Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30

Thread: Tacoma Public Library: Open and Concealed Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, United States
    Posts
    125

    Tacoma Public Library: Open and Concealed Carry

    Recently, I sent an email to Tacoma Public Library (TPL.) It appears that firearms were totally and completely banned (unless you were law enforcement.) This applied not only to open carriers, but concealed carry, even with a valid CPL. I challenged their police and stated it violated current Revised Code of Washington (RCW.) I pointed out this was not private property, but public property and funded by tax payer dollars. After about a month, I received a reply email from David Domkiski, from TPL system. He informed me that he bought this up in a meeting with the Board of Trustees and library staff. They determined the TPL policy regarding open and concealed carry was NOT, in fact, in compliance with current RCW and revised the policy to be so. As of Wednesday, July 17th 2013, the new policy has been amended to allow for open or concealed carry, as long as it is in accordance with current RCW.

    Thank you, David Domkiski and TPL Board of Trustees, for being open to discussion and taking the steps necessary to bring TPL Policy into alignment with current RCW.

    I have not "tested" this new policy yet, but I have confirmed (from meeting minutes, available on TPL website, this change has indeed been implemented.)

    -Rogue Reflections-

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    747
    Quote Originally Posted by RogueReflections View Post
    Recently, I sent an email to Tacoma Public Library (TPL.) It appears that firearms were totally and completely banned (unless you were law enforcement.) This applied not only to open carriers, but concealed carry, even with a valid CPL. I challenged their police and stated it violated current Revised Code of Washington (RCW.) I pointed out this was not private property, but public property and funded by tax payer dollars. After about a month, I received a reply email from David Domkiski, from TPL system. He informed me that he bought this up in a meeting with the Board of Trustees and library staff. They determined the TPL policy regarding open and concealed carry was NOT, in fact, in compliance with current RCW and revised the policy to be so. As of Wednesday, July 17th 2013, the new policy has been amended to allow for open or concealed carry, as long as it is in accordance with current RCW.

    Thank you, David Domkiski and TPL Board of Trustees, for being open to discussion and taking the steps necessary to bring TPL Policy into alignment with current RCW.

    I have not "tested" this new policy yet, but I have confirmed (from meeting minutes, available on TPL website, this change has indeed been implemented.)

    -Rogue Reflections-

    THANK you for taking action, fulfilling a civic duty, etc.

    This is (as contrasted with some people who think "it's not my job" to come forward and inform/address bad policy in govt. agencies) how we effect positive change and improve local govt.

    cheers

  3. #3
    Regular Member Knowledge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Everett, WA
    Posts
    108

    Good job

    Nice, work. I've OC in my local librarys up here in everett and never had an issue.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUJdsfp3Pp8

  4. #4
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lacey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,990
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
    http://nwfood.shelfreliance.com

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    go and check out some books about guns now ... sweet ....

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    44
    Nicely done.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410
    Bravo Zulu!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bravo-zulu.jpg 
Views:	365 
Size:	21.5 KB 
ID:	10700  

  8. #8
    Regular Member 509rifas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Yakima County
    Posts
    253
    Do you have any documentation on this? My library has the same policy, and I spoke with someone about it, who referred the question to an attorney, who said libraries can ban CC w CPL. I didn't pursue the matter, it was something that just came up in passing.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Bremerton, Washington
    Posts
    593
    simple enough have the library point out where in this RCW or other RCW they are covered

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

    If they are not able to come up with an RCW then carry, OC or CC, is legal.

  10. #10
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lacey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,990
    For Pierce County they follow state law, their rules say:

    Carrying weapons in violation of state or federal law or leaving a lawfully possessed weapon unattended.

    Displaying weapons in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

    http://www.piercecountylibrary.org/a...es-conduct.htm
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
    http://nwfood.shelfreliance.com

  11. #11
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Bremerton, Washington
    Posts
    593
    Kind of like the local "rules", they don't waste time repeating the RCW's in an attempt to make folks think firearms are illegal....

    http://www.krl.org/documents/about/p...duct_05-09.pdf
    Last edited by Vitaeus; 08-07-2013 at 09:01 PM. Reason: spelling, time for bed methinks

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,327
    While expressing your appreciation, you might as well spell the gentleman's name right: it's Domkoski. ;-)

  13. #13
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    Quote Originally Posted by 509rifas View Post
    Do you have any documentation on this? My library has the same policy, and I spoke with someone about it, who referred the question to an attorney, who said libraries can ban CC w CPL. I didn't pursue the matter, it was something that just came up in passing.
    A library, public hospital (except for their secure mental ward if they have one) none have the right to exclude a person that is carrying, licensed or unlicensed openly, or concealed with a CPL or recognized equivalent. RCW 9.41.300 very specifically states where carry can be restricted in WA. RCW 9.41.280 restricts carry in primary and secondary schools. That's all folks.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, United States
    Posts
    125

    Yes

    "Do you have any documentation on this?" I have the Email that was sent to me by the public relations officer. I also have checked their updated policies and they haev changed them. I also have OC'd in the Tacoma Public Library - Kobitech branch and had no issues.

  15. #15
    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    America
    Posts
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    For Pierce County they follow state law, their rules say:

    Carrying weapons in violation of state or federal law or leaving a lawfully possessed weapon unattended.

    Displaying weapons in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

    http://www.piercecountylibrary.org/a...es-conduct.htm
    This whole thing should have been dealt with a long time ago. About the time that I was taking care of the city codes of University Place, Buckley, Fircrest, and the ferry system I sent out a series of emails to the pierce county library administration. Here they are.


    Hi Cpl. :



    We’re just finishing the review and research that we needed to do, and are pulling it together for the Board of Trustees. We will be presenting the information to them at their November 10 Board meeting. We will include our recommendation for language changes, which we are still working on.



    I will update you the first week of November when the packet for the Board’s meeting is complete. I will follow-up with the results of the Board meeting after November 11.



    If you happen to get this and have someone else you would like me to update while you are out of contact, please let me know, otherwise I’ll continue to email you at this address. Best of luck whiel you are gone.



    -Georgia



    Georgia Lomax

    Deputy Director



    Pierce County Library System

    3005 112 ST E

    Tacoma, WA 98446

    253-536-6500, ext. 135

    www.piercecountylibrary.org



    From:
    Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:41 AM
    To: Georgia Lomax
    Subject: RE: Library code of conduct violates state law



    It's been about a month and I have not heard from you. I don't mean to be pushy but after noon today I will be out of contact for about 7 months. I just wanted to see how everything was going in regards to the policy.

    Cpl. USMC
    Velocitas, Opprimere, Violentia Opperandi



    From: glomax@piercecountylibrary.org
    To: @hotmail.com
    Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:11:03 -0700
    Subject: RE: Library code of conduct violates state law

    Dear Cpl. :



    The Library’s Executive Director has asked me to look into your concern regarding Library policies.



    I wanted to let you know that we’ve received your information and will be looking into it. It will take some time to research the issues involved. At this point I would estimate about a month for the initial review, followed by our evaluation of the initial review and presentation to the Board. This process may generate additional questions to be considered in connection with the issues that you raise, so it will take some time for a formal reply. Thank you for providing the information and citations, and I will keep you informed as we look into your issue.



    -Georgia





    Georgia Lomax

    Deputy Director



    Pierce County Library System

    3005 112 ST E

    Tacoma, WA 98446

    253-536-6500, ext. 135

    www.piercecountylibrary.org



    From:
    Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:31 PM
    To: Pierce County Library Dir
    Subject: Library code of conduct violates state law



    Dear Mr. Parikh

    I would like to bring to the libraries attention to the library code of conduct, and its violation of Washington State Law. Currently the Pierce county library code of conduct is worded: “The following behaviors and activities are not allowed: Possession of weapons. "Firearms" are defined as a weapon by RCW 9.41.010. The code of conduct is in clear violation of RCW 9.41.290 [State Preemption]: “Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.” This RCW is in reference to firearms laws. The whole RCW can be found here http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290 .Considering the fact the library system is a county funded and public resource, there would need to be a provision in RCW 9.41.300 in order to restrict firearms possession in the library. There is no exemption in RCW 9.41.300 that states a county or library system can restrict the right to carry a firearm on its grounds. Under RCW 9.41.290, the weapons section of the library code of conduct in its current verbiage is unenforceable. I would also like to direct your attention to the Washington State Attorney General's Opinion AGO 2008 No. 8 which states "RCW 9.41.290 preempts a city’s authority to enact local laws that prohibit possession of firearms on city property or in city-owned facilities." I request that you advise the board to remove or revise the referenced code in order to prevent and preclude the potential for a lawsuit from illegal citation and/or arrest in violation of state law. I look forward to hearing back from you about this issue


    Cpl. USMC
    Velocitas, Opprimere, Violentia Opperandi
    253-
    Last edited by sempercarry; 10-04-2013 at 04:07 AM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    America
    Posts
    378
    Oops...didn't read the whole thread fully. I sent a few letters to Susan Odencrantz* of the Tacoma library last year to which I got no reply. Glad to see somebody got better results.

  17. #17
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lacey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,990
    I'm not sure what the issue is? Their web sit on conduct says this:
    Carrying weapons in violation of state or federal law or leaving a lawfully possessed weapon unattended. Carrying in violaton, so as long as you are legal, and the gun stays in the holster you should be good.
    http://www.piercecountylibrary.org/a...es-conduct.htm
    Last edited by golddigger14s; 10-17-2013 at 10:52 AM.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
    http://nwfood.shelfreliance.com

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Marysville, Washington, USA
    Posts
    645
    Now if we could just do something about the Seattle Public Library Policy:

    Category E (Serious Violation Toward Person(s) or Property)
    •Possession, except by law enforcement officers, of a firearm on Library property.
    •Possession of any other dangerous weapon.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    Can you be legally ejected from a public library for engaging in behavior that is prohibited by a library policy that has been repealed by a state statute?

    If you refuse to leave, is it trespassing?

    I bet someone subjected to a trespass notice for doing so would have standing to sue...

  20. #20
    Regular Member John_Parker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Poulsbo, WA
    Posts
    3
    Just in case you hadn't seen the latest news over at TheGUNMAG:

    E-Mails Show WA Anti-Gunners Targeted Preemption, CCW
    http://www.thegunmag.com/e-mails-sho...reemption-ccw/

    ~Brian
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Parker_(captain)

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, United States
    Posts
    125

    One step at a time

    "Now if we could just do something about the Seattle Public Library Policy"

    One step at a time. With proactive patriots, things can be done.
    -Rogue-

  22. #22
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Can you be legally ejected from a public library for engaging in behavior that is prohibited by a library policy that has been repealed by a state statute?

    If you refuse to leave, is it trespassing?

    I bet someone subjected to a trespass notice for doing so would have standing to sue...
    Or bring a charge of "Coercion" against the party who has you ejected/arrested.

    ***********

    RCW 9A.36.070
    Coercion.

    (1) A person is guilty of coercion if by use of a threat he or she compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from, or to abstain from conduct which he or she has a legal right to engage in.

    (2) "Threat" as used in this section means:

    (a) To communicate, directly or indirectly, the intent immediately to use force against any person who is present at the time; or

    (b) Threats as defined in *RCW 9A.04.110(27) (a), (b), or (c).

    (3) Coercion is a gross misdemeanor.


    [2011 c 336 § 361; 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.36.070.]

    *****

    Carry a copy of this with you as well as the list of threats in RCW 9A.04.110 {Note, Section 27 reference has been changed to Section 28}

    *****
    (28) "Threat" means to communicate, directly or indirectly the intent:

    (a) To cause bodily injury in the future to the person threatened or to any other person; or

    (b) To cause physical damage to the property of a person other than the actor; or

    (c) To subject the person threatened or any other person to physical confinement or restraint; or

    **************

    I think that any ordinary person would find the threat of arrest, restraint, and confinement would qualify.

    People who work in Libraries are supposed to be able to read an the law is pretty clear.

    In WA State, a Gross Misdemeanor which doesn't have a statutory penalty can mean up to a Year in Jail and a $5,000 fine. As your Library "Shushher" if the'd like to risk this.
    Last edited by amlevin; 10-13-2013 at 11:16 AM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  23. #23
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    (3) Coercion is a gross misdemeanor.
    While you can't make a citizen's arrest for a mere misdemeanor, if they so much as touch you while ejecting you, they have breached the peace. You CAN make a citizen's arrest in Washington for a breach of the peace.
    Last edited by Difdi; 10-15-2013 at 06:33 AM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    While you can't make a citizen's arrest for a mere misdemeanor, if they so much as touch you while ejecting you, they have breached the peace. You CAN make a citizen's arrest in Washington for a breach of the peace.
    Would that be before or after you beat the snot out of them for "battery" they committed on your person?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  25. #25
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Would that be before or after you beat the snot out of them for "battery" they committed on your person?
    What battery? There is no such crime in Washington.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •