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This Gives Open Carry a Bad Image

celticredneck

celticredneck

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Sorry, no pics, but maybe that's a good thing. Anyhow, as I was sitting in the car waiting for my wife to purchase some things in the Dollar Store, I noticed a young Gentleman(?) enter the store. He was wearing a black bandana and his pants were down halfway to his knees, exposing about half of his underwear. I could not help but notice the butt of a revolver sticking out of his hip pocket. I verified that he was indeed carrying in that manner when he exited the store. He did pull his pants up some when he entered the store, but they were back down when he came out.
 
JohnM15A

JohnM15A

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celticredneck said:
Sorry, no pics, but maybe that's a good thing. Anyhow, as I was sitting in the car waiting for my wife to purchase some things in the Dollar Store, I noticed a young Gentleman(?) enter the store. He was wearing a black bandana and his pants were down halfway to his knees, exposing about half of his underwear. I could not help but notice the butt of a revolver sticking out of his hip pocket. I verified that he was indeed carrying in that manner when he exited the store. He did pull his pants up some when he entered the store, but they were back down when he came out.
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Is that bordering on brandishing? I would think if one is going to carry a sidearm in a pocket it should be concealed or at lease secured properly. I guess the big problem would trying to determine if he was a bad guy. Stereotyping, you bet! We all do it, we all try to figure out the good from the bad...
 
skidmark

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WalkingWolf said:
Was he breaking any laws?
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Well, according to the OP the laws of good taste might have been involved.

This is always a subject that fimnds me in great conflict - the style/fashion is not one I would want to see any spawn of mine displaying, and yet it saves the police (and thgus society) so much time and effort in chaing down and catching bad guys. More conflict because not everybody who dresses that way is a bad guy (in the criminal sense), and yet it serves as a hard-to-miss marker of those I ought to avoid on general purposes even if thy have never violated any actual criminal code.

This is an example of the same sort of stereotyping that causes many OCers to be mistaken for off-duty/plainclothes/undercover cops - because we fit the mental image someone has of what a cop looks like and provides a "safe" answer to the question of "Who does that person think they are wearing a gun <insert location and circumstances>?"

I have no shame in admitting that if I were to see someone dressed like that, carrying a gun like that, my early-warning Spider Sense would kick up a notch or two into the more-orange-than-yellow level. But I hope that I would go no further without additional information/evidence.

stay safe.
 
P

PALO

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skidmark said:
Well, according to the OP the laws of good taste might have been involved.

This is always a subject that fimnds me in great conflict - the style/fashion is not one I would want to see any spawn of mine displaying, and yet it saves the police (and thgus society) so much time and effort in chaing down and catching bad guys. More conflict because not everybody who dresses that way is a bad guy (in the criminal sense), and yet it serves as a hard-to-miss marker of those I ought to avoid on general purposes even if thy have never violated any actual criminal code.

This is an example of the same sort of stereotyping that causes many OCers to be mistaken for off-duty/plainclothes/undercover cops - because we fit the mental image someone has of what a cop looks like and provides a "safe" answer to the question of "Who does that person think they are wearing a gun <insert location and circumstances>?"

I have no shame in admitting that if I were to see someone dressed like that, carrying a gun like that, my early-warning Spider Sense would kick up a notch or two into the more-orange-than-yellow level. But I hope that I would go no further without additional information/evidence.

stay safe.
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As OCers we are tryin to win hearts and minds. Dressing the part is part of it. Of course this person is breaking no laws, but lots of ill advised behavior is still legal. We enjoy great freedoms in this country, including the freedoms to be a jackass. We also enjoy greater freedom of expression freedoms than any nation on earth. I am specificall yreferring to the fact that we don't have "hate speech" laws like most nations. Even abhorrent crap like holocaust denial that is outlawed in nation after nation, is still legal.

My point isn't that this guy is promoting an image THAT bad. It's that the standard for OCer behavior shouldn't be - "as long as no loaw is broken, it's ok". We should hold ourselves to a higher standard as ambassadors for the cause. It's perfectly legal (ample case law) to wear a shirt with the "F" word prominently displayed. Should we wear such a shirt while OCing? Imo, no

As for firearms rights, we are WINNING on the legal/constitutional front. Let's keep doing what is working, and for OCers that means promoting a respectable image, not a thuggish image.
 
WalkingWolf

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It might be just me, but I believe the image is hurt much more by nosy pushy backside of democrat mascots than how a person dresses. When I am out in public I make it a point not to judge and mind my own business.
 
color of law

color of law

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No, I'm not an ambassador of open carry. I have no obligation to dress and act in such a manner to promote a positive image of what open carriers should look like or act like. But, I do believe I have a duty to carry the torch for all our Constitutional Rights. Even those rights to wear baggy/droopy pants.

I wish all bad guys would wear baggy/droopy pants.

Don't forget how many of us were dressing at 19 years old.

When I'm involved in performing driveway auto mechanic work and I need supplies from the auto store I don't change my clothes.

How you judge my appearance is your problem.
 
MAC702

MAC702

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How someone dresses determines whether or not I will hang out with them, not whether or not they should dress that way.
 
celticredneck

celticredneck

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I never said that I didn't think he had the right to carry, just like anyone else. I just think that he presents a bad image for open carry. In particular, I do not think anyone, no matter how they are dressed should carry a gun which is just stuck in his back pocket with no kind of holster. Of course, I could see only the butt, so there might have been some type of pocket holster that I couldn't see. Or perhaps it wasn't a revolver but was instead some type of comb or other personal item which had a rounded walnut butt.
 
MAC702

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He also represents a bad image for underwear. Fruit of the Loom would not hire him as a model any more than OCDO would.

I'm not picking on the OP, just musing. I agree it's a bad image. I'm just stating my opinion that people have every right to be ugly and unfashionable. They should also absolutely expect that we will talk badly about them behind their back.

I'm more neutral on the lack of holster. Indeed, there are some pocket holsters that are completely inside the pocket, exposing the firearm the same way as if there wasn't a holster, but providing the security of a holster. Guns should be so commonplace that having one in a pocket shouldn't be viewed any more seriously than seeing a knife, a car key, or a a stick of chewing gum in a pocket. A holster is nothing more than a specialized pocket.
 
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T

thedevilrobyjohn

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henricos advice

was told by henrico police that I cannot just put a gun in my back pocket, it had to have a means of retention if it were open carried(in a pocket partially exposed as to common observation)...either retain it while oc or conceal it...didnt hassle me, just advised me. I do not carry firearms halfway in my back pocket...it was just a quick onetime thing so dont try to make me cry
 
WalkingWolf

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thedevilrobyjohn said:
was told by henrico police that I cannot just put a gun in my back pocket, it had to have a means of retention if it were open carried(in a pocket partially exposed as to common observation)...either retain it while oc or conceal it...didnt hassle me, just advised me. I do not carry firearms halfway in my back pocket...it was just a quick onetime thing so dont try to make me cry
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I don't think Virginia has such a law. Sounds like the Henrico police was blowing smoke.
 
MAC702

MAC702

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thedevilrobyjohn said:
was told by henrico police that I cannot just put a gun in my back pocket, it had to have a means of retention if it were open carried...
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I'm not an expert in Virginia, but that sounds like B***S***.

Hopefully he was just wrongly remembering something from cop school, something that applied to cops as a matter of policy.

But it's more likely he just spouts what he thinks as law.
 
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JohnM15A

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ed said:
yer kidding right?
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A little. It's a bit hard to promote 2A when folks are not responsible. Now if those pants were designed to secure a firearm then that would be acceptable. I to, if I saw such a nimrod my awareness would be heightened. If I saw a responsible look chap with an OC in a holster then I wouldn't. Is called being human...
 
MAC702

MAC702

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JohnM15A said:
A little. It's a bit hard to promote 2A when folks are not responsible. Now if those pants were designed to secure a firearm then that would be acceptable. I to, if I saw such a nimrod my awareness would be heightened. If I saw a responsible look chap with an OC in a holster then I wouldn't. Is called being human...
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Well, yes, but not all who partake are promoters, nor should they have to be.

"Responsible" is a relative term, and it would be difficult to quantify. If the gun didn't fall out during the course of his day, can you say he wasn't responsible?

I tend to take words literally. When you say "acceptable," what exactly do you mean?

But I agree that nimrods require heightened awareness. But then, so does a well dressed person standing against a column in a parking garage.
 
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