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Thread: Vermont Open Carrier Illegally Handcuffed, Detained by Police

  1. #1
    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    Vermont Open Carrier Illegally Handcuffed, Detained by Police

    http://gunssavelives.net/blog/video-...ned-by-police/

    "Police in the area approached Severance, told him to put his hands on the police cruiser, seized his weapon, handcuffed him, and placed him the back of cruiser for at least 15 minutes."

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    Unfortunately courts have ruled that officer safety trumps personal and constitutional rights for the minimal time you are detained and unarmed.

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Re: Vermont Open Carrier Illegally Handcuffed, Detained by Police

    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    Unfortunately courts have ruled that officer safety trumps personal and constitutional rights for the minimal time you are detained and unarmed.
    Ah, but in order to be legally detained they must have RAS/PC of a crime. Without such, the cops have no authority to disarm you.

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    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

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    While I agree with you 100%, theoretical rights and laws and what actually happens in the real world are seldom aligned on this topic. The individual from the OPs story can and should file lawsuits, however I predict the statement from the pd will go something like this:

    After reviewing all the evidence, the department of internal affairs has found that the officer's actions were fully within department policies.

    Good luck getting most DAs to try and fight the good ol boys club.

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    Regular Member Suckerspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    While I agree with you 100%, theoretical rights and laws and what actually happens in the real world are seldom aligned on this topic. The individual from the OPs story can and should file lawsuits, however I predict the statement from the pd will go something like this:

    After reviewing all the evidence, the department of internal affairs has found that the officer's actions were fully within department policies.

    Good luck getting most DAs to try and fight the good ol boys club.
    Fortunately, Internal Affairs and the District Attorney will not have the final word here.
    The only people who should fear, good guys with guns, are bad guys...criminals and politicians included.
    No, I am not a policeman. I am a mercenary praying for peace on Earth.

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    How about supreme court judges:


    New Mexico Supreme Court Rules "Officer Safety" Supercedes Rights
    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-595626.html

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    Again I agree with you all 100% but I do not believe any civil or criminal lawsuits will turn out in this law abiding citizens favor...

    Unfortunate....

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    Regular Member Suckerspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    How about supreme court judges:


    New Mexico Supreme Court Rules "Officer Safety" Supercedes Rights
    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-595626.html
    Will not apply in this case.
    The only people who should fear, good guys with guns, are bad guys...criminals and politicians included.
    No, I am not a policeman. I am a mercenary praying for peace on Earth.

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    Understood its a separate state, but it is a glance at the culture of politician's agenda in America. Hopefully a ruling like this is not the end result, I wish you all well in your search for justice and right and wrong In This instance.

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    What evidence did the police have to think he was illegally carrying? No permit is requires whatsoever in the state of Vermont to carry openly or concealed. The fact they detained him was unlawful on the police's part. While I doubt there will be charges against the police I'm sure the man will have a good case to get some $$$ out of them.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattinWA View Post
    New Mexico Supreme Court Rules "Officer Safety" Supercedes Rights
    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-595626.html
    I wonder, would the reverse be true? Say you have doubts about whether a given individual is a real police officer or an impersonator...could you seize his sidearm for Citizen Safety purposes while you call dispatch and get a detailed description of what the bearer of his badge number is supposed to look like?

    Generally speaking, police rights to use force are based on the same self-defense laws and legal doctrines that apply to citizens. The main difference is that police don't automatically disqualify their actions from being self-defense by being the aggressor.

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