Close Call

First one to complain is generally listed as the "victim" - falls under the heading of action beats reaction.

Make the call.......might save someone else from being a serious victim too.

autosurgeon said:

Because they can go to the police and say he threatened them for no reason. Happened to a friend in Wyoming.

Sent from my AOSP on geeb_att_us using Tapatalk 2

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Exactly. If you get involved in an incident, you are better off self reporting, whether or not it even rises to the threshold where the officer would write a report, you are more likely ime ceteris paribus to be given the benefit of the doubt if you self report X, then if you report X in response to somebody else claiming first that you did Y and you are on the defensive at that point. It's calle CYA and MANY people have reported stuff to me for exactly that reason.

Those of us who follow the law and do the right thing, and I assume you are in that group, need not fear people reporting to the police what we do. We need fear people falsely reporting that we did something, that we did not do.

If you OC a firearm, you should at least consider and prepare yourself for what you would do if somebody LIES and claims for example you drew your firearm and pointed it at them. It's difficult w.o witnesses to prove a negative, for instance, nad if there are no witnesses, false claims can hurt you. People get arrested and sometimes even convicted based on people who lie about an incident for whatever reason (revenge, etc.)

Personally, my defense - if there is no video or audio of the incident in question and no forensics- is my credibility. I can fall back on 20+ yrs w/o any complaint of X. I've had defense attorneys tell me they always know when they get one of my reports that it's 100% truthful. If there is exonerating evidence in their client's favor, they know I'll document it, even though it hurts the case for prosecution, because my job is to be truthful and unbiased, not to WIN a case. Heck, I've had defense attorneys tell me when their client claims X contra my claim of Y that despite their job to advocate for their client, they know damn well Y isn;'t true. That's the benefit of honesty. Engage in it for long enough and you build up a near impenetrable reputation. People will always give you the benefit of the doubt. That's a huge benefit in life.

There are few things, if anythingm, more important than your character and credibility. If I respond to a scene where I have conflicting reports, one of the first thing I do is database checks on the persons reporting. If one person has numerous convictions for crimes of dishonesty, to include false reporting, and the other has none, and there is no forensics to support or refute either story, guess who gets the benfit of the doubt? In many respects past bad acts are NOT admissible or even disclosable in a criminal trial (sometimes they are if they go towards MO or if they can be used to refute a defendant's testimony, etc.), but they are EXTREMELY relevant in offier's decision to arrest and/or file charges and in prosecutors decision whether or not to charge an individual. I have seen this countless times in the field

So, live your life clean, establish a good reputation, free from blemishes of dishonesty and hope that no nefarious souls are going to call police and make a FALSE report that you did something evil.

And imo, the single most important factor in whether people are going to do that is how you treat them. If you are polite and respectful to people, even if you are doing something they don't like, they are less likely to make a false claim against you. It's certainly worked for me. It's not FOOLPROOF, but it's highly effective. even if they are being jerks, asaultive towards you, whatever, BE THE BETTER PERSON AND TREAT THEM RESPECTFULLY. I've had guys LITERALLY thank me for being so nice to them even AFTER I h ad to use force against them (like striking them with a baton) because they know they did a bad act, but I don't pile on verbal abuse and still call them sir, etc. It makes a HUGE diference in wheether people will make false claims against you.

Again, if you carry OC, consider that false claims CAN be made against you and could put you on the defensive and could even result in an arrest or even remotely possible a conviction DESPITE the fact that you did nothing wrong.

It's a risk you assume when OCing, because a person making a claim you used the firearm incorrectly will at least have evidence that you HAD the firearm in your possession. It *is* a risk we take when OCing. It is substantially less likely to occur if you have a good rep and if you treat people kindly and respectfully

Do the right thing, treat people with respect and kindness and you are very unlikely to have to face such a horrible event, though

Grapeshot said:

First one to complain is generally listed as the "victim" - falls under the heading of action beats reaction.

Make the call.......might save someone else from being a serious victim too.

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See my other post, but sad to say that is sometimes the case. God knows though that I have frequently arrested the complaining party in an incident when it turns out THEY were the wrongful one. I get protests of "but *I* called 911. You can't arrest *me*!!!"

Au contraire mon frere.

Had one of those calls earlier this week. The RP wanted to make a complaint that a person assaulted them. Upon investigation it turned out the alleged assaulter was within his self defense rights and the accuser ... well there was PC to arrest HIM for Crim Trespass I and that is what happened.

But yea, generally speaking, you are better off telling your story as a complainant (if innocent) than telling it in response to another person trying to get you in trouble. It is given more credibility, ceteris paribus in many cases.

PALO said:

<snip>

It's a risk you assume when OCing, because a person making a claim you used the firearm incorrectly will at least have evidence that you HAD the firearm in your possession. It *is* a risk we take when OCing. It is substantially less likely to occur if you have a good rep and if you treat people kindly and respectfully

Do the right thing, treat people with respect and kindness and you are very unlikely to have to face such a horrible event, though

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100% correct on how a visibly armed citizen should comport themselves, well stated. First impressions and all that. +1 Sir.

But!!

Where OC is not made unlawful, and if a cop happens to know this, and does not witness the reported incorrect use of a firearm, then the cop should, though he rarely does, observe the MWAG and then decide their next act, under the color of law, based on their direct observation of the MWAG. Of course, if the MWAG is "reported" to have committed what amounts to a felony, in RSMo anyway, direct observation by the cop is not required and all bets are off. The innocent citizen gets proned out because it was reported that he committed what ended up being a felony.

If only a cop would make contact with the caller, gather vital information, hold the caller accountable for their allegation, before approaching the MWAG. Unless of course the cop sees the MWAG committing a felony, of course.

If the "tip" is anonymous, and stays that way, then the call should be suspect and LE should be discrete, though they rarely are.

Grapeshot said:

The problem is obvious Citizen - you don't like moderation or rules that do not fit your interpretation of what you think they should be. Interestingly enough, it is not your call. Editing posts, deleting or locking threads are tools provided by the Administrator and are subject to his review.

Attacking a Moderator for doing his job is therefore akin to attacking/insulting the Administrator - good job. There is a way to properly report improper conduct of a Moderator and it is not publicly, but you have gone that route in the past (w/o success), so does it not surprise me when you repeat your past performance. You must realize what will happen next to continuance of OT posts, right?

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I have to sadly shake my head at this response. ->

For a site that, on it's face, supports (albeit, a rather constricted view of [Being: OC over CC]) the Constitution (and yes, I know you're NOT the government (I think )), it seems quite staunch in it's defense of ONLY the opinions in which it agrees.

WTF.

I'm pretty sure (as a pro-LEO guy in general) that we've all seen tyranny of Police 'gone wild'.

Hell, that's why it took me so long to OC [and now I'm fine with it: as it seems everyone else I meet daily is as well ]... disparity of power.

Just like OC/CCW, moderators carry their weight from the Admins, BUT like a Boss vs Employee, at the end of the day, we carry the power of Life and death and that is FAR more important than a paycheck... especially a $0 paycheck.

This isn't even a Constitutional issue, inasmuch that, the vast majority here ARE pro-2A... we're also 1A. And, that becomes a problem when you suggest that we've committed some 'crime' via the temerity of challenging "the Administrator".

IMO, "Moderators" shouldn't sell out their beliefs because the "Boss" doesn't like it IF it conflicts with their own beliefs.

That said, times are tough so do what you do.

***edit***

Missed a point: I should PRIVATELY exercise my rights rather than 'filming it', so to speak.

So to speak. Indeed.

Hell, I'll go talk to the Sheriff in Henderson to air my grievances... oh wait, doesn't exist but, hey! The Admin HERE does and NO ONE should ever point out how he is wrong publicly even if it's via challenging his moderators.

Turbod'1 said:

I have to sadly shake my head at this response. ->

For a site that, on it's face, supports (albeit, a rather constricted view of [Being: OC over CC]) the Constitution (and yes, I know you're NOT the government (I think )), it seems quite staunch in it's defense of ONLY the opinions in which it agrees.

--snipped--

Just like OC/CCW, moderators carry their weight from the Admins, BUT like a Boss vs Employee, at the end of the day, we carry the power of Life and death and that is FAR more important than a paycheck... especially a $0 paycheck.

This isn't even a Constitutional issue, inasmuch that, the vast majority here ARE pro-2A... we're also 1A. And, that becomes a problem when you suggest that we've committed some 'crime' via the temerity of challenging "the Administrator".

--snipped again--

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First and foremost, OCDO is private property and "members" are guests here. The 1st Amendment does not bestow license to end run the policies of OCDO.

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I hope that my position on this is clear. Again if anyone has a problem with the rules/policies, there is a proper, acceptable procedure to seek redress. Look for and use the triangle <!> exclamation point at the bottom left of each post.

We are so far off topic for this thread that further replies of this genre will be edited/deleted.