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Thread: Threaten to kill shopkeeper and burn down his business, get a vacation.

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Threaten to kill shopkeeper and burn down his business, get a vacation.

    I haven't seen this posted yet, so if I missed it, let me know.

    A guy in Arizona twice threatens to KILL the shopkeeper and burn down his business and his punishment is a two week vacation.

    I'll bet you can't guess what his job is.

    http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...-be-reinstated
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Without an explanatiojn of the underlying HR rules, the article is worthless except to do just what trhe OP has done with nit - stir up emotions

    Just to give some idea of what might have been driving the personnel action - the policy for the state agency where I was employed ties periods of suspension to periods of time recording. Had a high muckety-muck found to have done something very egregious and quite contrary to policy. As punishment they were suspended for 2 weeks.

    Foolishly (you will see why pretty soon) they appealed their suspension. And it was overturned. The HR riule sais that suspensions must be in blocks of time equal to the time reporting for pay purposes. The muckety-muck was paid based on a 30.33-day month. They could not be suspended for 2 weeks - only in increments of 30.33 chunks of time. Since the original suspension order talked about 2 pay periods (because some jerk though everybody was paid based on a 40-hour week), the appeal ended up correcting the suspension order to two pay periods totalling 60.66 days.

    But all most folks could figure out from the news report was that the muckety-muck was originally suspended for 2 weeks and had that overturened on appeal.

    stay safe.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Okay, I can understand the purity of what you are saying regarding possible failure to follow technicalities of how to do a suspension.

    Let's focus on the crime being poo-poo'd away solely as "violating policy" to warrant nothing more than demotion and suspension, now leading to a reinstatement back to full seniority.

    We have a confession of multiple murder/arson threats by an armed individual.
    Last edited by MAC702; 08-03-2013 at 08:04 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    In fact if a regular citizen said this kind of thing, we'd see it as just venting. Nobody's gonna go to that extreme.

    I had a friend say 'I'd like to punch her in the nose for doing that'. The cops were called. You think the cops would realize this is a general comment like 'smack someone silly', or 'kick someone's butt'. It's different than 'I'm going to...'.

    Yet the cops threatened to arrest the guy for that.

    Anyway, I think it was intemperate, but worthy of suspension? IDK. He's not showing good judgment for doing it twice. Anyway, if it's not illegal, he should be restricting his son not complaining at the store owner. His son will just go elsewhere to buy the stuff.

    2 cents.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Okay, I see your point. I actually did assume that the victim took this as a legitimate threat.

    While I find it difficult to envision this being hyperbole, I see that there could be a possibility.
    Last edited by MAC702; 08-03-2013 at 08:09 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Okay, I can understand the purity of what you are saying regarding possible failure to follow technicalities of how to do a suspension.

    Let's focus on the crime being poo-poo'd away solely as "violating policy" to warrant nothing more than demotion and suspension, now leading to a reinstatement back to full seniority.

    We have a confession of multiple murder/arson threats by an armed individual.
    Next week, they'll give him a commendation and a raise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Okay, I see your point. I actually did assume that the victim took this as a legitimate threat.

    While I find it difficult to envision this being hyperbole, I see that there could be a possibility.
    Times have changed. Today, mere mundanes (citizens) have been charged with making terroristic threats for similar.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I'd venture to guess, if his son legitimately had a problem, he's got a dozen contacts in his phone that he can buy from... You'd think a police veteran would know this and not be so naive as to think threatening one shop to stop selling it to him would stop his son from being able to smoke for even a 12 hour period

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I also don't know anything about the drug in question, but got the impression that it was legal drug, including sales to minors.

    Part of this impression is because why else would the father have to make illegal death threats to attempt to get it to stop?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Threaten to kill shopkeeper and burn down his business, get a vacation.

    Yawn.

    Nothing to get worked up about. It was an irate an frustrated father, going too far, but not criminally so. Were this a civilian, he would likely have been given a stern warning by the police or the legal system. Instead, he is a cop, pretty high up, so official action was taken. IMO, an appropriate level of action was taken.

    Oh, and it was a suspension, not a vacation. The title of this thread is deceptive and, IMO, dishonest.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.
    Last edited by eye95; 08-04-2013 at 08:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Yawn.

    Nothing to get worked up about. It was an irate an frustrated father, going too far, but not criminally so. Were this a civilian, he would likely have been given a stern warning by the police or the legal system. Instead, he is a cop, pretty high up, so official action was taken. IMO, an appropriate level of action was taken.

    Oh, and it was a suspension, not a vacation. The title of this thread is deceptive and, IMO, dishonest.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.
    1. Criminality. It most certainly could have been criminal. Do you know for a fact that Arizona lacks a statute against making terroristic threats? Just hunt the web for news stories of citizens charged with making terroristic threats for less.

    2. Get over yourself. When I read the title, I knew instantly what he was saying. I didn't even have to read the story to know. His use of the word vacation in that context is meant to editorialize that an official received time off for something that would be prosecuted if a mere citizen had done it. Don't blame others for your inability to distinguish factual or accurate titles from editorializing titles.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    1. Criminality. It most certainly could have been criminal. Do you know for a fact that Arizona lacks a statute against making terroristic threats? Just hunt the web for news stories of citizens charged with making terroristic threats for less.

    2. Get over yourself. When I read the title, I knew instantly what he was saying. I didn't even have to read the story to know. His use of the word vacation in that context is meant to editorialize that an official received time off for something that would be prosecuted if a mere citizen had done it. Don't blame others for your inability to distinguish factual or accurate titles from editorializing titles.


    Went to google that for my personal info....there were many to be found....

    This one in Texas made my blood boil though....http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-pol...ments-facebook
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    1. Criminality. It most certainly could have been criminal. Do you know for a fact that Arizona lacks a statute against making terroristic threats? Just hunt the web for news stories of citizens charged with making terroristic threats for less.

    2. Get over yourself. When I read the title, I knew instantly what he was saying. I didn't even have to read the story to know. His use of the word vacation in that context is meant to editorialize that an official received time off for something that would be prosecuted if a mere citizen had done it. Don't blame others for your inability to distinguish factual or accurate titles from editorializing titles.


    ++1

    This is eye95's Modus operandi. He believes that the world revolves around him. Well over 10,000 posts in 3 1/2 years, average almost 9 per day. Just one sent while on duty (on the clock for his employer) could constitute theft. Mind you, I'm not accusing him of any illegal acts. It's just a statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Went to google that for my personal info....there were many to be found....

    This one in Texas made my blood boil though....http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-pol...ments-facebook
    I came across that one back when it was fresh news.

    Thanks for reposting it. On this reading, I noticed the point about the kid's proximity to an elementary school. How many Americans do not live in proximity to an elementary school?

    And, what is the degree of proximity that counts? Five minute walk? A person could drive to an elementary school, so maybe a five minute drive? Oh, no. The people who want to prosecute these things will say that a determined mass killer would easily drive twenty minutes or more.

    How many people in this country live more than a twenty minute drive from an elementary school? Or, any school? You can bet that a determined informant would hunt up every parochial school and day care center and then say the kid could attack them because they were more convenient.

    This proximity-to-a-school business is just as much a pretext as ignoring the fact the kid wrote "j/k" for joking.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Went to google that for my personal info....there were many to be found....

    This one in Texas made my blood boil though....http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-pol...ments-facebook
    http://www.change.org/petitions/rele...cebook-comment


    August 2, 2013
    So sorry for all of you waiting to hear about Justin, but here is the update:
    Due to Justin's severe bond restrictions, he cannot live with his family. At this time he is in a temporary living situation until we can find a permanent place for him. The District Attorney is still trying to punish Justin, even though he no longer sits in her jail.
    So please, continue to visit: http://freejustincarter.org/ We are working on updating the site as well!
    Justin has his yet another pre-trial hearing on August 12th, 2013 in The New Braunfels Courthouse.
    We cannot believe that the District Attorney is continuing to pursue a case against our son for exercising his right to free speech! We haven't won yet!
    Please continue to sign the petition or direct people to it as well.
    I look forward to the day when we can declare Victory, when Justin will be free to return to his life and when the Texas justice system reforms its laws so that no other teen is held in jail for free speech on the internet.

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    Threaten to kill shopkeeper and burn down his business, get a vacation.

    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    ++1

    This is eye95's Modus operandi. He believes that the world revolves around him. Well over 10,000 posts in 3 1/2 years, average almost 9 per day. Just one sent while on duty (on the clock for his employer) could constitute theft. Mind you, I'm not accusing him of any illegal acts. It's just a statement.
    No, you are just implying that I am doing something inappropriate.

    I used to wonder why you and Werz would get into it so much. I understand now. You behave like an ass. I sympathize with Werz.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    SNIP No, you are just implying that I am doing something inappropriate.
    No. He's agreeing with me that you will go to ridiculous lengths to prove yourself right. Including the tactic of expressly terminating the discussion by announcing you are "moving on" rather than just doing so without mention. And, that you come off as self-centered in a conceited way.

    For myself, I don't see you as conceited. Yours is just rigid thinking and an unwillingness to acknowledge the legitimacy of others' ideas because you either think it implies your own ideas are wrong, or you can't tolerate the momentary destabilizing effect of a new idea.

    The upshot is that to others you look self-centered because your thinking doesn't venture far from your own viewpoint, and you use a seeming iron self-confidence to protect it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    No. He's agreeing with me that you will go to ridiculous lengths to prove yourself right. Including the tactic of expressly terminating the discussion by announcing you are "moving on" rather than just doing so without mention. And, that you come off as self-centered in a conceited way.

    For myself, I don't see you as conceited. Yours is just rigid thinking and an unwillingness to acknowledge the legitimacy of others' ideas because you either think it implies your own ideas are wrong, or you can't tolerate the momentary destabilizing effect of a new idea.

    The upshot is that to others you look self-centered because your thinking doesn't venture far from your own viewpoint, and you use a seeming iron self-confidence to protect it.
    Very enlightening insight.
    And based on the number of posts he has made, you could conclude he lacks any meaningful home life.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Very enlightening insight.
    And based on the number of posts he has made, you could conclude he lacks any meaningful home life.
    Hey! I resemble that remark!




    <How can I spin that criticism? Think, dammit, think. Light bulb!!>

    OCDO is my home.

    Last edited by Citizen; 08-04-2013 at 01:00 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Hey! I resemble that remark!




    <How can I spin that criticism? Think, dammit, think. Light bulb!!>

    OCDO is my home.

    He has posted 50% more than you. And to say the least, unlike eye95's posts, your posts have substance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Went to google that for my personal info....there were many to be found....

    This one in Texas made my blood boil though....http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-pol...ments-facebook
    A terrorist is one that does something for political gain .. a person who just blows up a bus for kicks is not a terrorist.

    So even if he was serious, its still not a terrorist threat. IMO

    That's why when a cop comes to your door the 1st question from you should be: am I under arrest? When they say no, slam the door in their face. Then they'll say "if you don't talk to us, we'll arrest you" and I laugh and laugh and laugh
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 08-04-2013 at 01:46 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    the point is if a person not hired by the government did the same thing they would have been put under the jail. there would have been no furlough, they would have been busted. probably would have lost their job too.

    hey EYE


    moving on
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Yawn.

    Nothing to get worked up about. It was an irate an frustrated father, going too far, but not criminally so. Were this a civilian, he would likely have been given a stern warning by the police or the legal system. Instead, he is a cop, pretty high up, so official action was taken. IMO, an appropriate level of action was taken.

    Oh, and it was a suspension, not a vacation. The title of this thread is deceptive and, IMO, dishonest.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-Steal-Cameras
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Hey, the title got you to read the thread. Who cares if it is accurate?
    Talk about dishonest. The Height of Hypocrisy.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-Steal-Cameras

    Talk about dishonest. The Height of Hypocrisy.
    You gotta be a little more careful, COL. Its pretty obvious that was sarcasm, not hypocrisy.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-04-2013 at 03:21 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    You gotta be a little more careful, COL. Its pretty obvious that was sarcasm, not hypocrisy.
    Dishonest sarcasm????? I can work with that.

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