This ruling in AZ? In AZ? yea, cops can take your guns anytime they want

davidmcbeth said:

And if PALO comes to the realization of the truth what would he do? quit his job and get a new one? ha, he would keep on doing what he is doing .. following orders to get a pension...and for a pension that may never come ...

Click to expand...

WA state's LEOFF pension system is actually damn solvent. Compared to most other states, it's pretty impressive.

That aside, I don't know what truth you are referring to. Look we wank about probs in the US and let's admit it we got plenty. And people especially LOVE to wank about cop misconduct - rare as it is, that sux too.

But let's step outside our selfish little bubbles for a sec and just recognize we are DAMN lucky to live in the USA, and on the whole we enjoy immense freedom

Especially when we are talking RKBA, "shall issue" states have been expanding tremendously in the last few decades.\

In addition to freedom, let's talk dangers. Not only can we in most states arm ourselves, not only are the laws of self defense DAMN good in my state and many others and a MILLION times better than the UK et al, but when it comes to crime, we are at a 40 yr low. Simply walking around, we are safer in regards to freedom from crime - violent and otherwise - than we've been in decades.

as a cop, i recognize the dangers. My best friend in the dept. was shot and killed by a scumbag BGD

My academy classmate and a really interesting guy was killed by a drunk driver...

http://www.odmp.org/officer/15284-police-officer-ii-gene-valgene-williams

Three guys in my former unit (15 officers total) were shot during just one warrant execution. I've been assaulted several times and had people try to shoot me (they missed) and stab me etc. But statistically speaking, and especially because of the science of officer safety, it's not a particularly dangerous job, compared to many others.

In addition, the single most dangerous activity most people will engage in - driving a car. We are at 20% of the fatality rate we had at our peak of highway danger.

These are great things. Sure, on the national level some of the war on terra stuff is ******* insane and unconstitutional BUT the chance of it affecting the average joe is infinitessimal

the average job enjoys IMMENSE freeedoms so let's stop for a second and be grateful of what we HAVE

I feel blessed to be an american and blessed to have a job that is both incredibly rewarding as well as damn fun!

cheers

Its not a LEO misconduct issue... PALO does not get it ...

lower car fatalities ? Oh, that's well worth the gov't wiretapping every phone in the USA...which has nothing to do with lower car fatalities

PALO does not look past his own windows...

A gov't employee just touting about how our rights are not being violated.

PALO should LIVE in other countries and learn how gov't tyranny starts and then pervades every aspect of a person's life.

We are at that transition now IMO....

Ah so be grateful for what we the allow us to do, because it's more than some countries have?

davidmcbeth said:

Its not a LEO misconduct issue... PALO does not get it ...

lower car fatalities ? Oh, that's well worth the gov't wiretapping every phone in the USA...which has nothing to do with lower car fatalities

PALO does not look past his own windows...

A gov't employee just touting about how our rights are not being violated.

PALO should LIVE in other countries and learn how gov't tyranny starts and then pervades every aspect of a person's life.

We are at that transition now IMO....

Click to expand...

Grow up man. Im the first to criticize and fear Obamaco and the Murderdrones, the ridiculous rubber stamp FISA secret court and a whole bunch of other scary unconstitutional stuff (mostly at the federal level) that our govt. is doing in our name.

But a cynic knows the price of everything, the value of nothing.

Yes, there is some bad **** going on but Im not going to ignore all the good stuff and all the immense strides we have made as noted above.

As americans, we enjoy some unique and wonderful freedoms - speech RKBA etc. and I think there is a time and a place to be damn thankful for what we DO have vs. complaining about the negatives.
\
Heck, as a cop in WA state, I can count literally dozens of ways that people here in WA are free from govt intrusions (searches and seizures) that are routine and legal in other states. WA, with no income tax, with a right to privacy that severely limits LEO power, and with a shall issue conceal carry and a constitutional open carry

Hey, things are good

Brighten up, sad eyes!!!
cheers

davidmcbeth said:

\
PALO should LIVE in other countries and learn how gov't tyranny starts and then pervades every aspect of a person's life.

We are at that transition now IMO....

Click to expand...

To be fair I think he has or least was stationed in other countries. In a discussion with a Punjabi acquaintance the other day he was trying to lecture me the same way that I should appreciate I am here in American and not in India.

I told him "you don't get it, we will be India if we don't stop and reverse the progression now".

And on a side note for the citizens of communist China it probably is very safe mostly. I'd rather endure the dangers of liberty over the dangers of forced safety.

sudden valley gunner said:

Ah so be grateful for what we the allow us to do, because it's more than some countries have?

Click to expand...

You are ******* right.

We DO have some immense freedoms. Heck, we can walk around with a gun strapped to our hip. How many countries allow the average joe to do that, to have PERSONAL freedom and the means to protect oneself with deadly force.

It's not all gloom and doom. You risk seriously losing all perspective if you just concentrate on the negative

And I don't know where you live, but here in WA we enjoy substantially more privacy and freedom from govt. intrusion than most other states. I could cite dozens of cases that establish a very robust right to privacy that frees us from searches and seizures that are routine and legal in most other states.

Life is GOOD

PALO said:

Heck, as a cop in WA state, I can count literally dozens of ways that people here in WA are free from govt intrusions (searches and seizures) that are routine and legal in other states. WA, with no income tax, with a right to privacy that severely limits LEO power, and with a shall issue conceal carry and a constitutional open carry

cheers

Click to expand...

Please do! Now remember my blue shirt example.....and expect me to use the angle I used there. :lol:

Side note: The fact Washington doesn't have an income tax does not mean we are taxed less, if I remember correctly we pay higher taxes than many other states, I pay more in property tax than my in laws in Hawaii pay, and my property is valued way less. 8.9 % of all my purchases are taxed too (excluding food).

sudden valley gunner said:

To be fair I think he has or least was stationed in other countries. In a discussion with a Punjabi acquaintance the other day he was trying to lecture me the same way that I should appreciate I am here in American and not in India.

I told him "you don't get it, we will be India if we don't stop and reverse the progression now".

And on a side note for the citizens of communist China it probably is very safe mostly. I'd rather endure the dangers of liberty over the dangers of forced safety.

Click to expand...

Are you sure that was me?

I don't recall the india conversation at all

And spare me the china crap. Some people just live to wallow in woe is me.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself for just a couple of friggin' minutes and give thanks for the immense freedom we DO have. Heck, as a cop I revel in all the ways I am restricted from the kind of wanton power I would have if I was a cop in most other countries compared to here.

Again, step outside and get just a little bit of positivity for once

I have done exztensive traveling but I was never "stationed" anywhere.

PALO said:

You are ******* right.

We DO have some immense freedoms. Heck, we can walk around with a gun strapped to our hip. How many countries allow the average joe to do that, to have PERSONAL freedom and the means to protect oneself with deadly force.

It's not all gloom and doom. You risk seriously losing all perspective if you just concentrate on the negative

And I don't know where you live, but here in WA we enjoy substantially more privacy and freedom from govt. intrusion than most other states. I could cite dozens of cases that establish a very robust right to privacy that frees us from searches and seizures that are routine and legal in most other states.

Life is GOOD

Click to expand...

Yes but the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, we need to not give them an inch and take back our liberties they have taken.

I won't disagree we have it better than a lot of places and do have some pride in our state and its constitution in some areas.

sudden valley gunner said:

Please do! Now remember my blue shirt example.....and expect me to use the angle I used there. :lol:

Side note: The fact Washington doesn't have an income tax does not mean we are taxed less, if I remember correctly we pay higher taxes than many other states, I pay more in property tax than my in laws in Hawaii pay, and my property is valued way less. 8.9 % of all my purchases are taxed too (excluding food).

Click to expand...

I prefer no income tax. I didn't say we were taxed less, but I think income tax is worse vs our tax structure

https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/images/LE_Legal_Update_ current thru 07 01 13.pdf
Law Enforcement Legal Update Outline: Cases on arrest, search, seizure, and other topical areas of interest to law enforcement officers; plus a chronology of independent grounds rulings under Article I, Section 7 of the Washington Constitution. By John R. Wasberg (Retired Senior Counsel, Office of the Washington State Attorney General)

That's a great resource./ I encourage recruits, especially laterals to study it because it emphasizes teh additional restrictions to WA LEOS under independent ground rulings due to our right to privacy!

Celebrate it

cheers

sudden valley gunner said:

Yes but the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, we need to not give them an inch and take back our liberties they have taken.

I won't disagree we have it better than a lot of places and do have some pride in our state and its constitution in some areas.

Click to expand...

dats all I'm saying. Recognizing the good doesn't detract one from vigilance against the bad. We have a metric buttload to celebrate.

cheers

How I see it and I include myself in this numbe,r there is a new awaking of a very old Idea. And people are educating and learning about common law, what a government should and shouldn't be under natural law, how government has as Jefferson warned grown toward tyranny, how courts and prosecutors and yes law enforcement are complicit with these erosions of liberty. They want liberty all of it not a little better than UK, they don't want a government that says a CPL shall be issued if you are approved, they want that uninfringed fundamental right it is a substantial difference to realize you are granted no right than to just accept and be grateful you are allowed to exercise a right.


My quote of the day.....(not really topic oriented but can fit)

It is perfectly self-evident where there is no legal right to resist the government there can be no legal liberty. -Lysander Spooner

PALO said:

dats all I'm saying. Recognizing the good doesn't detract one from vigilance against the bad. We have a metric buttload to celebrate.

cheers

Click to expand...

Agreed. :lol:

PALO said:

Grow up man. Im the first to criticize and fear Obamaco and the Murderdrones, the ridiculous rubber stamp FISA secret court and a whole bunch of other scary unconstitutional stuff (mostly at the federal level) that our govt. is doing in our name.

But a cynic knows the price of everything, the value of nothing.

Yes, there is some bad **** going on but Im not going to ignore all the good stuff and all the immense strides we have made as noted above.

As americans, we enjoy some unique and wonderful freedoms - speech RKBA etc. and I think there is a time and a place to be damn thankful for what we DO have vs. complaining about the negatives.
\
Heck, as a cop in WA state, I can count literally dozens of ways that people here in WA are free from govt intrusions (searches and seizures) that are routine and legal in other states. WA, with no income tax, with a right to privacy that severely limits LEO power, and with a shall issue conceal carry and a constitutional open carry

Hey, things are good

Brighten up, sad eyes!!!
cheers

Click to expand...

So, where is your outrage about being enslaved? Enslaved through inflation, enslaved through having your earnings stolen from you and given to the government (yes guys I am going there but not going deep), what about your boss not following the law? How many IRS agents have you and/or your office assisted in seizing the property of a citizen, without a court order (warrant) to do so? Did you know that if you helped the IRS seize property, without a court order, that it's a felony in Washington state?

As far as "good stuff" going on. Is it okay to kill 20 innocent people to catch one bad guy? Catching a criminal is a good thing you know.... So how much "bad $$$$" has to happen before you become outraged no matter how much "good" comes of it?

Freedom1Man said:

So, where is your outrage about being enslaved? Enslaved through inflation, enslaved through having your earnings stolen from you and given to the government (yes guys I am going there but not going deep), what about your boss not following the law? How many IRS agents have you and/or your office assisted in seizing the property of a citizen, without a court order (warrant) to do so? Did you know that if you helped the IRS seize property, without a court order, that it's a felony in Washington state?

As far as "good stuff" going on. Is it okay to kill 20 innocent people to catch one bad guy? Catching a criminal is a good thing you know.... So how much "bad $$$$" has to happen before you become outraged no matter how much "good" comes of it?

Click to expand...

Are you trolling here, or maybe having a bad experience with some of that brown acid?

Or are you super cereal?

I've never assisted the IRS. As far as I know, my boss follows the law and a great thing about my job is I can go a week w/o even seeing my boss. My office has 4 wheels. booya

I've never had to kill 20 innocents to catch a bad guy. Whoever is doing that is doing a very inefficient form of law enforcement and I suggest retraining. STAT!

Being OUTRAGED doesn't accomplish much. There is a lot of crap my (especially federal) govt. does that I don't agree with. I work for positive change where I can. Usually, that's at the local level.

Unlike some whingers who feeel they can complain all they want but have no civic duty to effect positive change, I believe we have a duty to do so and I am involved and stuff, man!

Have a bitchen evening!

I know, I am going "there" if you know me skip this post, then back to OT.

PALO said:

Are you trolling here, or maybe having a bad experience with some of that brown acid?

Or are you super cereal?

I've never assisted the IRS. As far as I know, my boss follows the law and a great thing about my job is I can go a week w/o even seeing my boss. My office has 4 wheels. booya

I've never had to kill 20 innocents to catch a bad guy. Whoever is doing that is doing a very inefficient form of law enforcement and I suggest retraining. STAT!

Being OUTRAGED doesn't accomplish much. There is a lot of crap my (especially federal) govt. does that I don't agree with. I work for positive change where I can. Usually, that's at the local level.

Unlike some whingers who feeel they can complain all they want but have no civic duty to effect positive change, I believe we have a duty to do so and I am involved and stuff, man!

Have a bitchen evening!

Click to expand...

You were told that you had to fill out a W-4 by law and that you had to sign it. That is a Class C felony in Washington.

As far as killing 20 innocents, it was simply a number. Anything above zero is too much.

If you're stopping people for simply going over the posted speed limit then you're part of the problem.

BTW when did Washington decide to take "MPH" off of the speed limit signs ? The signs used to say "SPEED LIMIT 55 MPH," now they say "SPEED LIMIT 55." 55 what though? MPM? LYPH? KPH? What is it?

Freedom1Man said:

You were told that you had to fill out a W-4 by law and that you had to sign it. That is a Class C felony in Washington.

As far as killing 20 innocents, it was simply a number. Anything above zero is too much.

If you're stopping people for simply going over the posted speed limit then you're part of the problem.

BTW when did Washington decide to take "MPH" off of the speed limit signs ? The signs used to say "SPEED LIMIT 55 MPH," now they say "SPEED LIMIT 55." 55 what though? MPM? LYPH? KPH? What is it?

Click to expand...

I can state without hesitation that I have killed exactly ZERO innocents. I have saved several, though. Burning building, people jumping out windows, etc. - PALO to the rescue. Sw33t

I don't have a radar (or lidar) gun and thus don't do much speed enforcement. I did stop some guy not too long ago from zipping through a residential neighborhood. That's dangerous. I told him to knock it off.

I hadn't noticed that WA took the MPH off the speed limit signs. Weird. I generally drive close to the speed limit. Not a lead foot. Some people would whinge that I would get cut breaks for speeding, as a professional courtesy, but honestly I drive close to the speed limit; I've seen too much carnage on the roadways to be a speeder.

cheers

PALO said:

SNIP RAS is kind of inverse of that, in that it is accepted that many innocents will be stopped, but that the cops have a duty to investigate suspicious behavior and in many cases will either be able to establish innocence OR the cop will simply think the person is innocent when they are guilty but he has no evidence of same beyond RAS, etc.

Click to expand...

Don't y'all just love the statist justifications.

That whole rationale (bolded) falls apart as soon as citizens just exercise their 5A right to silence. The only way that rationale speciously works is because people do talk to cops during detentions. The cop is going to establish innocence! Bwahahahahahahaa!! More like he's gonna fail to move from RAS to PC if a citizen keeps his mouth shut.

And, we've all seen the Prof. Duane video, and the FlexYourRights videos. Somehow non-cop lawyer-types have lots more reasons not to talk to cops than cops have for talking to cops. Funny how that works.

I do wonder when WOTPALO (Wall-of-Text) will get around to refuting my analysis of Terry being pulled out of thin air by SCOTUS. I've invited him to do it several times now. But, of course, he's too busy writing misdirectional and evasive walls of text.

PALO said:

I can state without hesitation that I have killed exactly ZERO innocents. I have saved several, though. Burning building, people jumping out windows, etc. - PALO to the rescue. Sw33t

I don't have a radar (or lidar) gun and thus don't do much speed enforcement. I did stop some guy not too long ago from zipping through a residential neighborhood. That's dangerous. I told him to knock it off.

I hadn't noticed that WA took the MPH off the speed limit signs. Weird. I generally drive close to the speed limit. Not a lead foot. Some people would whinge that I would get cut breaks for speeding, as a professional courtesy, but honestly I drive close to the speed limit; I've seen too much carnage on the roadways to be a speeder.

cheers

Click to expand...

Please don't take much of that personally (except the speeding thing). What you did in that case was legit on the surface.

I do generalize police officers after having been harassed by King County officers, wrongfully arrested by Snohomish Deputies, threatened by Snohomish officers while in custody and co-operating (not resisting at least), been abused/harassed by Redmond PD, and locked up because of a corrupt judge in Kirkland.

So, yes, I am a bit jaded about the police. I've had fewer positive than negative encounters. So, if the shoe fits wear it otherwise it's about other officers in general.

PALO said:

I can state without hesitation that I have killed exactly ZERO innocents.

cheers

Click to expand...

And I can state that my military units have killed numerous innocents ... we get/got medals for that kinda work.

Strange huh? Some cops want to be like the military ...

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