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Thread: Misleading sign at Fair Oaks Hospital

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    Regular Member keymo71's Avatar
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    Misleading sign at Fair Oaks Hospital

    Was taking one of the kids to an appt at a medical office building at the hospital today and noticed this interesting sign at the door...

    It appears to reference some VA law on trespass. The code section was unfamiliar to me, but the Google seems to indicate this reference actually comes from TEXAS law! Am I missing something or what here?


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    I do recall Thirty Ought Six as a Texas statute. Who is the hospital's owner/holding company and where are they incorporated?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member keymo71's Avatar
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    Misleading sign at Fair Oaks Hospital

    Good question Nightmare! According to their website they are based in Falls Church as a Virginia non-profit...but I am sure someone bigger owns them.


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    Regular Member keymo71's Avatar
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    Misleading sign at Fair Oaks Hospital

    Forgot to mention...the sign only forbids concealed carry (citing invalid VA law), so open carry must be welcome!


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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keymo71 View Post
    Forgot to mention...the sign only forbids concealed carry (citing invalid VA law), so open carry must be welcome!


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    I wonder if David works there

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    Just there to scare off the ignorant...

    It references "License To Carry", not Concealed Handgun Permit. Definitely not Virginia Law or Virginia compliant. Copied from Texas is indeed a good guess.
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  7. #7
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Yes, that is a Texas sign. Texas code section 30.06 provides the exact text and even letter size that is required for such a sign to legally prohibit firearms. Remember, Texas is NOT an open carry state, so there is NO open carry in Texas.

    Web page offering "Texas legal" sign information. Also a list of "unfriendly" places.

    This sort of thing infuriates me. What moron thinks Texas law has even the most remote application in Virginia? People have literally fought wars over that.

    TFred

    ETA: Not to beat up on that well-dead horse, but THIS is what makes Texas different from Virginia. In Texas, if they properly display this code-specified sign, it is actually against the law for you to carry on those premises. In Virginia, it is not the carrying that is against the law, but trespassing if you are asked to leave and you do not.

    ETA(2): This is where I would contact the local Commonwealth's Attorney and inform them of this sign. Here's why: This private company is USING the force of LAW to impose their private policy on citizens. If I were a local CA this would PI** me off to no end. They are literally wielding the power of the CA to privately direct the actions of their customers. There should be a law against doing that.
    Last edited by TFred; 07-30-2013 at 01:16 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Yes, that is a Texas sign. Texas code section 30.06 provides the exact text and even letter size that is required for such a sign to legally prohibit firearms. Remember, Texas is NOT an open carry state, so there is NO open carry in Texas.

    Web page offering "Texas legal" sign information. Also a list of "unfriendly" places.

    This sort of thing infuriates me. What moron thinks Texas law has even the most remote application in Virginia? People have literally fought wars over that.

    TFred

    ETA: Not to beat up on that well-dead horse, but THIS is what makes Texas different from Virginia. In Texas, if they properly display this code-specified sign, it is actually against the law for you to carry on those premises. In Virginia, it is not the carrying that is against the law, but trespassing if you are asked to leave and you do not.

    ETA(2): This is where I would contact the local Commonwealth's Attorney and inform them of this sign. Here's why: This private company is USING the force of LAW to impose their private policy on citizens. If I were a local CA this would PI** me off to no end. They are literally wielding the power of the CA to privately direct the actions of their customers. There should be a law against doing that.
    I think Texas also allows you to shoot trespassers.
    That would be a good thing!

    Trespassers, dog hunters and other such low life criminals should be shot. We need a law to that effect.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Yes, that is a Texas sign. Texas code section 30.06 provides the exact text and even letter size that is required for such a sign to legally prohibit firearms. Remember, Texas is NOT an open carry state, so there is NO open carry in Texas.

    Web page offering "Texas legal" sign information. Also a list of "unfriendly" places.

    This sort of thing infuriates me. What moron thinks Texas law has even the most remote application in Virginia? People have literally fought wars over that.

    TFred

    ETA: Not to beat up on that well-dead horse, but THIS is what makes Texas different from Virginia. In Texas, if they properly display this code-specified sign, it is actually against the law for you to carry on those premises. In Virginia, it is not the carrying that is against the law, but trespassing if you are asked to leave and you do not.

    ETA(2): This is where I would contact the local Commonwealth's Attorney and inform them of this sign. Here's why: This private company is USING the force of LAW to impose their private policy on citizens. If I were a local CA this would PI** me off to no end. They are literally wielding the power of the CA to privately direct the actions of their customers. There should be a law against doing that.
    A couple of things, TFRED.

    If you did contact the local CA, s/he would likely advise the facility that their sign doesn't carry the same weight here as it might in Texas, and that referencing TX law doesn't really tell VA residents anything useful. S/he might also advise them to put up a sign that simply says "Firearms carry prohibited". It's hard to be physically present in VA and simultaneously violate a TX law that requires physical presence there.

    The parent of this facility (corporation) may be registered with the VA SCC as a foreign corporation and/or the subsidiary may show the particulars of the parent in their VA SCC filing.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Regular Member keymo71's Avatar
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    Misleading sign at Fair Oaks Hospital

    The specific address of the building in question is:

    3620 Joseph Siewick Drive
    Fairfax, VA 22033


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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Not only is it the Texas 30.06 law, the sign does not comply with the posting requirements of that law.

    (B) a sign posted on the property that:
    (i) includes the language described by
    Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
    (ii) appears in contrasting colors with
    block letters at least one inch in height; and
    (iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner
    clearly visible to the public.
    Two out of three is not quite enough. Letters on clear glass are not contrasting colors. Transparency does not contrast with anything.

    However, what this post really needs is Nelson Muntz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdCUpiI1MSA

    stay safe.
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Carry On.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Was a postcard really necessary for this?

    Now, they'll change it to a plain jane "no guns allowed" sign and we've lost the benefit of the humor of their silly Texas sign.

    I would have just let sleeping dogs lie.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Was a postcard really necessary for this?

    Now, they'll change it to a plain jane "no guns allowed" sign and we've lost the benefit of the humor of their silly Texas sign.

    I would have just let sleeping dogs lie.
    Porch dogs don't bother nobody ifn you don'ts kicks 'em
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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I guess they just don't want Texans carrying in their facility?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Was a postcard really necessary for this?

    Now, they'll change it to a plain jane "no guns allowed" sign and we've lost the benefit of the humor of their silly Texas sign.

    I would have just let sleeping dogs lie.
    I think that this was a missed opportunity. Imagine the local news showing up because several concerned citizens wanted to know why a local hospital was on its own applying Texas laws rather than Virginia laws in the hospital? What will that mean to Virginians? How does that impact the quality of healthcare, in a hospital that refuses to even know and apply Virginia law? And it would have been sweet when they rolled their news truck they encountered concerned citizens standing outside, pondering what other Texas laws might apply.

    Could have made for a very interesting "nothing else on the news today" kind of story that would have made them look like id-ee-uts....who then will have to explain that they don't believe in constitutional rights either.

    I'm only kinda kidding....
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Dog Hunters?

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I think Texas also allows you to shoot trespassers.
    That would be a good thing!

    Trespassers, dog hunters and other such low life criminals should be shot. We need a law to that effect.
    I did not know that the hunting of dogs was such a big problem in Virginia.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I'm with ProShooter on this one. The fact that the sign obviously (well, obviously to everybody except the hospital and their security and legal staff) refers to a Texas statute creates just enough ambiguity to make the sign worth less than congealed spit regarding enforcability.

    Based on personal experience I am here to tell you that being the one standing up in court waiting for a judge to say saying "Not Guilty" is not fun - but there are times when getting to that point is funnier than a barrel full of monkeys. This has great potential for being in that category.

    Pointing out the deficits and deficiencies ahead of time changes the chances for amusement.

    stay safe.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I did not know that the hunting of dogs was such a big problem in Virginia.
    Sorry, wrong name. Ditch Targets
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-31-2013 at 05:25 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member keymo71's Avatar
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    Misleading sign at Fair Oaks Hospital

    I am with Skid n this one...the sign only says concealed carry is not wanted...


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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Was a postcard really necessary for this?
    I think so.. It just helps explain how stupid their sign is..

    Signs also don't have the force of law.. I never read them.. even if they are on the front door. At a hosiptal I am more concerned with my ailment or my loved one.. that I don't read/look for signs.. and can articulate that as well.. heck.. this post of me SAYING so could be part of my defense.. They STILL would have to ask me to leave.

    I have two friends that work there as well. They say that security either secures firearms or sends them home with whomever the owner designates.

    No "minds" are going to be changed at a hospital (like we just did at a single owner Greene Turtle).. so sending the postcard does not matter.. except to me.

    It's fun and amusing for me.. I have been sending them for years and KNOW that they get passed around, copied, looked at, saved, made fun of, etc. I even had a POSTAL employee call me and say "right on".. I can''t say who or where I am but was sorting the mail and had to let you know I loved your card!

    Your opinion may vary.
    Carry On.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    The I's have it!

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    The I's have it!
    Ha.. the I's have nothing. The postcard was sent.. this is not a democracy. I does not matter if any of you agree with me or my methods.
    Carry On.

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  24. #24
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    The only thing missing from your note was:

    "Here's your sign..."



    TFred

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Ha.. the I's have nothing. The postcard was sent.. this is not a democracy. I does not matter if any of you agree with me or my methods.


    Uh...Ed, the I's are you!
    and the "Me's" count as I's
    Count em.

    I think so.. It just helps explain how stupid their sign is..

    Signs also don't have the force of law.. I never read them.. even if they are on the front door. At a hosiptal I am more concerned with my ailment or my loved one.. that I don't read/look for signs.. and can articulate that as well.. heck.. this post of me SAYING so could be part of my defense.. They STILL would have to ask me to leave.

    I have two friends that work there as well. They say that security either secures firearms or sends them home with whomever the owner designates.

    No "minds" are going to be changed at a hospital (like we just did at a single owner Greene Turtle).. so sending the postcard does not matter.. except to me.

    It's fun and amusing for me.. I have been sending them for years and KNOW that they get passed around, copied, looked at, saved, made fun of, etc. I even had a POSTAL employee call me and say "right on".. I can''t say who or where I am but was sorting the mail and had to let you know I loved your card!
    You know the old song:
    "A is for apples...I is for Ed....................."

    Now you are saying you have nothing and I does not matter.

    I'm so confused.
    Last edited by peter nap; 08-01-2013 at 10:02 AM.

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