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Thread: HB927 Summary

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    HB927 Summary

    SUMMARY: The Conference Committee Substitute for H937 makes various changes to the firearms laws. The conference report, recommending adoption of the committee substitute bill, was adopted by the House of Representatives and the Senate on July 23, 2013.
    BILL ANALYSIS:

    Section 1 provides that a person with a concealed carry permit may have a handgun in a closed compartment in a locked vehicle that is in a parking lot owned or leased by State government.

    Section 2 makes changes to the statute prohibiting firearms on educational property to allow certain persons to possess a handgun on certain educational property under specific conditions as follows: •
    • Employees of colleges and universities, and of boarding schools, who reside on campus in a detached, single family dwelling where only they and their immediate family reside, may have a handgun on the premises of their residence. If they have a concealed carry permit, they may also keep a handgun in their locked vehicle. Private schools have the option to specifically prohibit possession pursuant to these provisions.
    • Authorizes anyone with a concealed carry permit to have a handgun in a locked vehicle on any educational property.

    Section 3 authorizes a person with a concealed carry permit to carry a concealed handgun at assemblies where an admission fee is charged and any establishment that serves alcohol unless the person in control of the premises has posted a notice prohibiting carrying a concealed handgun on the premises.

    Section 4 amends the statute creating a criminal offense for permitting young children to use a firearm. Under current law it is unlawful for anyone other than a parent, guardian, or person standing in loco parentis to permit a child under 12 to use a firearm without supervision by the parent, guardian, or person standing in loco parentis. This section requires parent or guardian permission for any person to allow a child under 12 to have access to, or possess a firearm and would require adult supervision, but the supervision could be provided by any adult with the parent or guardian's permission.

    Section 5 amends the statute that provides for an enhanced sentence when a defendant uses, displays or threatens to use or display a firearm in the commission of a felony. Current law provides an additional 60 month sentence upon conviction of a Class A through E felony. This section increases the enhancement for an A through E felony to 72 months, and would provide an enhanced sentence of 36 months for an F or G felony, and an enhanced sentence of 12 months for a Class H or I felony.

    Section 6 amends the statute designating the areas in which local governments can regulate the possession of concealed handguns by more specifically defining the term "recreational facilities" and also specifically excluding certain areas from the definition

    Sections 7 and 8 specify what mental health determinations must be transferred by the clerk of court to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) and require the transmission be done within 48 hours, excluding weekends and holidays, of receipt by the clerk of the judicial determination. The Administrative Office of the Courts shall adopt rules to ensure transmission in a uniform manner.

    Sections 9 through 11 makes changes to various statutes governing the reinstatement of the right to possess firearms after certain mental health determinations or findings and would create a process that applies to all determinations or findings. These sections make clarifying changes to several statutes.

    Sections 12 and 13 amends the statutes relating to records of concealed carry permits and sale of weapons to provide that they are not public records under the public records law. The records still remain available upon request to all State and local law enforcement agencies.

    Section 14 amends G.S. 14-269.4, which prohibits weapons on specified State property, to clarify that the current exemption for concealed carry permit holders also applies to those who are exempt from obtaining a concealed carry permit by virtue of federal law which authorizes them to carry concealed as current and retired law enforcement officers.

    Section 15 amends G.S. 14-277.2, which prohibits weapons at parades, funeral processions, picket lines, or demonstrations, to provide an exception that allows a person with a concealed carry permit to carry a concealed handgun at parades and funeral processions, so long as the person in legal possession or control of the property on which they are carrying concealed has not posted a notice prohibiting concealed handguns.

    Section 16 amends G.S. 14-415.21, which provides criminal penalties for violating the conditions of a concealed carry permit, to increase the penalty for carrying concealed on property that has a posted notice prohibiting concealed carry and for carrying concealed while consuming alcohol or with any amount of alcohol in the person's system, from a Class 2 misdemeanor to a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    Section 17.1 clarifies that the sheriffs' issue a "permit" and not a license for the purchase of a weapon described in the Article.

    Section 17.2.(a) amends the pistol permit issuance statute to:
    • Require the sheriff to cite the specific facts upon which a permit is denied, and to list the applicable law which precluded the issuance of the permit. The list of denials (with no personal identifying information) is designated a public record. The list is to be organized by the quarters of the year, showing the number of denials and the reasons in each three month period, and the list shall only be released for past, completed quarters.
    • Provide that if the clerk of superior court has received notice of a matter that disqualifies a person from obtaining a pistol purchase permit, then a record of the matter is to be reported to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).
    • Provide that there is no limitation on the number or frequency of purchase permits that may be issued, and that no other costs or fees other than the $5.00 permit fee set forth in the section may be charged.
    • Establish a requirement that the sheriff revoke a purchase permit if any event or condition occurring subsequent to the issuance would have precluded the issuance of the permit. A procedure is set forth for revoking the permit, to include written notice to the permittee and a process for appeal. A willful failure to surrender a revoked permit is designated a Class 2 misdemeanor.

    Section 17.2.(b) requires the Administrative Office of the Courts to report to the Joint Legislative Oversight Committee on Justice and Public Safety by October 1, 2013, on the progress towards implementing the requirement in Section 17.2(a) that the permit-disqualifying matters be reported to NICS, and with any recommendations for legislation relating to that requirement.

    Section 17.2.(c) sets July 1, 2014, as the effective date for clerks to report permit-disqualifying events to NICS.

    Section 17.3 requires sheriffs, no later than January 31, 2014, to determine whether any issued and unexpired permits are subject to revocation, and to immediately initiate revocation procedures. A report by the sheriffs, or the N.C. Sheriffs' Association on the sheriffs' behalf, is to be submitted to the Joint Legislative Oversight Committee on Justice and Public Safety with the results of the review no later than March 31, 2014.

    Section 17.4 amends the statute that sets forth the requirement for the keeping of a record of issued purchase permits. The record shall include if the permit has been revoked, and the date the permittee received notice of the revocation. It also provides that the record is not a public record; however, the sheriff shall make the records available upon request to any federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies and shall also make the records available to the court if the records are required to be released pursuant to a court order. Any application to a court for release of the list of permit holders and permit application information shall be by a petition to the chief judge of the district court for the district in which the person seeking the information resides.

    Section 18 makes a technical correction by deleting a reference to a repealed statute.

    Sections 19 amends the law providing for the sale of a service side arm of a deceased or retiring law enforcement officer to the retiree or a surviving family member. Prior law required the person receiving the firearm to obtain a permit. The amendment provides only that a determination be made that the person is not ineligible to own, possess, or receive a firearm under State or federal law.

    Section 20 requires a sheriff to revoke the concealed carry permit of any permittee who is adjudicated guilty of or receives a prayer for judgment continued for a crime which would have disqualified the permittee from initially receiving a permit.

    Sections 21 and 22 provide that any North Carolina district court or superior court judge, magistrate, clerk of court, or register of deeds who has a concealed handgun permit is exempt from the general prohibition against carrying a concealed weapon and from the prohibitions against carrying a weapon on certain premises or in certain circumstances.

    Section 23 allows hunting with a suppressor or other device designed to muffle or minimize the report of a firearm.

    Sections 24 and 25 amend the definition of "qualified retired law enforcement officer" as it applies to carrying a concealed handgun to make it consistent with the definition in federal law for which this definition is used and make clarifying changes.

    Section 26 creates the status offense of "armed habitual felon" that would be applicable to any person who has been convicted of or pled guilty to a prior firearm-related felony offense in which evidence of the person's use, display, or threatened use or display of a firearm was needed to prove an element of the felony or was needed to establish the requirement for an enhanced or aggravated sentence. The district attorney would have the discretion to charge a person who commits a second firearm-related felony as an armed habitual felon. The bill provides for the defendant to be charged separately for the principal firearm-related felony and for the status offense of armed habitual felon. The person would first be tried for the principal firearm-related felony, and the status offense would not be revealed to the jury unless the person is found guilty of the principal firearm-related felony. If the person is found guilty of the principal felony, the armed habitual felon charge would then be presented to the jury. If the jury finds the defendant is an armed habitual felon, the defendant would be sentenced as a Class C felon – unless the principal firearm-related felony was a Class A, B1, or B2 felony. A person sentenced as an armed habitual felon would receive a minimum term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years; the sentence could not be suspended, and the defendant could not be placed on probation. When sentencing a person for the status offense of armed habitual felon, the conviction used to establish the person's status as an armed habitual felon would not count towards the person's prior record level. Sentences imposed for armed habitual felon status would run consecutively with, and begin at the expiration of, any sentence already being served by the defendant.

    Section 27 requires that when a defendant is found guilty of a felony offense, the presiding judge must determine whether the defendant used or displayed a firearm while committing the felony. If the judge makes that determination, that fact must be included when entering the judgment imposing the sentence for the felony conviction.

    Section 28 provides the effective dates: Sections 1 through 6, 14 through 16, 18, 21, 23, 25, and 26 of this act become effective October 1, 2013, and apply to offenses committed on or after that date. Section 17.3 and the effective date section are effective when they become law. Section 27 of the act becomes effective October 1, 2013, and applies to any judgment entered for a felony conviction on or after that date. Except as otherwise provided in the act, the remainder of the act becomes effective October 1, 2013. Prosecutions for offenses committed before the effective date of this act are not abated or affected by this act, and the statutes that would be applicable but for this act remain applicable to those prosecutions.

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    Regular Member Jamesm760's Avatar
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    Section 3 authorizes a person with a concealed carry permit to carry a concealed handgun at assemblies where an admission fee is charged and any establishment that serves alcohol unless the person in control of the premises has posted a notice prohibiting carrying a concealed handgun on the premises.
    I thought that it didn't specify wether you had to carry concealed or not for that one ^
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    To provide that a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit may do all of the following: Have a concealed handgun in a locked vehicle in a state government parking lot, have a concealed handgun in a locked compartment in a vehicle on educational property, and carry a handgun into an assembly where an admission fee is charged or an establishment where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed, or at a parade or funeral procession, unless the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a notice prohibiting the carrying of handguns on the premises

    that's my interpretation too. must have a permit, but doesn't have to be concealed.
    Last edited by sageone; 08-01-2013 at 08:55 AM.

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    Regular Member REDFIVE48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sageone View Post
    To provide that a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit may do all of the following: Have a concealed handgun in a locked vehicle in a state government parking lot, have a concealed handgun in a locked compartment in a vehicle on educational property, and carry a handgun into an assembly where an admission fee is charged or an establishment where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed, or at a parade or funeral procession, unless the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a notice prohibiting the carrying of handguns on the premises

    that's my interpretation too. must have a permit, but doesn't have to be concealed.
    Careful Sage, it is very specific that the handgun must be concealed at a parade or funeral.

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    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDFIVE48 View Post
    Careful Sage, it is very specific that the handgun must be concealed at a parade or funeral.
    You're gonna have to show that because the way I read it, it is only stating that a CHP is required to carry in those places. There is no mention of carry method.

  6. #6
    Regular Member REDFIVE48's Avatar
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    Re: HB927 Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by dmatting View Post
    You're gonna have to show that because the way I read it, it is only stating that a CHP is required to carry in those places. There is no mention of carry method.
    Ok, guess I'm the only one who read it:

    SECTION 15. G.S. 14-277.2 is amended by adding a new subsection to read:
    "(d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to concealed carry of a handgun at a parade or funeral procession by a person with a valid permit issued in accordance with . . .

    The language is different to the section dealing with restaurants that serve alcohol or assemblies where admission is charged, there they aren't specific to the method of carry.
    Last edited by REDFIVE48; 08-01-2013 at 10:26 PM.

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    It only applies to CC, if OC is not mentioned there is no change to OC. OC remains as it was prior.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Patriot View Post
    It only applies to CC, if OC is not mentioned there is no change to OC. OC remains as it was prior.

    That's how I read it too...this still remains unchanged:

    § 14‑277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.
    (b) For the purposes of this section the term "dangerous weapon" shall include those weapons specified in G.S. 14‑269, 14‑269.2, 14‑284.1, or 14‑288.8 or any other object capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death when used as a weapon.
    (c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to a person exempted by the provisions of G.S. 14‑269(b) or to persons authorized by State or federal law to carry dangerous weapons in the performance of their duties or to any person who obtains a permit to carry a dangerous weapon at a parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration from the sheriff or police chief, whichever is appropriate, of the locality where such parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration is to take place. (1981, c. 684, s. 1; 1983, c. 633; 1993, c. 412, s. 2; c. 539, s. 174; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1997‑238, s. 4.)
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatting View Post
    You're gonna have to show that because the way I read it, it is only stating that a CHP is required to carry in those places. There is no mention of carry method.
    A CHP is a permit to carry concealed....there is no permit to OC.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Patriot View Post
    A CHP is a permit to carry concealed....there is no permit to OC.
    You are partly correct...OC does not require a permit at a parade, it is illegal unless you are a participant.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I think this is going to have to be decided in court. A CHP is clearly for concealed handgun carry, so if OC is a illegal act then it would be up to a court to interpret whether a privilege given for a concealed handgun permit that is for concealed carry would also include OC, unless spelled out in the law. I believe there will be arrests, and I believe the writers/lobbyists intentionally left it vague.

    The law still covers the restaurant giving permission, as long as they declare a event. The best way would be to ask the restaurant to give permission to carry OC.

    One of the problems I have with the law is sidewalk restaurants that serve alcohol. A person could be walking along the sidewalk and get arrested while open carrying. The whole law is stupid, CHP who wanted to carry in restaurants already were, everybody knows it. People were CCing in alcohol serving restaurants even before there was a CHP law.

    The result of this law will be more signs posted everywhere.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 08-03-2013 at 06:27 PM.
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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I think this is going to have to be decided in court. A CHP is clearly for concealed handgun carry, so if OC is a illegal act then it would be up to a court to interpret whether a privilege given for a concealed handgun permit that is for concealed carry would also include OC, unless spelled out in the law. I believe there will be arrests, and I believe the writers/lobbyists intentionally left it vague.

    The law still covers the restaurant giving permission, as long as they declare a event. The best way would be to ask the restaurant to give permission to carry OC.

    One of the problems I have with the law is sidewalk restaurants that serve alcohol. A person could be walking along the sidewalk and get arrested while open carrying. The whole law is stupid, CHP who wanted to carry in restaurants already were, everybody knows it. People were CCing in alcohol serving restaurants even before there was a CHP law.

    The result of this law will be more signs posted everywhere.
    I think you are right. I just don't think that the "extras" that the GA has "given" to CHP holders will pass strict scrutiny if this is challenged. I don't really see how NC can possibly argue (successfully) that a CHP holder is sooo much "safer" to be allowed to carry in more places than any other person who can legally carry in the state. They did a background check? Not much more involved than just getting a PPP. They took a "class"? They could teach all but the range time with a .pdf from the AG's website. The range time? (*SNICKER*)

    It should be interesting given the recent cases (Heller, McDonald, Black, Bateman, etc) ... I just don't see the state winning this one. How can they justify prohibiting someone without a CHP from carrying at a parade or funeral?? Where is the logic? Furthermore...I still don't see where the local governments should even be allowed to prohibit carry anywhere but a correction facility or courtroom...IMO.
    Last edited by carolina guy; 08-04-2013 at 01:55 AM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    You are partly correct...OC does not require a permit at a parade, it is illegal unless you are a participant.
    How so...where am I partly incorrect?

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Patriot View Post
    How so...where am I partly incorrect?
    At a parade...no permit is required to OC...that is correct. The reason is that it is currently illegal to OC at a parade unless you are a participant and allowed by the organizer to OC.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    i have a need to find out more about the suppressers in hunting. there are a few people from other states/countries wanting to know more. could you good folks comment on this

    Section 23 allows hunting with a suppressor or other device designed to muffle or minimize the report of a firearm.

    Thanks Chris
    Last edited by papa bear; 08-07-2013 at 11:58 AM.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    At a parade...no permit is required to OC...that is correct. The reason is that it is currently illegal to OC at a parade unless you are a participant and allowed by the organizer to OC.
    This is what you disagreed with: "A CHP is a permit to carry concealed....there is no permit to OC."

    How is that incorrect?

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    i have a need to find out more about the suppressers in hunting. there are a few people from other states/countries wanting to know more. could you good folks comment on this

    Section 23 allows hunting with a suppressor or other device designed to muffle or minimize the report of a firearm.

    Thanks Chris
    SECTION 23. G.S. 113-291.1(c) reads as rewritten:
    "(c)
    It is a Class 1 misdemeanor for any person taking wildlife to have in his the person's possession any:
    (1)
    Firearm equipped with a silencer or any device designed to silence, muffle, or minimize the report of the firearm. The firearm is considered equipped with the silencer or device whether it is attached to the firearm or separate but reasonably accessible for attachment during the taking of the wildlife.

    (2)
    Weapon of mass death and destruction as defined in G.S. 14-288.8, other than a suppressor or other device
    designed to muffle or minimize the report of a firearm that is lawfully possessed by a person in compliance with 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 §§ 5801-5871.


    The text in purple was removed from the law, the underlined text was added.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Thanks XD. i will assume this means any time. i still will have to check with the wildlife regs to make sure
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Patriot View Post
    This is what you disagreed with: "A CHP is a permit to carry concealed....there is no permit to OC."

    How is that incorrect?
    Sounds like we are just going around and around on this. Under the old law, "normal mortals" could not carry (CC or OC) at a parade. Under the new law, "slightly elevated mortals" with a CHP are allowed to CC at a parade, but "normal mortals" and the "slightly elevated mortals" are NOT allowed to OC.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDFIVE48 View Post
    Ok, guess I'm the only one who read it:

    SECTION 15. G.S. 14-277.2 is amended by adding a new subsection to read:
    "(d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to concealed carry of a handgun at a parade or funeral procession by a person with a valid permit issued in accordance with . . .

    The language is different to the section dealing with restaurants that serve alcohol or assemblies where admission is charged, there they aren't specific to the method of carry.
    My bad. I usually try to read these things a little more carefully, but there was so much crap in that bill about other stuff that I probably glazed over it by the time I got there.

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    Regular Member REDFIVE48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatting View Post
    My bad. I usually try to read these things a little more carefully, but there was so much crap in that bill about other stuff that I probably glazed over it by the time I got there.
    I hear you! I had to filter out the noise in the bill to get to the parts that were important, then pay real close attention to those sections. It makes me wonder if they purposely worded the sections differently or was it an oversight and they actually wanted the restaurant and admission section to also read concealed carry of a handgun? I'm guessing that they did want specifically limited to concealed carry, but didn't reconcile the wording in each section to ensure uniformity.

    Should make for an interesting update to the pamphlet
    Last edited by REDFIVE48; 08-08-2013 at 10:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REDFIVE48 View Post
    I hear you! I had to filter out the noise in the bill to get to the parts that were important, then pay real close attention to those sections. It makes me wonder if they purposely worded the sections differently or was it an oversight and they actually wanted the restaurant and admission section to also read concealed carry of a handgun? I'm guessing that they did want specifically limited to concealed carry, but didn't reconcile the wording in each section to ensure uniformity.

    Should make for an interesting update to the pamphlet
    I just got done looking at the bill a lot closer and going back and forth between the referenced sections and such. What got me to really get into it is that (on another forum) there are a bunch of people wanting standardized signage law now that they will be able to carry into Applebees. Their gripe is that they could get hit with a Class 1 misdemeanor if they're caught carrying in a place that has a conspicuous sign posted against carrying there. The problem is that, prior to HB937, they would have gotten hit with a Class 2 misdemeanor for doing the same thing at any other conspicuously posted private location but no one was bitching about that. On top of it all, the law already says that you can lose your CHP if you violate any terms of Article 54B - and they only have complaints now that they can get into the Lonestar. It is somewhat disingenuous, if you ask me.

    For citing purpose...

    Punishments for misdemeanors:
    http://www.nccourts.org/Courts/CRS/C...hmentchart.pdf

    14-415.11 section c subsection 8, paraphrased by me reads:
    a [concealed handgun] permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun on any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

    14-415.11 is part of Article 54B and another part of that article is 14-415.18(a)(4) which is paraphrased as:
    The sheriff of the county where the permit was issued or the sheriff of the county where the person resides may revoke a permit subsequent to a hearing for the violation of any of the terms of this Article

    and 14-415.21(b) is what already had them at a Class 2 misdemeanor for carrying concealed where it was posted conspicuously.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    How many actually arrests have been made on carrying concealed in a posted business? Or a business that serves alcohol, without a charge for another crime?
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 08-08-2013 at 04:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    Sounds like we are just going around and around on this. Under the old law, "normal mortals" could not carry (CC or OC) at a parade. Under the new law, "slightly elevated mortals" with a CHP are allowed to CC at a parade, but "normal mortals" and the "slightly elevated mortals" are NOT allowed to OC.
    Yeah! I noticed you going in circles. Where in my post that you quoted did I refer to a parade or any other placed. I merely posted: "A CHP is a permit to carry concealed....there is no permit to OC."

    You are changing the dynamics and then disagreeing with yourself.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    How many actually arrests have been made on carrying concealed in a posted business? Or a business that serves alcohol, without a charge for another crime?

    Excellent question...my guess is VERY very few, if any.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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