valid reason. Police officers should not and cannot legally go around stopping vehicles for no better reason than they are blue, and demand to see a DL. Nor can they tell you that you must display your DL in the windshield, or other silliness. I don't think driving and DLs compare at all. That isn't to say the government wouldn't ever try to require such silliness, and that's not to say the supreme court would find it unconstitutional, but as it stands now the two don't compare.

    IMO this "requirement" definitely sounds to me like it has no legal ground to stand on. That isn't to say they couldn't get it - our courts seem less and less considerate of the rights of citizens some days.

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    OSHA is a (middle) finger of FedGov and not a state commissioned authority. Cites of display of trades licenses must be to state statute.

    The new guy sees every thing through a limited and distorted world view. To a hammerhead, all is nail.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Not to pick on you or anything, but I think that's a bad example. The only time a police officer should ever stop you in your vehicle is if he's witnessed you commit an offense, or has some other RAS or PC or other valid reason. Police officers should not and cannot legally go around stopping vehicles for no better reason than they are blue, and demand to see a DL. Nor can they tell you that you must display your DL in the windshield, or other silliness. I don't think driving and DLs compare at all. That isn't to say the government wouldn't ever try to require such silliness, and that's not to say the supreme court would find it unconstitutional, but as it stands now the two don't compare.

    IMO this "requirement" definitely sounds to me like it has no legal ground to stand on. That isn't to say they couldn't get it - our courts seem less and less considerate of the rights of citizens some days.
    I legally kicked a routine state inspector off my job a few months ago. Although the rules of my state say I must have my business licence ( which isn't ID) the inspector had no authority to come onto private property to inspect, I have checked this with a lawyer and with my local NFIB, and I am in the clear, I am under no obligation to voluntarily ID myself to him. I know state agents don't like it but I have the fundamental right not to be harassed by them and feel secure in my person and effects.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    <snip> Think of driving your automobile where you are required to carry your driver's license while doing so, and present it to a LEO if they stop your car.

    <snip> Many states require LEO's to carry their commission card when on duty, for example.
    Does your LEA require you to display your commission card (LEA ID?) to a citizen if they were to request it?

    I suspect that, your words notwithstanding, you would not disagree with having the authority to stop blue cars to conduct a license check if the authority were provided to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    Here you go

    "Following State Liquor Laws
    Special license or permit holders must follow state liquor and tobacco laws and regulations during their event. A WSLCB enforcement officer may visit a licensed event to check compliance with state liquor and tobacco laws and regulations. The license or permit must be prominently displayed at the event."

    http://liq.wa.gov/licensing/special-...es-and-permits

    and here
    "When working, all employees,
    managers and owners will have
    their MAST permit with them
    plus an acceptable piece of
    identification."

    http://ssawashington.com/wp-content/...B_Briefing.pdf
    I suspect the "with them" does not mean, or is held to be the same as, "on their person." The requirements of their job (outfit/uniform) may preclude the carry of their state issued permit/ID. But, you as a LEO have the prerogative to enforce the law as you believe it to be. The citizen has the right to file a complaint if they believe that you act unlawfully.

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Or you can thwart their enforcement by refusing to consent....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    There was a video of a shop owner trespassing a LEO from her coffee shop. He had no choice to leave. LEO's especially if they are not code enforcement LEO's cannot just decide to trespass to feel macho. Of course LEO's such as this do not usually last long because they are the jokes of their departments.

    Leave code enforcement to code enforcement, don't make a complete fool of yourself.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    There was a video of a shop owner trespassing a LEO from her coffee shop. He had no choice to leave. LEO's especially if they are not code enforcement LEO's cannot just decide to trespass to feel macho. Of course LEO's such as this do not usually last long because they are the jokes of their departments.

    Leave code enforcement to code enforcement, don't make a complete fool of yourself.
    Unfortunately in my part of woods, and in many LEO like this are no longer the "joke", I experienced first hand how quickly they will circle the wagons for their own right or wrong.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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